Do you believe God is limited by scientific law?

[Gustaf]

A more interesting question is whether God is limited by the laws of logic.

Sigh. See my answer to whether God is ruled by scientific law.

A more interesting question is whether God is limited by the laws of logic.

well, since the bible says it is impossible for God to lie, he is simply T=T

Why would it be impossible for God to lie?

Well, I can't answer for anyone else, but I can say what I believe. I do not believe that God is a being per se, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. "He" does not speak as we would think of it. I believe that God is coexistent with the universe; God is the totality of existence, and a metaphor thereof. God can do anything because "He" is everything; "He" knows everything because he is everywhere and has "seen" everything. (The masculine form irritates me, btw). For God to lie, that would mean the universe would have to lie. By definition, all that the universe is is true.

I don't see why my post merits a sigh. You have a specific view which is not mainstream Christian (nor mainstream monotheist). Even if it does not pose a problem for your belief it may for most people discussing the issue here.

[Alcon]

A more interesting question is whether God is limited by the laws of logic.

well, since the bible says it is impossible for God to lie, he is simply T=T

Why would it be impossible for God to lie?

Because, he is "the God of truth" (Psa 31:5; Isa 65:15)

Could be lying to you right there.  He's omnipotent, you ain't omniscient.

Ah, but you purposely forget that I have already proven him to be true:

John 3:31-34"The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit."

So, the fact that God gave me his Spirit when I believed certifies that God is truthful.  And if you go back and read my testimony (not my doctrine) of the night I was saved, you'll find that my testimony of what God did that night completely aligns with scripture, certifying that God's word is true.

Omnipotent beings can have you believe whatever they want.  That's the curious part about the "omni" in "omnipotence."  Having your own experiences conform to a text does not break you from any mortal philosophical coil, nor is it a novel experience claimed only by Christians.  If I accept your claim above theirs, either I am to believe that they are lying or that your experience fit repressively or by (unconscious?) design.

None of this certifies that God's word is true in any logical form, any more than an exciting opportunity today certified my horoscope as true.

Simply: If God couldn't fool your ass, God is not omnipotent.  You assume He did not, but you elevate this beyond simple assumption.  If God's Plan is beyond our analysis, perhaps God's plan entails pulling the wool over your eyes or the eyes of many.  It is potentially within His power, and He can modify your earthly experiences accordingly.  You may be the confidant and friend, some mid-ground, or you may just be the puppet.

[Magic 8-Ball]

If there is a god, I don't see why he has to be distinct from science in the first place.

[RI]

A more interesting question is whether God is limited by the laws of logic.

Sigh. See my answer to whether God is ruled by scientific law.

A more interesting question is whether God is limited by the laws of logic.

well, since the bible says it is impossible for God to lie, he is simply T=T

Why would it be impossible for God to lie?

Well, I can't answer for anyone else, but I can say what I believe. I do not believe that God is a being per se, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. "He" does not speak as we would think of it. I believe that God is coexistent with the universe; God is the totality of existence, and a metaphor thereof. God can do anything because "He" is everything; "He" knows everything because he is everywhere and has "seen" everything. (The masculine form irritates me, btw). For God to lie, that would mean the universe would have to lie. By definition, all that the universe is is true.

I don't see why my post merits a sigh. You have a specific view which is not mainstream Christian (nor mainstream monotheist). Even if it does not pose a problem for your belief it may for most people discussing the issue here.

Touche. I will leave the subject to those who it more pertains.

[muon2]

A more interesting question is whether God is limited by the laws of logic.

Since we understand that no system of logic can derive all truths, I think the answer is a straightforward no.

[Gustaf]

A more interesting question is whether God is limited by the laws of logic.

Since we understand that no system of logic can derive all truths, I think the answer is a straightforward no.

Ouch. Didn't expect to be Gödeld...I didn't check the link but I've studied the incompleteness theorem. I probably should have worded it differently. Does God have to follow the laws of logic (or put differently, can he break them). Of course he is not limited in the sense that he can't do things not following directly from logical laws. Not even ordinary humans are limited in that way.

[muon2]

A more interesting question is whether God is limited by the laws of logic.

Since we understand that no system of logic can derive all truths, I think the answer is a straightforward no.

Ouch. Didn't expect to be Gödeld...I didn't check the link but I've studied the incompleteness theorem. I probably should have worded it differently. Does God have to follow the laws of logic (or put differently, can he break them). Of course he is not limited in the sense that he can't do things not following directly from logical laws. Not even ordinary humans are limited in that way.

I don't think the wording helps. Logical systems (more than one set of laws is possible and reasonable) are inherently either incomplete, inconsistent, or both. When the rules of logic are used in common speech they usually refer to Aristotelian rules of logic, but there are many refinements and variations put forward over the centuries. Since there is more than one set of rules to choose from, and no way to determine a "best" set of rules, statements like "Does God have to follow the laws of logic?" are hard to ascribe meaning and the answer still comes out no.

[Gustaf]

A more interesting question is whether God is limited by the laws of logic.

Since we understand that no system of logic can derive all truths, I think the answer is a straightforward no.

Ouch. Didn't expect to be Gödeld...I didn't check the link but I've studied the incompleteness theorem. I probably should have worded it differently. Does God have to follow the laws of logic (or put differently, can he break them). Of course he is not limited in the sense that he can't do things not following directly from logical laws. Not even ordinary humans are limited in that way.

I don't think the wording helps. Logical systems (more than one set of laws is possible and reasonable) are inherently either incomplete, inconsistent, or both. When the rules of logic are used in common speech they usually refer to Aristotelian rules of logic, but there are many refinements and variations put forward over the centuries. Since there is more than one set of rules to choose from, and no way to determine a "best" set of rules, statements like "Does God have to follow the laws of logic?" are hard to ascribe meaning and the answer still comes out no.

Yes, yes. I have studied logic (although not as much as you have I'm sure) so I'm familiar with what you're saying. Still, the more basic laws of logic (close to Aristotelian logic, I guess) have intuitive appeal. That's basically what I was referring to.