Map Request: RINO-Free "Pure" Republican Party

[The Mikado]

I prefer banana ice cream but it's hard to find unless I'm getting gelato downtown. Ah, now gelato is the best...

Freedom Fighter.

I could go for some Coconut Gelato actually.

Lime gelato for me.  I never liked fruit flavors before I discovered gelato.

Is that a vanilla ice cream in a martini glass?  Is there really someone crazy enough to use ice cream in an alcoholic beverage?

[Mint]

Is that a vanilla ice cream in a martini glass?  Is there really someone crazy enough to use ice cream in an alcoholic beverage?

You haven't tried that before? It's great with a little rum or coffee liquor.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I do hope that all of you got your ice cream choices approved by Rush Limbaugh.

It won't be long before Mint listens to him, don't worry.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Don's right, of course. I'm finally starting to believe that the GOP is going to be marginalized to the South and midwest. It's not that I'm torn that Specter left, but he's just one of a bunch that are leaving the party because we are moving so far right that it's almost disgusting. Sure, it could pay off in the long run, but it scares me more than anything else.

[Mint]

I do hope that all of you got your ice cream choices approved by Rush Limbaugh.

It won't be long before Mint listens to him, don't worry.

Rush is boring, Savage is much funnier. Also Beck occasionally.

[Keystone Phil]

Don's right, of course. I'm finally starting to believe that the GOP is going to be marginalized to the South and midwest. It's not that I'm torn that Specter left, but he's just one of a bunch that are leaving the party because we are moving so far right that it's almost disgusting.

We're no further to the right than we were in 2004. Enough with the hysteria. Stop feeding into this myth.

And then you say this...

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...which, I'm sorry, makes absolutely no sense.

[nclib]

What exactly is a "moderate" anyway?

That's a great question, Rowan, and I'd be happy to answer it.

The best definition, per Wikipedia, is "a moderate is one who has firm convictions on all issues, yet some convictions fall just to the left of the spectrum and some fall just to the right (i.e. center-left and center-right)"

I agree that moderates shouldn't be frowned upon, though I will add that some people can have firm convictions on all issues, and a solid majority of those convictions fall to a certain ideological categorization without the person blindly choosing positions solely based on their ideology.

[Storebought]

This is the strangest inter-party war I've seen.

It amounts to Republican voters attempting to rid itself of all current Republican officeholders. Or, just as well, the established GOP liquidating its own voters trying to replace them with another (to paraphrase B Brecht).

I like the (wholly unrealistic) idea of a political condominium -- the "marginalized" conservative voters in the Deep South and depopulated West can run on an independent party, and the GOP can concentrate rebuilding itself outside in the Northeast/West Coast. This independent party can take a turkey hunt on all white Democrats in the South, while the Republicans replicate the "success" of Olympia Snowe throughout the rest. The two parties need never run candidates against the other, but can support each other in Congress as issues permit.

And, by the way, ice cream is disgusting. Milk was never meant to be consumed that way.

[Sam Spade]

You have to compare what the GOP base wants and what the GOP establishment wants...

1) One part of the GOP base wants to throw out all those who compromise with "the other side", which they would define as those persons who are trying to "shove" cultural "changes" down their throats.  While this is an apt description for homosexual and their activist-types, that part of the GOP base is confined to mainly Southern types, who don't like other people telling them what to do (it's in their blood). 

I'm not going to touch the cultural stuff for a moment, as my views on this tend to be different than both these groups and the others.

2) The other part of the GOP base is and has been concerned with the growing confluence of government and big business combining together to run things and save us from collapse, which is really a form of corporatism, but they attempt to call it fascism, socialism, communism or some other buzzword.  Some of these folks are the Southerners too, but tends to extend to wealthier types or folks with some type of economics knowledge.  Of course, none of them have other solutions except for "tax cuts", but most people don't have solutions. 

I relate with these guys to a certain extent because they are "on the right track".

And when I say GOP base - I really mean what you might call "conservatives".  It's a better description and it's what they would call themselves.

The GOP establishment simply wants power.

I know who will win out in the short term.  And if the economy collapses, anything can happen.  In the long term, if the Dems are dominant for a while (and the economy recovers, a condition precedent most likely), the other side will win, but not for a while yet.  It's that simple.

[Lunar]

You have to compare what the GOP base wants and what the GOP establishment wants...

1) One part of the GOP base wants to throw out all those who compromise with "the other side", which they would define as those persons who are trying to "shove" cultural "changes" down their throats.  While this is an apt description for homosexual and

Which words describe homosexuals?  "The other side" or the one shoving "changes" down their throats?  Because I think the latter is illegal without consent

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Don's right, of course. I'm finally starting to believe that the GOP is going to be marginalized to the South and midwest. It's not that I'm torn that Specter left, but he's just one of a bunch that are leaving the party because we are moving so far right that it's almost disgusting.

We're no further to the right than we were in 2004. Enough with the hysteria. Stop feeding into this myth.

And then you say this...

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...which, I'm sorry, makes absolutely no sense.

Okay, I was unclear. This problem has been growing for years now, starting with the early 1990s. Once Clinton was elected, the NE and WC suburbs began to bleed away from the GOP. Bush was able to unite them enough to win with 51% of the vote, but that didn't hold long-term. The Iraq War and economic collapse exacerbated problems for the GOP further.

I may be acting a bit extreme when I claim that we may die off. It's possible that we'll go through a period like we did post-1932, when it takes 20 or more years to get back into power.

Let's face it though. Things continue to get worse, yet Obama's approval ratings remain over 60% and the congressional Democrats are twice as popular as the Republicans. The traditional honeymoon period should be over, yet we are seeing no wavering of good will towards Obama. I obviously don't share your optimism, but I wish I did. I'm just looking at this with an honest eye.

Sure, things can change between now and 2010. I could be totally wrong and the GOP will rebound nicely, but if we are completely shut out of the NE, we'll have a hard time competing nationally.

[Keystone Phil]

Let's face it though. Things continue to get worse, yet Obama's approval ratings remain over 60% and the congressional Democrats are twice as popular as the Republicans. The traditional honeymoon period should be over,

Uh...what? No, it isn't.

 

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You just want to be a hysteric (like Don) because things aren't going your way soon enough. You're acting like children.

[Coburn In 2012]

I've been wanting to do this myself but can't devote the time to it right now.  Using the '08 (or other election) exit polls, what would happen if Limbaugh, Hannity, and Toomey got their way and all moderate Republicans were purged from the Republican Party?  What would America look like if all of us RINOs decided that we would rather deal with the left-wing whackos than the right-wing ones?  How many EV's would Obama have gotten?  How many Democratic Senators would there be if all liberals and moderates voted together for the Dem candidate?

1.  The GOP would probably lose a couple elections in the short term but then when Americans realize conservatives share their values, we would return to the days of Reagan dominence.  Good riddance to snarlin arlen.

2.  America would look like it does now, as liberals control all three branches of government and the media.  We would just have even more liberals in the tent...liberals who call themselves moderate, which is laughable.

3.   See my answer to question one.  After a few election cycles, the conservative movement would be stonger than ever.  Creme always rises to the top.

[muon2]

One place where the labels don't fit well, and where the GOP has seen its biggest losses are in the suburbs. The subrurbs were a big part of Reagan's coalition, and he knew the importance of their issues.

The biggest issues in the suburbs are what I would call quality-of-life issues. They don't like taxes, but will accept those that go to core services like safety, infrastructure, and basic education. The suburbs can deal with social change but preferably in small incremental steps. Radical change is frowned on, but so are attempts to turn back the clock. Environmentalism is important, precisely because it has a strong link to the sense of quality of life and it too is subject to the incremental approach.

I would not characterize this as liberal in the urban sense, but it doesn't find an easy expression in modern conservatism. To mount a comeback, the GOP must find a way to show how this fits within a conservative view as it had for decades.

[7,052,770]

Ben's map is just plan asinine, considering how neither GWB nor McCain could ever count Mississippi among their top 10 states by percentage...

[Devilman88]

I have a question. Did Reagan move to the left to get democrats to vote for him? No, he stood his ground and the democrats and Independents came to him. All the Republican need to do is get back to thing were. Be a Conservative party on spending and defence.

[Lunar]

I have a question. Did Reagan move to the left to get democrats to vote for him? No, he stood his ground and the democrats and Independents came to him. All the Republican need to do is get back to thing were. Be a Conservative party on spending and defence.

ENDORSED JUST LIVE IN THE 80's and ignore reality, good strategy for the GOP,

[Rob]

I have a question. Did Reagan move to the left to get democrats to vote for him? No, he stood his ground and the democrats and Independents came to him. All the Republican need to do is get back to thing were. Be a Conservative party on spending and defence.

Have you ever considered that many of those independents and Democrats who supported Reagan (pbuh) did so despite his policy positions?

[Lief 🗽]

That and America is much less white and more secular than it was in the 80s. If Dukakis had won the same percentages among demographic groups that he did in 1988 with a 2008 voting population, he would have won.

[Keystone Phil]

I have a question. Did Reagan move to the left to get democrats to vote for him? No, he stood his ground and the democrats and Independents came to him. All the Republican need to do is get back to thing were. Be a Conservative party on spending and defence.

ENDORSED JUST LIVE IN THE 80's and ignore reality, good strategy for the GOP,

Yeah because America didn't move left during the 1970s and people weren't saying stuff like REAGAN IS 2 FAR RIGHT!

[Lunar]

Oh, people were saying it.  But advocating that the GOP just stay static in its positions from thirty years ago and wait for America to accept it again is frickin' retarded.  Both parties need to evolve with the times, disagree?

Obviously the 1980 presidential election showed Americans would accept someone that, in the primaries, looked possibly unelectable.  Of course those were different times, evidenced by said person being governor of California

[Alexander Hamilton]

I'd be upset too if my party suddenly went batsh*t insane and we tried running ideologically pure far leftists and excluded anyone and everyone else out.

Your party is eating itself alive, so I don't think Don (he's certainly not one of my favorite posters by the way) is too wrong to wonder about this sort of thing.

By all means, keep Palinizing your party though, we appreciate the extra D's.

Which this guy is an expert on. He believes brother and sister should be allowed to marry.

[Scam of God]

I'd be upset too if my party suddenly went batsh*t insane and we tried running ideologically pure far leftists and excluded anyone and everyone else out.

Your party is eating itself alive, so I don't think Don (he's certainly not one of my favorite posters by the way) is too wrong to wonder about this sort of thing.

By all means, keep Palinizing your party though, we appreciate the extra D's.

Which this guy is an expert on. He believes brother and sister should be allowed to marry.

Why shouldn't they be allowed to marry? More to the point, who's to stop them? The State? But isn't that Big Gub'mint?

[pogo stick]

Is this your primary goal in life, Don Club for Growth --  to attack the "right moderate wing" of the Republican Party, rather than attacking the other party's platform and defending our own core principles?

Fixed.

If you want to complain to oblivion, why don't you just become an independent?  I'm getting sick of this, actually.

I'm getting quite sick of Obama having a free ride because we're engaging in a purity contest rather than providing an alternative vision for our country.

Oh - and Ronnie - I see you are a fellow free-trader.  Get used to being called a RINO because you don't support conspiracy theories about the "North American Union" or other such garbage.

I think it's best to ignore thel label RINO, As I am  no longer conservative apparently because I stood up for Susan Collins.

Oh and i'm a RINO becuase I support civil rights

I'm also a RINO for  hating Ron Paul

and for being Pro-Union


I'm far-right, but I don't persecute moderates for their beliefs. Yes, I'm a Palinite, but one with common sense