Opinion of Lyndon Johnson

[Gustaf]

He was very much both in my opinion. This is a good example of why HP-FF is a false dichothomy. Johnson was the embodiment of a horrible person. But he was also a freedom fighter in many respects.

[Landslide Lyndon]

He was very much both in my opinion. This is a good example of why HP-FF is a false dichothomy. Johnson was the embodiment of a horrible person. But he was also a freedom fighter in many respects.

That's exactly the reason why I think his life is prime material for a fascinating movie.
 

[opebo]

How was Iraq dumber than Vietnam? 

Because of the very different circumstances of the decision-taking?
With hindsight, Vietnam was much more... wrong.

Really?  Why?

I'd say Iraq had the oil-to-steal aspect going for it, but Vietnam had the hot hookers for the servicemen in the region (not that the big wigs cared about that).

But politically speaking, at least in Vietnam there was an extant bunch of right-wing thugs (the government of S. Vietnam) who wanted us there...  In Iraq we had to barge in without any excuse whatsoever.

[dead0man]

I'd say Iraq had the oil-to-steal aspect going for it

Has oil actually been stolen?

[opebo]

I'd say Iraq had the oil-to-steal aspect going for it

Has oil actually been stolen?

Well, you know - in theory that made Iraq a better candidate, since Vietnam had less stealable stuff.

Though obviously in any war the real object for theft is the US treasury, not the victim nation.

[minionofmidas]

How was Iraq dumber than Vietnam? 

Because of the very different circumstances of the decision-taking?
With hindsight, Vietnam was much more... wrong.

Really?  Why?

I'd say Iraq had the oil-to-steal aspect going for it, but Vietnam had the hot hookers for the servicemen in the region (not that the big wigs cared about that).

But politically speaking, at least in Vietnam there was an extant bunch of right-wing thugs (the government of S. Vietnam) who wanted us there...  In Iraq we had to barge in without any excuse whatsoever.

Different definition of "wrong"...

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Top 5 President

Lief, I always had you pegged as someone who would be anti-LBJ.  Texan pride?

[Magic 8-Ball]

HP.  Only redeeming accomplishment is the Civil Rights Act, but even that isn't enough.

[Lief 🗽]

Top 5 President

Lief, I always had you pegged as someone who would be anti-LBJ.  Texan pride?

Nah, he was just our most progressive president not named FDR. I guess Texan pride is a little bit of it, but not enough to make me like somebody (e.g. Bush and Bush Jr.).

[Governor PiT]

Top 5 President

Lief, I always had you pegged as someone who would be anti-LBJ.  Texan pride?

Nah, he was just our most progressive president not named FDR. I guess Texan pride is a little bit of it, but not enough to make me like somebody (e.g. Bush and Bush Jr.).

Bush is practically a clone of LBJ in their policies. Big Federal Government, Open Borders, Interventionist. I don't understan these liberals who hate Bush but admire LBJ. They are one in the same.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Bush is practically a clone of LBJ in their policies. Big Federal Government, Open Borders, Interventionist. I don't understan these liberals who hate Bush but admire LBJ. They are one in the same.

They aren't even close.  LBJ tried to help the poor with his policies; Bush tried to help the super-wealthy.

[Mechaman]

He was very much both in my opinion. This is a good example of why HP-FF is a false dichothomy. Johnson was the embodiment of a horrible person. But he was also a freedom fighter in many respects.

I have to agree with this statement. While I respect him greatly for his fight for Civil Rights I don't like his role in greatly expanding government and the pointless surge of troops in Vietnam. There must be a third way!

[Kaine for Senate '18]

He was very much both in my opinion. This is a good example of why HP-FF is a false dichothomy. Johnson was the embodiment of a horrible person. But he was also a freedom fighter in many respects.

I have to agree with this statement. While I respect him greatly for his fight for Civil Rights I don't like his role in greatly expanding government and the pointless surge of troops in Vietnam. There must be a third way!

Very true; that's why I usually do Positve-Neutral-Negative in my polls.

[JSojourner]

For me, the most fascinating presidential personality.
 
Epic FF for the passing of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Act. He did what was right, even though he was fully aware it would harm irreparably his party. And I agree with Hillary on that: it's because of him, more than anybody else, that Barack Obama sits in the Oval Office as we speak.

He botched Vietnam of course. But then again as one of my compatriots said ''Little men make little mistakes. Big men make big mistakes''.

P.S. Forgot to add the poll.

The Great Society was both visionary and morally correct.  His stance on Civil Rights was courageous and prescient.  Vietnam, though its roots are traced back as far as Eisenhower, can be lain on one of Lyndon's shoulders and one of Dick Nixon's.  It was a crime against humanity, regardless of how well intentioned many of its participants were.

Your use of the term "fascinating Presidential personality" couldn't be more correct, Pbx.  I am hard pressed to think of a more colorful President.  Uncouth and foul-mouthed one minute, genteel and persuasive the next.  I suspect no President would have been more interesting to watch (as a "fly on the wall") than LBJ.  I love how other pols describe getting "the treatment"....

[Хahar 🤔]

Certainly his motivations were far from pure, but the only people with pure motivations when LBJ was raised were the CPUSA, and they weren't good for a thing. Actions speak louder than motives.

FF.