16 dead after school shooting in Stuttgart, Germany

[Franzl]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/03/11/germany.school.shooting/index.html

WINNENDEN, Germany (CNN) -- A gunman dressed in military gear killed 16 people Wednesday in a shooting spree in Germany before he was shot dead by police, police spokesman Rainer Kloeller told CNN.

Tim Kretschmer, 17, began his rampage at a school where he used to be a student in Winnenden, a small town about 20 kilometers (12 miles) northeast of Stuttgart, said KIoeller, of the police in the nearby town of Waiblingen.

"The suspect broke into the school. He went into the classroom and shot wildly around himself and left the building and fled on foot," Hans Ulrich Stuiber, another police spokesman, said.

Three teachers and 10 students were killed at the Albertville-Realschule Winnenden school, Kloeller said. The shooting, which began around 9:45 a.m. (4:45 a.m. EDT), lasted about two minutes, police said. Kretschmer fired shots into three classrooms, Kloeller said.

[Keystone Phil]

Yeah, I just saw this. Horrific stuff.

[Tender Branson]

Yeah, I just saw this. Horrific stuff.

Yes, too bad that the 15th weapon in the household wasn't locked up in the safe as well ...

It's about 50 miles away from where you live - Franzl, right ?

[Franzl]

Yeah, I just saw this. Horrific stuff.

Yes, too bad that the 15th weapon in the household wasn't locked up in the safe as well ...

It's about 50 miles away from where you live - Franzl, right ?

yes, indeed. I've been in the area several times. I don't know anybody there, though, thankfully.

[afleitch]

Awful news. My heart goes out to the families.

[Boris]

another one

[Silent Hunter]

Awful news. My heart goes out to the families.

Indeed. These things are far too common- ideally they should not happen at all.

[Platypus]

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Only a matter of time before one happens here...

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Only a matter of time before one happens here...

Why? Against some polish?

Well, if that such things doesn't question the model of our societies, how it works, why it produced that, so, people would be dead for nothing.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Only a matter of time before one happens here...

Why? Against some polish?

Well, if that such things doesn't question the model of our societies, how it works, why it produced that, so, people would be dead for nothing.

No, nothing to do with race or ethnicity... I'm just reading the mood.

[Tender Branson]

The copycats are out there ... :

Police have detained at least four men in Europe over threats posted in online chatrooms following Wednesday's school shooting in Germany, reports say.

They include a 21-year-old German in Lower Saxony, and three teens in the Netherlands, France and Sweden.

Following Wednesday's school killings, Dutch authorities closed schools and child care centres in the southern city of Breda on Friday after a threat was made to carry out a shooting at an unnamed school on an internet site, Dutch media reported.

An 18-year-old man was arrested.

German police also closed a school in Ilsfed in southwestern Germany after a similar warning, and arrested a 21-year-old man in Lower Saxony over another chatroom threat.

In France, police detained an 18-year-old youth after he posted a warning of a shooting at a school in the Paris suburbs.

And Swedish police on Thursday detained a 17-year-old boy in the city of Lund who was suspected of posting a picture of himself posing with a weapon on an internet site, along with a threatening message against a high school.

The men - most of whom said the threats were meant "as a joke" - could face jail time or a fine.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7942777.stm

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

In France, police detained an 18-year-old youth after he posted a warning of a shooting at a school in the Paris suburbs.

"Le Monde" said that according to the police this case was "a joke" and that the guy hadn't any weapon, but yes he risks jail and/or money.

We already had that kind of blind killing in a school in France but as the guy had only a knife he didn't made as much damage.

Otherwise, the day before that shooting in Germany, in France, in a Parisian suburb, some guys of an area of the city entered in a school to "punish" an other guy of an "opposing" area, they were armed with iron bars and knifes and some hammers too according to some witnesses, and once in college they injured other people at random.

[Tender Branson]

78% of all Germans are now in favor of a complete gun ban in households while 20% are opposed, according to a new poll by "Emnid".

42% are in favor of locking down schools during lessons.

16% support armed security personnel at schools.

[Middle-aged Europe]

And how many people are supporting a ban on computer games?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

78% of all Germans are now in favor of a complete gun ban in households while 20% are opposed, according to a new poll by "Emnid".

42% are in favor of locking down schools during lessons.

16% support armed security personnel at schools.

Cool, luckily the society ask good questions. Damn...

[Tender Branson]

And how many people are supporting a ban on computer games?

Depends on the games I think:

Far Cry 2/Counter Strike: 70% for

Nintendogs/Spongebob: 30% for

[Tender Branson]

Merkel calls for tight gun controls

Germany's chancellor has called for greater government supervision of gun owners after a school shooting last week that killed 15 people.

The country's gun laws were already tightened after a 2002 school shooting in the eastern German city of Erfurt. But Angela Merkel said she favours further restrictions, such as unannounced visits by state authorities to ensure owners have their weapons and ammunition locked away.

"We must do everything to see to it that children do not get access to weapons," Mrs Merkel said in a radio interview.

Authorities said that Tim Kretschmer, the 17-year-old who went on a killing rampage at his former high school, used one of his father's weapons to gun down his 15 victims.

The 9mm Beretta pistol was unsecured in his father's bedroom in violation of German law.

Hundreds of people in the small German town of Winnenden, where the school shooting took place, gathered for a church service to mourn the victims.

People continued to come to the school grounds to light candles or place flowers on a makeshift memorial that has grown by the day.

Kretschmer gunned down students and teachers at his former high school before fleeing on foot and by car, killing three more people, and eventually shooting himself in the head, police said.

Police said that during their investigation of Kretschmer's computer, they found horror films, violent video games and pornography featuring bondage. Some of the images showed naked, shackled women, police said.

Four days after the blood bath, investigators are trying to determine a motive in the case.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jt_J1-0hZ8GQBu6jc2SC720sX48A

...

I strongly approve of this !

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Merkel calls for tight gun controls

Germany's chancellor has called for greater government supervision of gun owners after a school shooting last week that killed 15 people.

The country's gun laws were already tightened after a 2002 school shooting in the eastern German city of Erfurt. But Angela Merkel said she favours further restrictions, such as unannounced visits by state authorities to ensure owners have their weapons and ammunition locked away.

"We must do everything to see to it that children do not get access to weapons," Mrs Merkel said in a radio interview.

Authorities said that Tim Kretschmer, the 17-year-old who went on a killing rampage at his former high school, used one of his father's weapons to gun down his 15 victims.

The 9mm Beretta pistol was unsecured in his father's bedroom in violation of German law.

Hundreds of people in the small German town of Winnenden, where the school shooting took place, gathered for a church service to mourn the victims.

People continued to come to the school grounds to light candles or place flowers on a makeshift memorial that has grown by the day.

Kretschmer gunned down students and teachers at his former high school before fleeing on foot and by car, killing three more people, and eventually shooting himself in the head, police said.

Police said that during their investigation of Kretschmer's computer, they found horror films, violent video games and pornography featuring bondage. Some of the images showed naked, shackled women, police said.

Four days after the blood bath, investigators are trying to determine a motive in the case.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jt_J1-0hZ8GQBu6jc2SC720sX48A

...

I strongly approve of this !

I approve a tight gun control too. For example, I don't know if it had been spoken about abroad but, a few days after the shooting in Germany, a guy did one in France, in Lyon. The guy targeted mothers waiting for their kids at school. Luckily, the guy hadn't a rifle with bullits, it was something with, I don't know how it's called in English, that are some rifles that shoot a quantity of very small pieces of plumb by each shoot, that's for small game at hunting. The guy, who was with his friend, said he wanted to try his rifle.

Frankly, the main problem isn't if the gun is locked or not, that's important to pay attention to this, but it doesn't seem to be the main problem for me. Even not violent games or violent pornography.

It seems that, as serial killers, they are not nut because they are conscious of what they do, by announcing it before for example.

The problem would be more likely how the society could have made that some individuals feel authorized to kill some other individuals within this society at random? What are the mechanisms of the society that lead to such a self authorization? Why killing? Why at random? Why the most possible? All of this should question the society.

[dead0man]

Germany's already strict gun laws didn't stop this tragedy, clearly they need MORE gun laws.  And ban everything the crazy kid liked (but only the "strange" stuff, we can't ban the "normal" things he did, that would be stupid).  We can stop tragedies from happening in the future if we ban enough things.

[Bono]

Its Battle of the Somme politics.

All of the previous huge infrantry attacks failed... hmm, what we need is just an even larger infantry attack!

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Its Battle of the Somme politics.

All of the previous huge infrantry attacks failed... hmm, what we need is just an even larger infantry attack!

If that's ironical, I agree.

Germany's already strict gun laws didn't stop this tragedy, clearly they need MORE gun laws.  And ban everything the crazy kid liked (but only the "strange" stuff, we can't ban the "normal" things he did, that would be stupid).  We can stop tragedies from happening in the future if we ban enough things.

So, according to you, the point is only to ban some things?

[minionofmidas]

This things aren't frequent enough to base policy on them - insofar Deado and Bono are quite right.

The previous infantry attacks though... they failed (at their goal of, you know, gun control. Not necessarily at crime prevention) because the opponent sat on the committee that determined the targets.

[dead0man]

Germany's already strict gun laws didn't stop this tragedy, clearly they need MORE gun laws.  And ban everything the crazy kid liked (but only the "strange" stuff, we can't ban the "normal" things he did, that would be stupid).  We can stop tragedies from happening in the future if we ban enough things.

So, according to you, the point is only to ban some things?

If my options are:ban all things, ban some things or ban no things, yeah I think I, like most people, are going to pick the "some" option.  Which one would you pick?


(or there is a communication problem here...I was being very sarcastic)

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

This things aren't frequent enough to base policy on them - insofar Deado and Bono are quite right.

The previous infantry attacks though... they failed (at their goal of, you know, gun control. Not necessarily at crime prevention) because the opponent sat on the committee that determined the targets.

Well, I'm not saying we should try to begin to elaborate some policies. I just regret that debates use not to go further than "banning" "controlling", to me things are deeper than this and the exclusivity of these actions should deeper question our modern societies about how it can produces it, even if that's just say 100 people who are directly touched (dead/injured) on several millions since that appeared.

I know the question I ask are easy to ask and not to answer but I strongly think that debate should go further than guns/video games/pornography/music and so on, so much things which are anyway the produce of our society.