Bashir expels aid groups from Sudan

[Silent Hunter]

Disgusting, just disgusting. Why is this man still in power?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

He has been indicted; the time has come to sweep in, grab him, and take him to await trial.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Disgusting, just disgusting. Why is this man still in power?

Why is Burma leader still in power?

Why is Kim Jong Il still in power?

Why is Mugabe still in power?

And so on...

Maybe because the international justice court has still no police forces. Maybe because before having an efficient international justice we still need time and time and maybe cases like the one of Bechir will help on the long term in making grow the force of this justice. We'll see.

Something which is pretty cool is that the only international justice and rights that exist are based on our western principles of justice. Imagine they were based on Saudi's ones for example...

[Hash]

He has been indicted; the time has come to sweep in, grab him, and take him to await trial.

Get out of delusional fantasy Utopia land, Benny.

[dead0man]

He has been indicted; the time has come to sweep in, grab him, and take him to await trial.

Get out of delusional fantasy Utopia land, Benny.

Correct we live in the real world, where everybody knows where the bastards are at yet we all lack the balls to help the poor people in these backwater places.  If only they looked more like us or had a resource we needed.

Or I suppose we could get a heart.  Our left leaning folk are supposed to be our heart, it's too bad they've all lost their guts since the sixties.  Now we wring our hands and chat on the internet about how horrible these leaders are, yet we do nothing.  We don't even pressure our leaders to do something.  We are gutless.  We are weak.  History will look poorly on us.  We have the means to help, but we sit on our hands.  Occasionally we get together to send food or money, but we never do anything to actually help these people because to help these people we'd have to take out their horrid leadership.  We can't do that.  We've bad mouthed every western leader that's ever done it, we don't want to be in that group.  So poor people all over the world continue to be oppressed, starved and killed.  We say we care.  We obviously don't.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

He has been indicted; the time has come to sweep in, grab him, and take him to await trial.

Get out of delusional fantasy Utopia land, Benny.

Correct we live in the real world, where everybody knows where the bastards are at yet we all lack the balls to help the poor people in these backwater places.  If only they looked more like us or had a resource we needed.

Or I suppose we could get a heart.  Our left leaning folk are supposed to be our heart, it's too bad they've all lost their guts since the sixties.  Now we wring our hands and chat on the internet about how horrible these leaders are, yet we do nothing.  We don't even pressure our leaders to do something.  We are gutless.  We are weak.  History will look poorly on us.  We have the means to help, but we sit on our hands.  Occasionally we get together to send food or money, but we never do anything to actually help these people because to help these people we'd have to take out their horrid leadership.  We can't do that.  We've bad mouthed every western leader that's ever done it, we don't want to be in that group.  So poor people all over the world continue to be oppressed, starved and killed.  We say we care.  We obviously don't.

Let's imagine you're at White House. What do you do??

[Kaine for Senate '18]

He has been indicted; the time has come to sweep in, grab him, and take him to await trial.

Get out of delusional fantasy Utopia land, Benny.

Correct we live in the real world, where everybody knows where the bastards are at yet we all lack the balls to help the poor people in these backwater places.  If only they looked more like us or had a resource we needed.

Or I suppose we could get a heart.  Our left leaning folk are supposed to be our heart, it's too bad they've all lost their guts since the sixties.  Now we wring our hands and chat on the internet about how horrible these leaders are, yet we do nothing.  We don't even pressure our leaders to do something.  We are gutless.  We are weak.  History will look poorly on us.  We have the means to help, but we sit on our hands.  Occasionally we get together to send food or money, but we never do anything to actually help these people because to help these people we'd have to take out their horrid leadership.  We can't do that.  We've bad mouthed every western leader that's ever done it, we don't want to be in that group.  So poor people all over the world continue to be oppressed, starved and killed.  We say we care.  We obviously don't.

Let's imagine you're at White House. What do you do??

You grow some balls.  Then, you send in troops, capture him, and take him wherever he needs to go to await trial.

[Hash]

He has been indicted; the time has come to sweep in, grab him, and take him to await trial.

Get out of delusional fantasy Utopia land, Benny.

Correct we live in the real world, where everybody knows where the bastards are at yet we all lack the balls to help the poor people in these backwater places.  If only they looked more like us or had a resource we needed.

Or I suppose we could get a heart.  Our left leaning folk are supposed to be our heart, it's too bad they've all lost their guts since the sixties.  Now we wring our hands and chat on the internet about how horrible these leaders are, yet we do nothing.  We don't even pressure our leaders to do something.  We are gutless.  We are weak.  History will look poorly on us.  We have the means to help, but we sit on our hands.  Occasionally we get together to send food or money, but we never do anything to actually help these people because to help these people we'd have to take out their horrid leadership.  We can't do that.  We've bad mouthed every western leader that's ever done it, we don't want to be in that group.  So poor people all over the world continue to be oppressed, starved and killed.  We say we care.  We obviously don't.

Let's imagine you're at White House. What do you do??

You grow some balls.  Then, you send in troops, capture him, and take him wherever he needs to go to await trial.

Living in Utopia-delusion land must be fun. I'd like to be in your spot.

[dead0man]

I think your record player is skipping.

[k-onmmunist]

Why not make him have an 'accident'?

[The Mikado]

The worst, most disgusting, leaders of the world hide behind the shield of history to defend their own actions.  I guarantee that if you made a move on Bashir (or Mugabe, for that matter), idiots around the world would begin screaming, "imperialism" and "racism" at the top of their lungs.

Honestly, in this case, the specific Sudan instance, I'm beginning to warm to Ben's suggestion of abducting Bashir and delivering him to the Hague.  Sudan is an important country, and the world can ill-afford another Zimbabwe, especially one on as epic a scale as Sudan.  Already, the events in Western Sudan (Darfur) have destabilized Chad and CAR.  The thing that keeps me from supporting that position is that I don't think that removing Bashir from the situation would really improve matters on the ground in Sudan.  Bashir needs to pay for his crimes, but the first priority must be helping the poor, unfortunate souls of that wretched, unhappy country.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The thing that keeps me from supporting that position is that I don't think that removing Bashir from the situation would really improve matters on the ground in Sudan.  Bashir needs to pay for his crimes, but the first priority must be helping the poor, unfortunate souls of that wretched, unhappy country.

Yes, and we can see it by the title of this topic "Bashir expels aid groups from Sudan", here's the concrete result of that operation by now.

Frankly I'm happy when I hear that some big criminals are summoned in justice. But as long as we can't catch the man, the only result is his revenge on its people. That has been in the principles a big thing, in practice an huge stupidity.

In order not to be a stupidity, force had to follow the justice. But if so, that's an other thing, it would lead to open a war with a country each time justice call for its leader. And a war, you know where it begins, but you don't always know where it ends, and war as involvements in other domains of the society as the economical and social situation for a country, and for the international scale. So, calls to "go there and take him" are not that simple...

[HappyWarrior]

Why not make him have an 'accident'?

I like this idea.

[John Dibble]

He has been indicted; the time has come to sweep in, grab him, and take him to await trial.

Get out of delusional fantasy Utopia land, Benny.

Correct we live in the real world, where everybody knows where the bastards are at yet we all lack the balls to help the poor people in these backwater places.  If only they looked more like us or had a resource we needed.

Or I suppose we could get a heart.  Our left leaning folk are supposed to be our heart, it's too bad they've all lost their guts since the sixties.  Now we wring our hands and chat on the internet about how horrible these leaders are, yet we do nothing.  We don't even pressure our leaders to do something.  We are gutless.  We are weak.  History will look poorly on us.  We have the means to help, but we sit on our hands.  Occasionally we get together to send food or money, but we never do anything to actually help these people because to help these people we'd have to take out their horrid leadership.  We can't do that.  We've bad mouthed every western leader that's ever done it, we don't want to be in that group.  So poor people all over the world continue to be oppressed, starved and killed.  We say we care.  We obviously don't.

Let's imagine you're at White House. What do you do??

You grow some balls.  Then, you send in troops, capture him, and take him wherever he needs to go to await trial.

Isn't that kind of what we did with Iraq? Saddam wasn't exactly a saint given all the people he had killed. How many Iraq wars and occupations would you like to fight? In an ideal world we could get rid of every scumbag leader who oppresses his people, but overthrowing another nation's government is going to have repercussions. If you don't take the time to rebuild it then you're just going to end up with more of the same, and we've only got so many resources to do that.