Smid's Diplomacy Game Thread #2

[ilikeverin]

Inevitable, faugh!  Austrian panzers will be in Berlin by Spring.

[muon2]

Inevitable, faugh!  Austrian panzers will be in Berlin by Spring.

BTW are you prepared to issue retreat orders for Trieste?

[Јas]

Oh dear...

Germany Supply Center Watch

German Centres, Autumn 1913: 15
(Berlin, Kiel, Munich, Holland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Edinburgh, London, St Petersburg, Warsaw, Moscow, Vienna, Rome, Trieste)

Further centres required for outright win: 3

Soft Targets: Budapest, Tunis, Belgium, Paris, Brest
Moderate Targets:  Serbia, Rumania, Liverpool


I reiterate to France that if your objective is, as it appears, simply to facilitate a German victory, let us know and we can arrange that very quickly. There's no point playing out an inevitable that could take weeks when we could all enjoy getting a new game underway.

A new game would make a certain amount of sense.

FYI It's cute that you keep listing French targets , almost hopefully , but clearly an end-of-game betrayal would make no sense on my part since I'll want people to have at least a basic amount of trust in me in the following game .  I've only made one stab in these two games [and have otherwise been ridiculously loyal], England of this game, and it was mostly such a powerful stab because I had already made agreements and England had switched players in the opening stages and I was presented with a once in a Diplomacy-time opportunity...but srsly, Liverpool?  It'd take me at least five turns to get a ship up there, raising questions for five weeks as to why I even built a ship let alone keep moving it towards France haha.

Muon, I'll be building two armies in Berlin and Munich once the build orders come around, for what it's worth.  So, minimum seven turns now for Liverpool and five for Brest.

If we do start a new game, I'd like to offer switching places with Gustaf if I'm able.

Well, the real audience for the chart is France rather than anyone else - which explains much of the above. You're quite right in what you say - I don't really expect you to turn on France now - the route to victory otherwise is too easy. Had we managed to hold the allied line earlier, then maybe things would have been different.

Anyway, at this stage, I'm just really interested in what France is/has been up to. Why and for how long has aiding an outright German win been his objective?

[ilikeverin]

Inevitable, faugh!  Austrian panzers will be in Berlin by Spring.

BTW are you prepared to issue retreat orders for Trieste?

Uh, sure, A Trieste->Albania I suppose.  Disband F Adriatic, when adjustments come.

[muon2]

Inevitable, faugh!  Austrian panzers will be in Berlin by Spring.

BTW are you prepared to issue retreat orders for Trieste?

Uh, sure, A Trieste->Albania I suppose.  Disband F Adriatic, when adjustments come.

Thanks. I have the German builds, so all I need now is the French orders, since they are entitled to one build.

[dead0man]

F in Mars thank you very much sir

[muon2]

These were the adjustments for Fall 1913:

Austria: Retreat A tri -> alb

Austria: Remove F adr
France: Build F mar
Germany: Build A ber, A mun
Italy is officially eliminated with no supply centers

Here is the position to begin Spring 1914.

[muon2]

I know there has been some talk about how and when this game might wind down, but I haven't seen any unanimous agreement yet. In the meantime, I've only received one set of orders for Spring 1914. Should there be a hiatus to negotiate a conclusion?

[Lunar]

I assume so.  I haven't been preparing for this.  Otherwise, I'm sort of living in a lighthouse this weekend and could use a bit more time.

[Јas]

I know there has been some talk about how and when this game might wind down, but I haven't seen any unanimous agreement yet. In the meantime, I've only received one set of orders for Spring 1914. Should there be a hiatus to negotiate a conclusion?

I don't see why a hiatus is necessary or useful. dead0 simply hasn't responded to any messages PMs or public posts for quite some time now. Clearly he's not up to talking. Of course, it's his prerogative not to engage - but in the circumstances, pausing the game won't get us anywhere. Might as well play it out...

Or, of course, I'm also open to a declaration that those powers who didn't submit orders should be considered to have resigned

[ilikeverin]

Yes!  And all their properties confiscated by the Italian state.

[muon2]

After consultation with Smid, I am prepared to declare the game a draw if all four powers agree. If there is no agreement on a draw I will move forward with the orders for just the two powers that I have received for this turn and the other two powers will issue holds for all units.

The deadline for a response is 24 hours from now, and it can be posted or sent as a PM.

[Јas]

Fine by me - agree.

[minionofmidas]

I suppose orders sent in during these 24 hours also will count ?

[muon2]

I suppose orders sent in during these 24 hours also will count ?

No, the decision was made after 24 hours had already elapsed past the due time. I will either move ahead with the two powers that I have or accept a declaration of a draw.

[ilikeverin]

Yay draw!

[Lunar]

Eh, I was away this weekend as I said. 

A draw is fine, I think we knew how this game was likely to end, heh.  Maybe I should have pushed for a surrender

[muon2]

Peace is declared in May 1914.

Since I have three agreements to a draw and a no response, I hereby declare the game a 4-power draw.

The final count of centers is
Austria - 4
France - 10
Germany - 15
Turkey - 5

[Smid]

Muon, thanks heaps for filling in for me when I wandered of to get married. It's most appreciated! You did a great job of continuing the adjudication through to the end!

[muon2]

Eh, I was away this weekend as I said. 

A draw is fine, I think we knew how this game was likely to end, heh.  Maybe I should have pushed for a surrender

I think your key to a push for surrender was ideal in Spring 1908. It might have been the key turn of the game. In Fall 1907 Russia was eliminated and Turkey and Austria swapped centers to position themselves for a defensive line in the east. Once that line was set there was no option other than a slow push to gain control of the waters around Italy. As we saw, that took another 5 years.

This was the position in Spring 1908.


A bold attack by Germany in the east might have gone like this:
vie->bud, gal S vie->bud
tyr->tri
mun->tyr
ber->sil
ukr->rum
mos->ukr, war S mos->ukr
stp->mos

This would gain bud unless Austria A rum->gal, but even then the most likely outcome is a lot of bounces, or perhaps a swap of tri for vie.

Against the actual orders submitted, these orders would have taken both bud and tri, but lost vie and left tyr open from a bounce. Even though the Austrians were in vie, Germany would have ample reinforcements in mun, sil, and war to stop any advance. The units in tri and bud would prevent any Austro-Turkish line from forming while the reinforcements advanced in the next two turns. My guess is that Germany would have been in position to win without a stab of France in three or four years.

[muon2]

Muon, thanks heaps for filling in for me when I wandered of to get married. It's most appreciated! You did a great job of continuing the adjudication through to the end!

It's been a pleasure. I hope the honeymoon atmosphere lasts a long time.

[Lunar]

I was just coming to this thread to thank Muon and Smid.  Sorry it fizzled out this weekend but I was busy and I had to go on a retreat for a new job and was out.

Thanks for all the hard work, and good game y'all

And to your strategy suggestion Muon: Yes, you're right.  It took me a while to figure out the proper way to crack the Austrian shell...most strategies on the internet strongly oppose the notion of Germany invading Austria and my own intuition took a while to kick in...certainly wasn't working in 1908

[Silent Hunter]

Thank you to Smid and muon2 for their excellent umpiring. It's been a great game.

[Јas]

Many thanks to muon and Smid for their administration of the game, and credit to Lunar on a well crafted effort.

On the above map, the southern alliance was painfully aware of Budapest's vulnerability and it came as quite a surprise to see it fail to change hands that turn. We made what turned out to be a silly mistake later on in the Mediterranean which I think turned out to be the proverbial straw.

[muon2]

I was just coming to this thread to thank Muon and Smid.  Sorry it fizzled out this weekend but I was busy and I had to go on a retreat for a new job and was out.

Thanks for all the hard work, and good game y'all

And to your strategy suggestion Muon: Yes, you're right.  It took me a while to figure out the proper way to crack the Austrian shell...most strategies on the internet strongly oppose the notion of Germany invading Austria and my own intuition took a while to kick in...certainly wasn't working in 1908

That's often the problem with generic strategies in Diplomacy or politics, they fail to account for unique situations. Though a German attack on Austria is usually ill advised, this was a rare case where Russia was gone, England going, and France an ally. And it's those rare cases that upset conventional wisdom.