Iraq War: is Bush team competent?

[CollectiveInterest]

If you think the Iraq War is being run competently, explain how it would be worse if it were run incompetently.

If you think the Iraq War is being run incompetently, explain how it would be better if it were run competently.

[A18]

If it were being run incompetently, 13 of 15 precincts would not be peaceful.

[CollectiveInterest]

Got a reference for this claim?

Things seem pretty bad according to this, http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_09/004789.php

[A18]

That would be the other two.

[CollectiveInterest]

That would be the other two.

Philip, you've been fooled. What's your reference for the claim everything is hunky dory in 13 or 15 Iraqi provinces.

[A18]

Not everything I learn is online. Go search CNN if you don't believe me.

[CollectiveInterest]

Not everything I learn is online. Go search CNN if you don't believe me.

Here's a recent CNN article, http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/28/iraq.abizaid/index.html

Here's a quote:

<i>Last week, CNN Correspondent Diana Muriel described how the violence in Iraq was hindering the reconstruction effort.

"There is very much a sense that no one is safe and everyone should be reviewing their security measures," she said.
</i>

Philip, you going to change your mind about the Iraq War being a good idea now? Or will you continue to let your ideology trump the real world facts?

[A18]

That would be those 2 precincts.

CNN = Communist News Network. I don't read it, you do.

[CollectiveInterest]

That would be those 2 precincts.

CNN = Communist News Network. I don't read it, you do.

So you are admitting you don't have any basis for claiming that 13 of 15 Iraqi precincts were calm? You said it. It's not based in fact. It's just something that it would be nice for your ideology if it was true.

Namecalling. Wow, that's class. Way to have an intelligent discussion of the issues.

What's your beef with CNN? CNN brings you information that refutes your ideology? Maybe you should consider the possibility your ideology is wrong.

[A18]

No, I'm telling you I don't have a link to an online site, and I'm not going to bother looking for one.

CNN: wow, it's violent here

Yeah, that definitely means no part of the country can be peaceful.

What namecalling?

[CollectiveInterest]

What namecalling?

"Communist News Network"

[nomorelies]

Iraq is a disaster because of bushs arrogant policies.

[CollectiveInterest]

Did the debate make you more or less confident in Bush's leadership?

[PBrunsel]

The war is being as ran as well as any could do. These Iraqui resistance terrorists just won't come out and fight like real soldiers do.

[CollectiveInterest]

The war is being as ran as well as any could do. These Iraqui resistance terrorists just won't come out and fight like real soldiers do.

Yeah, that was unforeseen. </sarcasm off>

[PBrunsel]

The war is being as ran as well as any could do. These Iraqui resistance terrorists just won't come out and fight like real soldiers do.

Yeah, that was unforeseen. </sarcasm off>

My comment was somewhat stupid above. I think that any reconstruction in any nation is difficult, no matter who's in charge.

[The Duke]

The war is being as ran as well as any could do. These Iraqui resistance terrorists just won't come out and fight like real soldiers do.

Yeah, that was unforeseen. </sarcasm off>

My comment was somewhat stupid above. I think that any reconstruction in any nation is difficult, no matter who's in charge.

Your comment wasn't stupid, it was dead on.  These guys set up IEDs, blow up police recruitment centers, and hide in mosques.  Everytime we drag them into open battle, even urban battle, we kill them at a rate of 100-1 (like in Najaf a few weeks ago).

************************************************************

Anyway, I said that the Bush people are more incopetent than not.  My evidence?  Ask yourself how many soldiers would be killed if we tried to take Fallujah.  Now ask yourselves how many soldiers have been killed because we didn't take Fallujah.  Now you see.

At least he gets the big picture right.

[Donovan]

If Bush's team was competent we would not have so many soldiers dead.

1000 troops dead. When was the last time we had that many soldiers killed, was it Vietnam?

[opebo]

A muslim, particularly an arab muslim country, without a dictator slaughtering people continually = chaos.

These people's natural tendency towards horrific theocracy can only be fought by killing and torturing them wholesale.

[CollectiveInterest]

A muslim, particularly an arab muslim country, without a dictator slaughtering people continually = chaos.

These people's natural tendency towards horrific theocracy can only be fought by killing and torturing them wholesale.

I'm not endorsing your premise, but why not just leave Saddam Hussein as the oppressor? Why spend $200-500 billion putting our brutal leadership in charge?

[opebo]

A muslim, particularly an arab muslim country, without a dictator slaughtering people continually = chaos.

These people's natural tendency towards horrific theocracy can only be fought by killing and torturing them wholesale.

I'm not endorsing your premise, but why not just leave Saddam Hussein as the oppressor? Why spend $200-500 billion putting our brutal leadership in charge?

I thought Saddam Hussein was perfect for his setting.  However he wasn't staying under our thumb quite like he should.

I think the invasion was a misunderstanding - our enemy is religious, not secular.  

[freedomburns]

If it were being run incompetently, 13 of 15 precincts would not be peaceful.

This is a fat load of crap.  There is no peace in any of the provinces, especially outside of Baghdad.  The US exerts little if any control outside of it's fortified bases and "green zones".  There is no peace or safety for any Iraqis or Americans in ANY of the provinces.  If you truly believe the hype the Neo-cons sell that 13 out of 15 provinces are peaceful and could hold elections, I have a bridge I want to sell you.  It's in Brooklyn.

freedomburns

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Democracy is a fairly resilient institution if given a decent chance.  I doubt that by next January that there will be a single province of Iraq that will be totally peaceful, but most of Iraq and possibly all of Iraq will be peaceful enough to allow credible democratic elections to be held.  Iraq is neither in as good a shape as Bush claims, nor in as bad a shape as many of those who oppose Bush claim.  It certainly is in a worse shape than it should be.

[The Duke]

Philip, it 15 of 18 not 13 of 15 provinces.

FB, its true that there's violence throughout the country because there's no meaningful police force to control rampant crime, and what police there are are often very bribeable.  However, organized politically motivated violence is in fact largely confined to 3 provinces.

[CollectiveInterest]

Philip, it 15 of 18 not 13 of 15 provinces.

FB, its true that there's violence throughout the country because there's no meaningful police force to control rampant crime, and what police there are are often very bribeable.  However, organized politically motivated violence is in fact largely confined to 3 provinces.

What is the basis of this claim? Could you provide a link to support your statement? Or is it just bullsh**t Bush supporters tell each other so they have a lie to cling to so they won't have to consider the truth?