Gaza population increased 40% from 1997-2007

[© tweed]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7891434.stm

about triple the worldwide growth rate.

[jokerman]

This is why Gaza is so unstable.  Want of material necessities precipitates violence.  Or perhaps it is conflict that is fueling the population growth.  Either way the two reinforce each other in an exponentially increasing trend towards chaos.

[Lunar]

Remember too that the Arab population of Israel is growing at very similar rates (unless something has changed recently).

I've said before in threads that Israel has to choose two of the following three:
1. The territory of Israel
2. A Jewish state
3. A full and complete democracy with democratic and human rights bestowed upon its citizenry


If you think about it, they can have any combination of two, but three is impossible.

[jokerman]

I'm becoming futher convinced that a two-state solution is not the answer, but rather a single Palestinian democracy with liberty for all peoples is the only way to quell the conflict.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I'm becoming futher convinced that a two-state solution is not the answer, but rather a single Palestinian democracy with liberty for all peoples is the only way to quell the conflict.

Or birth control.  Look at Iran.  Give it 15 years.. .Iran will be a stable state with a drastically reduced extremist component as their society ages faster than almost any other country in the world.

[dead0man]

Since the West Bank seems to have figured out how to not toss rockets every second Tuesday, how about a 3 state solution?  Let Gaza rot until they figure it out too.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I'm becoming futher convinced that a two-state solution is not the answer, but rather a single Palestinian democracy with liberty for all peoples is the only way to quell the conflict.

I agree, but I don't think that is conceivable. Either way, I don't consider a Palestinian state to be a viable economic entity (or even a viable political one, countries with discontinous geography have rarely worked in recent times, just look at Pakistan and Bangladesh).

[Silent Hunter]

Since the West Bank seems to have figured out how to not toss rockets every second Tuesday, how about a 3 state solution?  Let Gaza rot until they figure it out too.

Fatah would never accept it.

[bgwah]

But this is a reason the Jews don't want a one state solution--they know very well they'll become a minority in time at this rate.

As for a two state solution, as others have already mentioned, I think a three state solution (Israel, Gaza, West Bank) would preferable to a two state solution (Israel and Palestine).

[Tetro Kornbluth]

But this is a reason the Jews don't want a one state solution--they know very well they'll become a minority in time at this rate.

As for a two state solution, as others have already mentioned, I think a three state solution (Israel, Gaza, West Bank) would preferable to a two state solution (Israel and Palestine).

Gaza is ridiculously overpopulated and has no natural resources worth speaking of. It would essentially have to be propped up from the outside (and that is assuming that political stability can be assured - which is doubtful, not with so much guns lying around after the sapping of revolutionary energy against Israel - while the poverty, etc would remain.)

[bgwah]

But this is a reason the Jews don't want a one state solution--they know very well they'll become a minority in time at this rate.

As for a two state solution, as others have already mentioned, I think a three state solution (Israel, Gaza, West Bank) would preferable to a two state solution (Israel and Palestine).

Gaza is ridiculously overpopulated and has no natural resources worth speaking of. It would essentially have to be propped up from the outside (and that is assuming that political stability can be assured - which is doubtful, not with so much guns lying around after the sapping of revolutionary energy against Israel - while the poverty, etc would remain.)

Gaza would basically be a city-state.

Maybe Egypt can just take it back.

[Lunar]

But this is a reason the Jews don't want a one state solution--they know very well they'll become a minority in time at this rate.

They've essentially chosen a hybrid of options #1 and #3 in my third post on this thread, in terms of what they're willing to sacrifice

[Tender Branson]

And ? Arizona did as well from 1990-2000 and again this decade ...

[Silent Hunter]

Gaza on its own isn't viable. Unless it fancies becoming the next Dubai, without the help of oil.

[opebo]

I've always thought there was a great economic opportunity for a city-state where 'everything goes' - drugs, prostitution, no 'age of consent', etc.  Gambling and other boring vices as well.  I'll bet a city state like that could thrive in our repressive world.

But regarding the 'problems in Gaza', these would be extant even if the population were declining - these problems are caused by the Isrealies who imprison people in Gaza.

[jokerman]

I've always thought there was a great economic opportunity for a city-state where 'everything goes' - drugs, prostitution, no 'age of consent', etc.  Gambling and other boring vices as well.  I'll bet a city state like that could thrive in our repressive world.

What?  Gaza is a theocracy, if anything.

[Bono]

Aside from some contraband with Egypt, mostly of weapons, and of international aid, Gaza has no trade with the outside world. According to our resident protectionists like jfern, it should be booming.

[Beet]

I've always thought there was a great economic opportunity for a city-state where 'everything goes' - drugs, prostitution, no 'age of consent', etc.  Gambling and other boring vices as well.  I'll bet a city state like that could thrive in our repressive world.

What?  Gaza is a theocracy, if anything.

Mostly because of the conflict with Israeli. Non-monarchial Sunni states are generally pretty tolerant.

[jokerman]

I've always thought there was a great economic opportunity for a city-state where 'everything goes' - drugs, prostitution, no 'age of consent', etc.  Gambling and other boring vices as well.  I'll bet a city state like that could thrive in our repressive world.

What?  Gaza is a theocracy, if anything.

Mostly because of the conflict with Israeli. Non-monarchial Sunni states are generally pretty tolerant.

Because of its control by Hamas, which is a social organization as much as a military organization (and seperating cause and effect in issues of poverty and conflict is dificult anyways).  Any kind of Gaza in its current socioeconomic situation would be dominated by Hamas or a like organization, funded chiefly by Saudis who espouse their own radically purist form of islam.

[Beet]

I've always thought there was a great economic opportunity for a city-state where 'everything goes' - drugs, prostitution, no 'age of consent', etc.  Gambling and other boring vices as well.  I'll bet a city state like that could thrive in our repressive world.

What?  Gaza is a theocracy, if anything.

Mostly because of the conflict with Israeli. Non-monarchial Sunni states are generally pretty tolerant.

Because of its control by Hamas, which is a social organization as much as a military organization (and seperating cause and effect in issues of poverty and conflict is dificult anyways).  Any kind of Gaza in its current socioeconomic situation would be dominated by Hamas or a like organization, funded chiefly by Saudis who espouse their own radically purist form of islam.

Not necessarily. Hamas's position in the polls was slipping until the Israeli offensive.

Also, Gaza wouldn't be in its current socioeconomic situation for long if not for the Israeli conflict. It had a mini-boom in the 1990s that was choked off.

[opebo]

I've always thought there was a great economic opportunity for a city-state where 'everything goes' - drugs, prostitution, no 'age of consent', etc.  Gambling and other boring vices as well.  I'll bet a city state like that could thrive in our repressive world.

What?  Gaza is a theocracy, if anything.

Right, I know.  I was just fantasizing about what would work to make an economically viable city-state sans all resources/assets.  But this one contains Muslims, so not so great a contender.

[jokerman]

I've always thought there was a great economic opportunity for a city-state where 'everything goes' - drugs, prostitution, no 'age of consent', etc.  Gambling and other boring vices as well.  I'll bet a city state like that could thrive in our repressive world.

What?  Gaza is a theocracy, if anything.

Mostly because of the conflict with Israeli. Non-monarchial Sunni states are generally pretty tolerant.

Because of its control by Hamas, which is a social organization as much as a military organization (and seperating cause and effect in issues of poverty and conflict is dificult anyways).  Any kind of Gaza in its current socioeconomic situation would be dominated by Hamas or a like organization, funded chiefly by Saudis who espouse their own radically purist form of islam.

Not necessarily. Hamas's position in the polls was slipping until the Israeli offensive.

Also, Gaza wouldn't be in its current socioeconomic situation for long if not for the Israeli conflict. It had a mini-boom in the 1990s that was choked off.

Right, but the effects of the conflict (that is, the massive number of refugees) won't be mitigated by a simple cease-fire.  It's going to take a whole new strategy to create a stable, prospering state out of Gaza, including opened trade, large amounts of western aid, and resettling at least half of the 1,000,000 refugees there.

[Beet]

I've always thought there was a great economic opportunity for a city-state where 'everything goes' - drugs, prostitution, no 'age of consent', etc.  Gambling and other boring vices as well.  I'll bet a city state like that could thrive in our repressive world.

What?  Gaza is a theocracy, if anything.

Mostly because of the conflict with Israeli. Non-monarchial Sunni states are generally pretty tolerant.

Because of its control by Hamas, which is a social organization as much as a military organization (and seperating cause and effect in issues of poverty and conflict is dificult anyways).  Any kind of Gaza in its current socioeconomic situation would be dominated by Hamas or a like organization, funded chiefly by Saudis who espouse their own radically purist form of islam.

Not necessarily. Hamas's position in the polls was slipping until the Israeli offensive.

Also, Gaza wouldn't be in its current socioeconomic situation for long if not for the Israeli conflict. It had a mini-boom in the 1990s that was choked off.

Right, but the effects of the conflict (that is, the massive number of refugees) won't be mitigated by a simple cease-fire.  It's going to take a whole new strategy to create a stable, prospering state out of Gaza, including opened trade, large amounts of western aid, and resettling at least half of the 1,000,000 refugees there.

Of course, more than a cease-fire will be needed. Unfortunately, I don't think Israel will allow re-settlement into Israel proper. But I agree it would take a re-opening of trade between Gaza and Israel, with Gazans allowed to work in Israel on a practical basis. It would also take a recovery in the world economy. Some resettlement into the West Bank would be a possibility.