Venezuelan Dictatorship Referendum, 15 February

[2952-0-0]

Imagine the reaction of the pro-government crowd if NO prevails!

[Hash]

I sincerely hope the NO prevails.

Any sane person agree with you.

There a few Chavistas on this forum, sadly.

[ag]

For some reason, there seem to be no updates on many of the sites I am watching (eg, www.eluniversal.com). Have no clue what it means.

[ag]

Imagine the reaction of the pro-government crowd if NO prevails!

Unfortunately, does not look very likely at this point. On various forums, the NO voters seem to be pretty despondent - this is not a full-proof indicator, but an indicator. At the very least, it would make it easier to "pull" the results to the desired level.

[ag]

This Venezuelan pracice of not providing partial vote counts for hours and hours is very diconcerting. At this point we've had 2.5 hours after the closing of the polls and nothing official yet.

[ag]

Informally, it seems there is a pretty wide margin for "yes" (something like 54% agains 46%). 

Ain't looking any good.

http://www.caracaschronicles.com/

[Hash]

They rigged it, as expected.

Now I hope all the "Venezuela is a democracy" loons can shut up and stop living in delusional land.

[ottermax]

I find it interesting that we are all so strongly against the removal of term limits when I was reading another forum topic about new constitutional amendments and it appeared that the most popular one in America would be the removal of term limits.

what irony.

[ag]

I find it interesting that we are all so strongly against the removal of term limits when I was reading another forum topic about new constitutional amendments and it appeared that the most popular one in America would be the removal of term limits.

what irony.

In presidential systems outside the US presidents rarely loose re-election. If Chavez gets this, he is not abandoning his post via election - ever. At best, at some point there is a popular rising that removes him relatively bloodlessly (a catalist for it might be another electoral campaign). At worst, there will, eventually, be a major civil war. He might also die in office of the old age or of a bullet. There might be a coup. One thing that is not happening: he is not retiring at the end of ANY constitutional term.

BTW, I would be strongly against removing the presidential term limits in the US as well (though, once again, I hate legislative term limits).

[ag]

It seems some sort of official announcement is imminent.

[MaxQue]

They rigged it, as expected.

I don't think than they rigged it.

[2952-0-0]

Will plunging oil prices do him in? Just a few months ago he was bragging that the global recession was not affecting Venezuela at all.

[ag]

Will plunging oil prices do him in? Just a few months ago he was bragging that the global recession was not affecting Venezuela at all.

They may very well. Unfortunately, if he wins today, "doing him in" might mean his untimely departure from this world. Or else, if he is in danger he might really dispense w/ further democratic niceties. In either case, Venezuela will be hurt, and hurt badly.

If he looses, he, actually, has a much better chance of serving out his current term in peace and transferring the office to a hand-picked successor. If he wins, things won't be pretty for him - but they will be worse for Venezuela.

[ag]

Seems like the "yes" victory is official w/ 94% of the count. But I still can't get the formal result. They are speaking right now.

[ag]

8% margin?

[ag]

With 94.2% of the vote counted, theresult is:

Yes - 6,003,594
No - 5,040,082

http://www.caracaschronicles.com

[Keystone Phil]

Well, this ought to occupy my Democratization class tomorrow. Such a terrible result. I can't wait to see this pig gone. Looks like I might have to wait awhile for that...

[ag]

Well, this ought to occupy my Democratization class tomorrow. Such a terrible result. I can't wait to see this pig gone. Looks like I might have to wait awhile for that...

Or not - this might even hasten his end. But there is no outcome that I see, which will be good for Venezuela.

[ag]

Well, this ought to occupy my Democratization class tomorrow. Such a terrible result. I can't wait to see this pig gone. Looks like I might have to wait awhile for that...

PS I wouldn't call him a "pig". His intentions, are, actually, good, I believe - that's why he is rushing at high speed to Hell.

[Keystone Phil]

Well, this ought to occupy my Democratization class tomorrow. Such a terrible result. I can't wait to see this pig gone. Looks like I might have to wait awhile for that...

PS I wouldn't call him a "pig". His intentions, are, actually, good, I believe - that's why he is rushing at high speed to Hell.

Uh...?

[MaxQue]

Well, this ought to occupy my Democratization class tomorrow. Such a terrible result. I can't wait to see this pig gone. Looks like I might have to wait awhile for that...

PS I wouldn't call him a "pig". His intentions, are, actually, good, I believe - that's why he is rushing at high speed to Hell.

Uh...?

His intentions are good, but, like the saying says, ''The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions''.

That is what I understand of ag.

[ag]

Well, this ought to occupy my Democratization class tomorrow. Such a terrible result. I can't wait to see this pig gone. Looks like I might have to wait awhile for that...

PS I wouldn't call him a "pig". His intentions, are, actually, good, I believe - that's why he is rushing at high speed to Hell.

Uh...?

His intentions are good, but, like the saying says, ''The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions''.

That is what I understand of ag.

Exactly

[Keystone Phil]

Well, this ought to occupy my Democratization class tomorrow. Such a terrible result. I can't wait to see this pig gone. Looks like I might have to wait awhile for that...

PS I wouldn't call him a "pig". His intentions, are, actually, good, I believe - that's why he is rushing at high speed to Hell.

Uh...?

His intentions are good, but, like the saying says, ''The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions''.

That is what I understand of ag.

Well, ok, I should have picked up on the old saying but to say that this guy has totally good intentions is really naive.

[ag]

Well, this ought to occupy my Democratization class tomorrow. Such a terrible result. I can't wait to see this pig gone. Looks like I might have to wait awhile for that...

PS I wouldn't call him a "pig". His intentions, are, actually, good, I believe - that's why he is rushing at high speed to Hell.

Uh...?

His intentions are good, but, like the saying says, ''The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions''.

That is what I understand of ag.

Well, ok, I should have picked up on the old saying but to say that this guy has totally good intentions is really naive.

Depending on how you define good intentions He is clearly not very interested in personal luxury - might be a consideration, but it is minor. He hates his opponents - but he does not visibly enjoy doing nasty things to them. He is clearly motivated by a desire to transform an unequal society and help the poor - nothing bad in itself, except the path he has chosen does not lead where he thinks it does. He clearly thinks of himself as the only one capable of seeing it through - lack of humility and a fatal error, to be sure, but not everybody views it as a sin, and, clearly, he is among those who don't. He is willing to use nasty means to get to the worthy goals (though, truth be told, so far, he has abstained from the worst excess) - but, surely, he only does it when he views the goals as worthy.

Don't get me wrong: I do believe, he is the worst thing that happened to Venezuela in a long, long time. It's going to be Hell, and he is going to be responsible. But a pig he is not.

[Tender Branson]

They rigged it, as expected.

They didn't rig it, the "Yes" was leading by 7% in polls conducted before the referendum.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE51D28Z20090214?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

Nontheless, a disturbing result ...