my pseudogirlfriend's priest blames the recession on abortion

[© tweed]

my pseudogirlfriend's priest blames the recession on abortion

[anvi]

Yeah.  Maybe he also preaches that abortion is responsible for global warming, continental drift and the sky changing colors from noon to midnight.  Aren't priests required to study Thomas Aquinas and the Aristotilain theory of causation anymore?

By the way, which is better, a pseudo-girlfriend or a pseudo-non-girlfiend? 

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Does he also blame Hurricane Katrina on our sins?

[7,052,770]

I sure hope he's not Catholic.  Sounds like some kind of fundie offshoot.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I sure hope he's not Catholic.  Sounds like some kind of fundie offshoot.

If he wasn't Catholic he wouldn't be a priest.

[Keystone Phil]

I'm sure that's exactly how it went down...or your pseudo-girlfriend was probably texting in the middle of mass, thought she heard what you said she heard and totally misquoted the priest. Keep that open as a possibility, my friend.

[© tweed]

yes, she is a Catholic (though I am 100% sure she will make no effort to 'go' once it is her decision.  she doesn't believe in the divinity of Christ)

the priest also called pornography 'evil'

[JSojourner]

I sure hope he's not Catholic.  Sounds like some kind of fundie offshoot.

If he wasn't Catholic he wouldn't be a priest.

He could be Episcopalian or Orthodox.  Or Buddhist, for that matter.

[JSojourner]

the priest also called pornography 'evil'

I agree with him.  Though I oppose any restrictions on porn depicting consenting adults.

[© tweed]

the priest also called pornography 'evil'

I agree with him.  Though I oppose any restrictions on porn depicting consenting adults.

what about 'kinky' porn in which the scenes are depicted in a way such that they don't look like they're consenting?

[MaxQue]

Catholic Church need a clean-up. Some days, I am ashamed to be in the same church than some priests or cardinals.

[JSojourner]

the priest also called pornography 'evil'

I agree with him.  Though I oppose any restrictions on porn depicting consenting adults.

what about 'kinky' porn in which the scenes are depicted in a way such that they don't look like they're consenting?

There's a tough one, huh?  I wouldn't oppose investigating to determine if it was consensual or not.  But then, that goes to the problem of enforcement.  Do we have the people to probe these matters, make arrests, move them through the courts, etc?  Yeah -- no easy answer there.

My larger point is, of course, that in most cases, it is impossible to criminalize something...even if we believe it is evil.  The danger comes, however, when we throw up our hands and say we can't criminalize anything.

I find myself completely dissatisfied with both moral relativism and legalism.  Each path can take perilous turns.

[Keystone Phil]

yes, she is a Catholic (though I am 100% sure she will make no effort to 'go' once it is her decision.  she doesn't believe in the divinity of Christ)

Even more reason to believe that she wasn't actually paying attention to what was being said.

I also don't see what's wrong the priest calling porn "evil." Porn is certainly not something that is fundamentally good and there are obvious problems with pornography.

Some days, I am ashamed to be in the same church than some priests or cardinals.

Bye

[MaxQue]

Some days, I am ashamed to be in the same church than some priests or cardinals.

Bye

What is the problem? It is not because you a power position in the Church than you are allowed to say stupid things.

[Keystone Phil]

Some days, I am ashamed to be in the same church than some priests or cardinals.

Bye

What is the problem? It is not because you a power position in the Church than you are allowed to say stupid things.

To be ashamed to be in the same Church as certain people because you don't like their social views is ridiculous. Admit that there's more to this than just what you believe to be certain "stupid things." You're most likely ashamed to be in the same Church because these people are strongly against abortion and pornography. I don't care if those types leave the Church because, frankly, those are absolutely assinine reasons to be "ashamed" to be Catholic.

[MaxQue]

Some days, I am ashamed to be in the same church than some priests or cardinals.

Bye

What is the problem? It is not because you a power position in the Church than you are allowed to say stupid things.

To be ashamed to be in the same Church as certain people because you don't like their social views is ridiculous. Admit that there's more to this than just what you believe to be certain "stupid things." You're most likely ashamed to be in the same Church because these people are strongly against abortion and pornography. I don't care if those types leave the Church because, frankly, those are absolutely assinine reasons to be "ashamed" to be Catholic.

I am not ashamed of people who against abortion or pornography. I understand those persons. The problem is people who say things like ''We are in recession because of abortion'' or ''Katrina was send to punish us''. A cardinal from Quebec said in 2007 than problems in Quebec come from medias who communicate ideas from opponents of catholicism. He also said than the province should help him to evangelise the whole province.

Also, are you happy to be in the same church than the antisemitic priest who was readmitted last week? I don't think so.

I have nothing against social views of them. I was like them before. I was thinking than unmarried people who have sex were horrible and should be banned from the Church, so I understand them. The problem is not the social views, but the strange links and nonsense than a vocal minority do with that.

[Keystone Phil]

Also, are you happy to be in the same church than the antisemitic priest who was readmitted last week? I don't think so.

No, I'm not ashamed because that's not something my Church believes. Those are the extreme views of a very small minority. I don't believe in being ashamed of an institution or a belief just because some warped person is also a member or subscribes to that belief.

[7,052,770]

I am not ashamed of people who against abortion or pornography. I understand those persons. The problem is people who say things like ''We are in recession because of abortion'' or ''Katrina was send to punish us''. A cardinal from Quebec said in 2007 than problems in Quebec come from medias who communicate ideas from opponents of catholicism. He also said than the province should help him to evangelise the whole province.

That's such a tiny minority of Catholics who believe that.  The vast majority of people who espouse beliefs like that are Protestant.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I am not ashamed of people who against abortion or pornography. I understand those persons. The problem is people who say things like ''We are in recession because of abortion'' or ''Katrina was send to punish us''. A cardinal from Quebec said in 2007 than problems in Quebec come from medias who communicate ideas from opponents of catholicism. He also said than the province should help him to evangelise the whole province.

That's such a tiny minority of Catholics who believe that.  The vast majority of people who espouse beliefs like that are fundamentalist Protestant.

Fixed to be more precise and thus accurate.

[MaxQue]

I am not ashamed of people who against abortion or pornography. I understand those persons. The problem is people who say things like ''We are in recession because of abortion'' or ''Katrina was send to punish us''. A cardinal from Quebec said in 2007 than problems in Quebec come from medias who communicate ideas from opponents of catholicism. He also said than the province should help him to evangelise the whole province.

That's such a tiny minority of Catholics who believe that.  The vast majority of people who espouse beliefs like that are Protestant.

Yes, that is a tiny minority, but we heard them more than a tiny minority of time. They are too vocal.

[Holmes]

tge priest also called pornography 'evil'

I think your girlfriend was texting in mass and totally misquoted the priest.

[Torie]

the priest also called pornography 'evil'

I agree with him.  Though I oppose any restrictions on porn depicting consenting adults.

Assuming it does not glorify bedroom violence or mayhem, why is porn involving consenting adults and watched by consenting adults  evil JS?

By the way, I have trouble believing that the quote in question is real. It makes zero sense. God decides to put some folks out of work because others are having abortions? If that is God, he needs to be euthanized.

[JSojourner]

the priest also called pornography 'evil'

I agree with him.  Though I oppose any restrictions on porn depicting consenting adults.

Assuming it does not glorify bedroom violence or mayhem, why is porn involving consenting adults and watched by consenting adults  evil JS?

Well, I almost didn't respond -- because the last thing I want is to appear like another Eagle Forum/American Family Association loon bent on forcing my version of morality on everyone.  (I know you don't think that but because I eagerly identify as Christian, I want to be sure everyone else knows where I stand.  I don't want any legislation regulating porn, except that which depicts children.)

I don't consider sex evil and I think the human body, particularly the female form, is the most amazing and beautiful creation extant. But...

I consider the use of porn dangerous and even evil because it objectifies women, it can impact intimacy adversely in a real life relationship and it sometimes -- though I have no objective proof of it...this is just a belief, or a supposition...puts chains on models who were promised one thing and delivered quite another.  They can quit, surely.  But the pictures are taken and the images are out there.

I don't want to put too fine a point on it.  I know the line between what is porn and what is just R-rated (which I view all the time) is quite subjective.  And further, I don't think I am better than anyone who enjoys it.  My concern is that ANY image making a woman into a sex object is evil. 

And I am as evil and as guilty as they come in that regard, without having any desire to read Penthouse or watch a skin flick.  Here's what I mean --

I'm walking around the mall with a buddy and some drop-dead gorgeous goddess walks by.  Friend and I look at each other and we say, in unison, "Oh yeah...I'd like to break off a piece of that."

Or..."I'd hit it."  Or whatever.

For me, the problem is turning the SHE or the HER into an IT or a THAT.  And to my shame, I do and say it all the time.  I think for many men, porn perpetuates this.  That beautiful woman is no longer a person.  She's an "it", a "that".  I know I should view women as people...and not spunk receptacles.  Most of the time, I do.  But I can't help feeling ashamed when I don't...and when I give in to that subhuman idea that she is a thing....a thing that exists for me and my pleasure, rather than for her own (Divine?) purpose or fulfillment.

[Torie]

Thanks for your thoughtful response JS.  However, for what it is worth, I don't think my sojourn into porn has had the slightest impact on how I treat women. Maybe it is because my mind rules, no matter how much I try to make my region below the waist more competitive with the area above my neck. I don't know. The bottom line is that it is fun I guess for me - once in awhile.

I suspect a lot of guys are like me; we can enjoy porn without any desire to treat women like objects, ignoring their own needs or desires, which in any event tends to prove highly unproductive, aka it may well end up er, biting you in the ass, as it were.

[JSojourner]

Thanks for your thoughtful response JS.  However, for what it is worth, I don't think my sojourn into porn has had the slightest impact on how I treat women. Maybe it is because my mind rules, no matter how much I try to make my region below the waist more competitive with the area above my neck. I don't know. The bottom line is that it is fun I guess for me - once in awhile.

I suspect a lot of guys are like me; we can enjoy porn without any desire to treat women like objects, ignoring their own needs or desires, which in any event tends to prove highly unproductive, aka it may well end up er, biting you in the ass, as it were.

Torie,

Candidly, I suspect very few guys are like you. Intelligent people are rare.

But I do concede that with age comes maturity, usually.  And therefore, a certain amount of restraint and decorum in many areas...including the approach to the fairer sex.

I didn't mean to project my own (sometimes infantile) hornyness onto anyone else.  I sometimes wonder how I can range so much from lofty thoughts and earnest erudition to thinking of Tina Fey or Jessica Alba as "a piece of ass". 

However, your "biting in the ass" comment just proves my point.  You are a gutter-beast if ever there was one. If ass-biting is what you're into, sorry...no thanks.

<grin> Just kidding!  :-)