Homosexuality in the Bible

[Josh/Devilman88]

Where in the Bible does it preach against it?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Where in the Bible does it preach against it?

Basically, the argument that follows can be used to argue against all sexual immorality:  homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, adultery, orgies, etc, etc:

1) The first mention (which was actually a prophecy) of human sex in the bible is given in Genesis 2:24 in the God created context of a heterosexual marriage:

2) The first historical account of human sex in the bible is given in Genesis 4:1 and took place in the God created context of a heterosexual marriage:

3) The first historical account of a homosexual act in the bible is extremely negative:  Genesis Ch 19 (the mob of Sodom).  The perversion of the sexual immorality of Sodom is listed in the New Testament as one of the reasons God destroyed Sodom (see Jude 1:7).

4) Homosexuality is listed (along with incest and bestiality) as a practice of the pagan nations God overthrew in the land of Canaan.  And the Israelites were told that it was one of the reasons why God overthrew those nations and the Israelites were warned not to practice the same acts (see Leviticus ch 18)

5) Again, Israel is warned that homosexuality (along with incest and bestiality) was a practice of the pagan nations God overthrew in the land of Canaan.  And the Israelites were told, once again, that it was one of the reasons why God overthrew those nations and the Israelites were warned not to practice the same acts.  The punishment of death was handed out to both the pitcher and the catcher. (see Leviticus ch 20)

6) In Judges 19, there is another historical account of a homosexual act, and it is again negative, and again it involves rape, much like the account of Sodom in Genesis ch 19.

7) Same-sex sex is listed as the action of Pagans, in New Testament book of Romans ch 1.

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So, we have three types of place markers:

1) the proper context God created for human sex is heterosexual marriage, in both the Old and New Testaments

2) homosexuality is listed as the act of pagans, in both the Old and New Testaments, and is couched in the same breath as incest and bestiality.

3) Every single example of same-sex sex in the bible, both Old and New Testaments, is discussed in a negative light.  There is not a single neutral reference to it, much less a positive reference.

[Josh/Devilman88]

Thank you, after reading that I know Homosexuality is a sin. I know I am saved and going to heaven, but the sin of Homosexuality is still there. The thing is, females don't "turn me on" so to speak. I want to live right and do the right things for God, but if females don't turn me on, how can I marriage one and have sex with one?

[Marokai Backbeat]

You should be doing what you feel is right for yourself in that regard, duke. You shouldn't make yourself unhappy because you feel you have to abide to an archaic set of rules on who you know you are.

[Josh/Devilman88]

You should be doing what you feel is right for yourself in that regard, duke. You shouldn't make yourself unhappy because you feel you have to abide to an archaic set of rules on who you know you are.

I believe in God and Heaven. I also believe in a Hell. And the wages of sin is death, or going to Hell. Now the only way to not go to Hell is getting saved or asking Jesus(God) to come into your heart and be your savior. I did that about a year ago, and it pains knowing that my Homosexuality hurt Jesus. I want to live right and do the right thing for God(Jesus).

[RosettaStoned]

leave it to jmfcst to whip out the homophobic propaganda!

[Marokai Backbeat]

You should be doing what you feel is right for yourself in that regard, duke. You shouldn't make yourself unhappy because you feel you have to abide to an archaic set of rules on who you know you are.

I believe in God and Heaven. I also believe in a Hell. And the wages of sin is death, or going to Hell. Now the only way to not go to Hell is getting saved or asking Jesus(God) to come into your heart and be your savior. I did that about a year ago, and it pains knowing that my Homosexuality hurt Jesus. I want to live right and do the right thing for God(Jesus).

But you're never going to be happy unless you're with another man. It's not like you can erase your homosexuality. It pains me knowing that you would rather be unhappy and believe in everything the Bible says rather than believe in God and be happy for being who you are.

[Joe Republic]

Josh, what if God and Heaven etc. don't exist?  Or at least that all that stuff jmfcst posted was completely false?  Wouldn't you be mightily pissed to learn upon dying that you spent all this time fretting and tearing yourself up over your identity for nothing?

[Josh/Devilman88]

They could not exist. But am I willing to take that chance? Can a Homosexual be gay and saved? I want to be happy and be who I am, but I don't want to die and wake up in Hell forever.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Thank you, after reading that I know Homosexuality is a sin.

Duke, I trust you opened and read the passages for yourself and are not taking my word for it...along with reading the passages cited from different opinions.

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I know I am saved and going to heaven, but the sin of Homosexuality is still there. The thing is, females don't "turn me on" so to speak. I want to live right and do the right things for God, but if females don't turn me on, how can I marriage one and have sex with one?

I cannot speak from your exact point of view.  But if we judge God's abilities from only our point of view, where then is faith?

If Moses, who in Exodus ch3 and ch4 begged God to pick someone else, was given the grace to overcome a Pharaoh, certainly God is faithful to give you the provisions you need to overcome anything that may stand against you:

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

They could not exist. But am I willing to take that chance? Can a Homosexual be gay and saved? I want to be happy and be who I am, but I don't want to die and wake up in Hell forever.

Again, I am an atheist and probably shouldn't participate in these type of discussion, but if I were to believe in God, I would believe he (or she) was a reasonable and intelligent being capable of seeing that my being gay was no hindrance on whether I was deserving of Heaven or not. I like to think that if there is a God, he would judge me on being a good person and not whether I was in his club or not.

So I live a good life, and whether there is a god, or a heaven or hell, I know I will end up well because I simply lived a good life.

[Joe Republic]

They could not exist. But am I willing to take that chance? Can a Homosexual be gay and saved? I want to be happy and be who I am, but I don't want to die and wake up in Hell forever.

Quite frankly, there is little to no proof either way of the existence of an afterlife of any kind.  It seems to me that the onus of proof lies on the side of those who support the idea, so until that happens, I'm going to go ahead and assume there isn't one.  If I find out I'm wrong when I die, then color me extremely surprised.

[afleitch]

I do not wish, under any circumstances to re-ignite an argument a debate over scripture that has been ongoing on this forum for many years, but for once I agree with jmfcst over his point that you must read things for yourself and listen to other opinions and other interpretations.

Jmfcst has his. I have mine. There are many who support one over the other. There are many who reject both.

My call to you, and this is my call, is that if your sexuality is God given, if it is selectively give; to one in 10 or one in 20, unlike the capacpity to lie, or to steal which is granted to us all; you cannot be considered to be of sinful nature because of homosexual attraction. You can lie and I can lie and jmfcst can lie and jsojourner can lie, but only you and I can be physically and mentally attracted to men in exclusivity. Only you and I can repond to their touch or their words or their company in ways that others cannot.

If you are a slattern, if you sleep around or whore yourself and your body you are committing a sin, as you would be if you were heterosexual. There is no condemnation of homosexual relationships built on trust and love. Nor is there a seal of approval. We are, by nature of our impotency to women excluded from the man-woman marriage designed for procreation and children. Unfortunately, like other eunochos we are defined only by what we cannot do not by what we can.

[memphis]

The thing about homosexuality in the Bible is that it is mentioned very quickly along with a laundry list of a million other thou shalt nots that nobody pays any attention to today. Oh noes, my shirt is a cotton/poly blend. I'm going straight to hell unless I rid myself of these clothes that are surely an abomination in the eyes of the Lord.  In any case, it's really hard to take the Bible seriously with all its Bronze age talk of goat sacrifices and such. With all the morbid problems in the world, I can't understand the fuss over other people's consensual sex. There are so many real issues out there....

[Josh/Devilman88]

I'm going to do alot of study on this and pray alot about this that God will show me the answer. That is all I can do.

[afleitch]

I'm going to do alot of study on this and pray alot about this that God will show me the answer. That is all I can do.

It is all you can do. It is all I could do.

[Joe Republic]

I'm going to do alot of study on this and pray alot about this that God will show me the answer. That is all I can do.

That's truly the best way for you, but please do try to remember that - as difficult as it may seem to you - there is always the likelihood that there is nobody listening.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I believe in God and Heaven. I also believe in a Hell. And the wages of sin is death, or going to Hell. Now the only way to not go to Hell is getting saved or asking Jesus(God) to come into your heart and be your savior. I did that about a year ago, and it pains knowing that my Homosexuality hurt Jesus. I want to live right and do the right thing for God(Jesus).

I am just as guilty of nailing Christ to the cross as you are.  And don’t think of it as Jesus Christ is being crucified again each time you sin.  Christ experienced that pain only ONCE.  He was crucified almost 2000 years ago and his crucifixion is done and over with, forever.

And don’t feel guilty for Christ being crucified for your sins, for if he had not died, you could not live.  Rather God put Christ to death in order to save our lives…just as Joseph explained the reason why God allowed his brothers to sell him into slavery in Egypt:

Gen 45:3-8  3 Joseph said to his brothers, "I am Joseph! Is my father still living?" But his brothers were not able to answer him, because they were terrified at his presence.
 4 Then Joseph said to his brothers, "Come close to me." When they had done so, he said, "I am your brother Joseph, the one you sold into Egypt! 5 And now, do not be distressed and do not be angry with yourselves for selling me here, because it was to save lives that God sent me ahead of you. 6 For two years now there has been famine in the land, and for the next five years there will not be plowing and reaping. 7 But God sent me ahead of you to preserve for you a remnant on earth and to save your lives by a great deliverance.

So, just as God has forgiven us, we need to forgive ourselves.   
 
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And, I, like you, asked Jesus into my heart.  In fact, I did it several times over many years prior to my first meeting with Christ in Oct 1992.  Frustratingly, for me at least, asking Christ into my heart did nothing.  Instead, God had to catch me by trickery. He laid a trap for me and began setting that trap many years before he sprung it upon me one night while I was alone in my apartment reading the bible.

[afleitch]

And, I, like you, asked Jesus into my heart.  In fact, I did it several times over many years prior to my first meeting with Christ in Oct 1992.  Frustratingly, for me at least, asking Christ into my heart did nothing.  Instead, God had to catch me by trickery. He laid a trap for me and began setting that trap many years before he sprung it upon me one night while I was alone in my apartment reading the bible.

That may explain why on earth I seem to have a 'wind behind my back' every time you and I discuss matter such as these.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm sorry Duke, but you're never going to change what you are. You're going to have to reconcile the two unless you want to end up married to someone and unhappy.

[Josh/Devilman88]

I want to be happy and I want to do right in God's eyes. But first I need to study what is right in Gods eyes. And yes it is a chance there is no God, but if there isn't and I live a Godly life and can die knowing I lived a good life and be at peace with myself. I will do alot of study on this and see what God points out to me.

[John Dibble]

Thank you, after reading that I know Homosexuality is a sin. I know I am saved and going to heaven, but the sin of Homosexuality is still there. The thing is, females don't "turn me on" so to speak. I want to live right and do the right things for God, but if females don't turn me on, how can I marriage one and have sex with one?

As others have said, you can't change your sexual orientation. You will always have an attraction to men, and you will always lack an attraction to women. If you believe that homosexual sex is a sin and thus not worth pursuing, my advice to you is to not pursue any romantic relationships. You can't have one with a man because of the whole sin thing, and you can't have one with a woman because it would just be a big fat lie that would in all probability make both you and the woman miserable.

Going by afleitch's interpretation of Matthew 19:1-12 is valid, then homosexuals are exempt from marriage. Logically speaking the reasons above would be a sufficient explanation of that exception. However, I would stipulate that this exemption doesn't necessarily condone homosexual acts in the Bible, just exempt homosexuals from having to get married. Whether you think the interpretation is valid or not is up to you - I advise you study the issue and listen to all sides before making a decision.

Both afleitch and jmfcst are good people to ask about the Bible, and they both have different approaches that lead them to their different conclusions. Listen to their reasons and the reasons of others, but ultimately draw your own conclusions - you may very well end up in the middle ground somewhere.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Going by afleitch's interpretation of Matthew 19:1-12 is valid, then homosexuals are exempt from marriage.

TRAITOR:

Well, Dibble, you can't have both ways:  you can't agree with my interpretation of the bible on the one hand and then turn around and blame me for turning you off to Christianity.

Sure I can - I had a different interpretation before that I rather liked, and you convinced me of an intepretation that I like much less, thus turning me off to Christianity. It's a rather simple series of events.

[Speed of Sound]

Josh, what if God and Heaven etc. don't exist?  Or at least that all that stuff jmfcst posted was completely false?  Wouldn't you be mightily pissed to learn upon dying that you spent all this time fretting and tearing yourself up over your identity for nothing?

Indeed. A more painful conclusion than Hell. That's what I ask myself before I commit.....well, a large multitude of Christian (and other religious) sins. Not to say I go out of the way to.....

[John Dibble]

Going by afleitch's interpretation of Matthew 19:1-12 is valid, then homosexuals are exempt from marriage.

TRAITOR:

Well, Dibble, you can't have both ways:  you can't agree with my interpretation of the bible on the one hand and then turn around and blame me for turning you off to Christianity.

Sure I can - I had a different interpretation before that I rather liked, and you convinced me of an intepretation that I like much less, thus turning me off to Christianity. It's a rather simple series of events.

I'm not allowed to consider new arguments? Besides, I said "if" - his interpretation is possibly valid, it's possibly not. It's only a small detail in the Bible - I still largely agree with your interpretation on much of it, just not all of it. For example, remember that whole argument about the seventh day we had?