Bush: Weapon of Mass Deception on Iraq....(Caution: Long Post)
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  Bush: Weapon of Mass Deception on Iraq....(Caution: Long Post)
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Author Topic: Bush: Weapon of Mass Deception on Iraq....(Caution: Long Post)  (Read 2002 times)
mddem2004
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« on: September 21, 2004, 12:37:40 PM »

I'm posting this thread as an American who has just heard yesterdays news that an American was beheaded in Iraq, and one will likely meet the same fate in 24 hours.

I'm posting this thread as an American who sees his country making the same fatal policy decisions that were made in Vietnam 40 years ago.

I'm posting this thread because our country, Democrat-Republican-Whatever, better brace itself for things to get A LOT worse in Iraq, and we should have seen it coming.

I'm going to let you in on a not so dirty little secret that we all fear but don't want to own up to......
There IS no solution on the ground in Iraq.

That is why in Kerry's speech yesterday, those looking for Kerry's 'silver bullet' to Iraq didn't find one. That is why Bush's current strategy of:
a) Bring in as much international help as you can.
b) 'Iraqify' the security forces as much as possible.
c) Continue reconstruction efforts, emphasising basic needs.
d) Hold elections to legitimize Iraq as quickly as possible.

......is the same prescription the Democrats called for all during 2003 and Bush belatedly embraced.

There is no real fundemental difference, and never has been, between Kerry's and Bush's current policy on solving Iraq. The only possible difference might be......might be...... Kerry being able to bring in more help from the West (financial mostly) because Bush has so strained our relations and the Europeans would want to start fresh with a new administration. Don't count on troops though no matter whose elected. The Europeans are not going to replace American Graves with European ones.

We are facing a Catch-22 in each of our policy objectives which all point very clearly to the fact that Iraq is a failed foreign policy initiative and there is no solution to Iraq that will satisfy our current stated policy goals.

1) To get to our end objective - a legitimatly elected democratic Iraq - we must have security.
2) To get security we must destroy or diminish the Insurgency.
3) To destroy or quell the insurgents we must either - A. Train Iraqi security forces to take over........ but they won't be capable in the near term....OR
B. Take the offensive as never before with our military, yet that will certainly further unify disparate groups against us or even drive more moderates against us because the civilian toll will be intolerable.
4) Reconstruction is of course a joke until we can achieve security, which again leads us right back to point #1.

BUSH'S "CATASTROPHIC SUCCESS' IN IRAQ
Thats right folks.....that is how this president has recently characterized our current situation in Iraq......
Lets review just how we got here and how 'Catastrophic' this administration ineptitude has been:

Lets start with quotes from top Republicans from this Sunday:
Sen. Richard Lugar:  'This is the incompetence in the administration.' referring to the fact that only $1 billion of $18.4 billion allocated by Congress has been spent on reconstruction to date.
Sen. Chuck Hagel: 'The fact is, we're in deep trouble in Iraq...and I think we're going to have to look at some recalibration of policy,'
Sen. John McCain: 'We made serious mistakes,'.......and Mr Bush had been 'perhaps not as straight as maybe we'd like to see' on Iraq.

So...... Just what were those mistakes?Huh?
Setting aside the well known arguments of whether we should have invaded Iraq in the first place (Mistake #1).....once that fateful decision was made, just how INCOMPETANT has this administraton been in handling its own damn war?Huh? The three biggest mistakes once we were in the country are:

1) Not enough troops. Its well known that Gen Zinni and others have said that we would need AT LEAST 250,000 troops to properly secure Iraq AFTER the shooting stopped. Looting and wide spread crime was the result. There are now more troops per capita in Bosnia than in Iraq.

2) Not allowing other countries to participate in the reconstruction effort.Wanting the lucritive contracts and the reconstruction to be awarded only to those countries that participated in the war, the administration blew a chance to get more investment faster into the country and a chance to smooth over the rough relations with some of its allies. Even begging won't get countries to invest in there now......

3) Not Risking the Bloodshed When It Was Necessary  - We've seen it twice now - once in Falluja and once in Najef. Each time we have confronted the insurgency in a large stand up fight, we don't destroy the enemy, resulting in embolding the Insurgents and putting off to another day the inevitable fight when they are only stronger.

THE WAR IS ESCALATING - NOT DIMINISHING
- In March of this year we were facing an average of 700+ attacks a month from the insurgents. In August that number rose to 2500+ and September is well on its way above that number.

- In March the average insurgent cell consisted of 3 to 12 members. Today they average 15 to 25 and there are estimated to be many, many more active, organized, coordinated, and well financed cells. More striking, they are being equiped in many cases its being found, with brand new hardware (probably from Iran or Syria or both) - not Sadaam era leftovers.

- The past 5 months (April- August) has seen more American wounded 3900 than the 13 months prior to that (March 03 thru March 04) - 3300.

- The past five months we have averaged 75 Deaths a month, the previous 13 months before that we averaged 46 Deaths a month.

Yet dispite this near doubling of our casualty rate in the past 5 months the insurgency, even according to the pentagon, is getting much stronger - not weaker.

ELECTIONS IN IRAQ

The administration is sticking by its long held goal that elections will occur by mid January and a fully sovereign democratic Iraq will emerge.

Not Likely.......

- The UN, which is in charge of organizing and carrying out the elections, estimate there will have to be betwwen 2500 to 3500 polling places across Iraq for a fair and undisputed election to occur.
We Can't Even Secure The Green Zone.....much less the ques for new Iraq police recruits!

 - The UN estimates that it needs to register a daunting 12 million eligible Iraqis for the election. That amounts to approximately 102,000 Iraqi's A DAY from now till mid January. That would be daunting even by western standards........with security. The UN began that process this week......

- There has been talk of late in the administration that they may 'side step' hot beds like Falluja or Sadr City for the election fearing the polling places will be too unsecure. They cite our own experience during the Civil War as an example of how an election can occur and still be legitimate with only half the country voting.

I can think of no quicker way to de-legitimize a government, and hence strengthen the Insurgency, than to have only 'parts' of the country participate. Especially when that election took place while proped up by the point of the bayonet of a foreign power.

This leaves us with the all too glaring fact that Mr. George W. Bush will not talk about and Kerry has only begun to touch upon.

We have passed the point at which our stated policy objectives can be achieved

We can, and likely will, begin intensive military operations after our own election to clear these 'No-Go' zones of insurgents. That is still six weeks away and with each passing week the Insurgency gets stronger making it much more likely it will cost more American lives once its begun. This is a purely political calculation on the part of Mr. Bush that Will Cost More Lives.

If you doubt me......then please provide me with ONE military reason why we won't do it now.......

This Catacomb of Catch -22's is all the more alarming when one considers the findings of the recently completed National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq.......potential Civil War in Iraq.

I recall all too vividly in November of last year, at the height of the first dramatic increase in Insurgent activity, that it was pretty much a unanimous belief among our nations national security experts (both inside and outside the administration) that we had AT MOST 6 months to secure Iraq or our window of opportunity for success would be closed. That was 9 months ago.......

The new Intelligence Estimate has now stated that, belatedly, our window of opportunity for success is rapidly closing and the likely result if that happens is.......Civil War in Iraq. A result that, in my view, is not a mere possibility - but a probability.  

If these elections are not seen as legitimate (indeed ARE legitimate), if they take place with mush of the country excluded because we can't secure the place, if they produce a result that will further diminish Suni power, or if they result in a strong centralized government that wants to impose Islamic Law onto the Kurds.......the likely result will indeed be Civil War.

And that folks is where we find ourselves today no matter who is the winner on November 2nd.....

That is why there are no 'Silver Bullets' from either side to solving Iraq.....Because there is no exceptable 'American' solution to Iraq.......

And that is why there is no real difference between either sides position to solving Iraq......because there is no solution. If we as a Nation have a shred of courage, we'll admit our policy in Iraq has failed.

And that is why this election should not be about who has a plan to 'solve' Iraq, but about who has made the biggest strategic National Security blunder, certainly since Vietnam, but in all probability IN OUR HISTORY........

That of course is none other than George W. Bush.....

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A18
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2004, 02:07:53 PM »

If you lived 60 years ago, you'd be saying the same thing about Japan.

Or Germany, since FDR apparently misled us into thinking it had something to do with Pearl Harbor.
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badnarikin04
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2004, 02:22:13 PM »

All that justification when I can just make an equally sensible argument with three words...

Leave them alone.
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A18
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2004, 02:27:44 PM »

And I can too: kill them all
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Shira
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2004, 04:06:05 PM »


The deceived is worse than the deceiver
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A18
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2004, 04:10:28 PM »

The dictator was worse than the prisoner
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mddem2004
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2004, 05:13:07 PM »

And the Ill Informed are worse than Morons......
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mddem2004
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2004, 07:57:47 PM »

If you lived 60 years ago, you'd be saying the same thing about Japan.

Or Germany, since FDR apparently misled us into thinking it had something to do with Pearl Harbor.
Its interesting that you offer no counter to my points and no rebutal. Should I have expected other wise?

In case you haven't noticed - our soldiers graves are not marked with a little 'r' or 'd' on them.

This is an American tradgedy - an American quagmire.

Your less than convincing remarks only shows your superficial knowledge of what is taking place before our very eyes......
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A18
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2004, 09:06:52 PM »

You didn't make points. You spewed pessimism, and seemed to enjoy doing it.

A single death is a tragedy. A thousand deaths is a statistic. There is no quagmire.
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Shira
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2004, 10:02:49 PM »


2) Not allowing other countries to participate in the reconstruction effort.Wanting the lucritive contracts and the reconstruction to be awarded only to those countries that participated in the war, the administration blew a chance to get more investment faster into the country and a chance to smooth over the rough relations with some of its allies. Even begging won't get countries to invest in there now......


That’s an important point.
If we are lucky and Bush somehow will be defeated, then this hippocratic policy will be changed. This change will bring the German and the French investors (and soldiers) to Iraq. Remember that Kerry is not captured by the big corporations.
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mddem2004
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2004, 10:53:18 PM »
« Edited: September 21, 2004, 10:55:36 PM by mddem2004 »

......you spewed pessimism.
......There is no quagmire.
What I spewed was a bit of reality, something this President doesn't have a clue how to find......

No Quagmire???

Again, since your comprehension to what I wrote seems to be lacking:

Sen. Chuck Hagel: 'The fact is, we're in deep trouble in Iraq...and I think we're going to have to look at some recalibration of policy,'
Sen. John McCain: 'We made serious mistakes,'.......and Mr Bush had been 'perhaps not as straight as maybe we'd like to see' on Iraq.
Sen Lugar: 'Thats the incompetancey of the administration'...when referring to the fact that only $1 Billion of an allocated $18 billion has been spent on reconstruction.

These are all quotes from the best foreign policy minds in the REPUBLICAN PARTY just three days ago.

Tell me they don't smell quagmire with those remarks in the middle of a presidential election.

But I guess you just can't grasp it.......
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A18
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2004, 10:57:19 PM »

Words don't make quagmires.

As for those three people, I'm not worried about it, especially since I saw that interview with John McCain and his slightly hinting at the notion that Bush might not be being quite as straight with the American people as he should.

What is the trouble?
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mddem2004
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2004, 11:14:12 PM »

If I have to point out to you just "what is the trouble" with a president that can't level with the American people as to the true nature of things in Iraq, if I have to point out to you that this president has made fatal error after fatal error in his own War of Choice, If you can't not even admit.....as these Senators have.....that we need to change and change NOW how we are conducting this war....

You really, REALLY are more clueless than I first thought.
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freedomburns
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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2004, 01:57:10 AM »

If you lived 60 years ago, you'd be saying the same thing about Japan.

Or Germany, since FDR apparently misled us into thinking it had something to do with Pearl Harbor.
Philip, your ideological blindness is a mistake.  This issue goes beyond Democrat or Republican.  We need to regain our status as a moral leader in the world.  The Iraqis do NOT want us to help give them their freedom.  They are NOT down with the program AT ALL.  The polls show something like 90% of them just want us to get the hell out.  Well, maybe this tar babyish quagmire is a bigger bite than we can swallow.  The implications of our "losing" and pulling out of this war could be staggering.  We are already looked at the same way Germany was once looked at in the world community.  We are committing war crimes.  Kofi Annan, the Secretary of the UN just repeatedly said so, and said it again on Lou Dobbs' show on CNN recently.  The war is illegal.  

The legacy of this will taint us in myriad ways.  I don’t know the solution.  Mddem’s post lays it out.  Sigh.  I don’t see the way out of the this, and I don’t think I am being cynical to point out the obvious, that this war was initiated to further an agenda that is not entirely related to fighting the so called “War on Terrorism”.  Well, when we are force to leave, sooner rather than later, and that place devolves to a state of anarchy, we will see what a real rogue state looks like and we will have a larger problem on our hands.  

This doesn’t begin to cover the humongous amounts of radiation and toxic pollution that we have illegally spewed all over Iraq with our depleted uranium weapons that have also been ruled illegal by the United Nations.  We have used the real weapons of mass destruction and the DU weapons are responsible for the high rate of terrible birth defects in Iraqi children and for the 30%+ casualty rate in veterans who are suffering from “Gulf War Syndrome” etc. at higher rates even then Oil War I.  Oil War II has and will result in the disabling of hundreds of thousands of Americans over time.  The rates are astounding already.  We have used thousands of tons of DU weapons and polluted parts of that country possible for all eternity.  That uranium leaks into the ground and eventually into people’s bodies and it replaces calcium and it really messes things up.  What is going on in Iraq is a catastrophe on many levels.  It is a serious, serious tragedy in the making.  It makes me sad to think about it.  Neither Kerry nor Bush seems determined to fix things properly.  I am not satisfied.

freedomburns
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