The Decider's Biggest Blunder

[??????????]

Tax cuts (second to the beyond obvious War disaster).

You mean the war we've won?

Iraq.  We went in without a plan / a really sucky plan.

We did go in with a plan. But just like in any war "The best plans are ruined upon first contact with the enemy".

[Ban my account ffs!]

Tax cuts (second to the beyond obvious War disaster).

You mean the war we've won?

Oh, you mean the one that is costing us upwards of $1 trillion dollars and thousands of lives?  I'm not sure what constitutes a win to you, but I guess we do have another country under our belt...

I agree 100%.... when all is said and done, the Bush administration will have spent over $1,700,000,000,000 trying to fix mistakes he made.  That is $5500 for every man, woman, and child in the United States.

Are you going to cough that money up State's or will we just borrow it from China?

I never thought I'd see the day that the Republicans became more big government than the Democrats.

[CPT MikeyMike]

Not wiping Iraq & Syria off the map in one fell swoop by air.

Include Iran in that.

My biggest beef is that fact that he didn't reduce government spending causing a lot of the financial problems that are going on today.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Not wiping Iraq & Syria off the map in one fell swoop by air.

Include Iran in that.

My biggest beef is that fact that he didn't reduce government spending causing a lot of the financial problems that are going on today.

Well Iran is a bit more complicated because of their size and that anti-US sentiment exists mostly with the religious leaders, not the people, Mike, but yeah they're bad news.  I think I mentioned earlier he spent like a drunken sailor and never vetoed any spending plans his first 4 years.

[CPT MikeyMike]

Not wiping Iraq & Syria off the map in one fell swoop by air.

Include Iran in that.

My biggest beef is that fact that he didn't reduce government spending causing a lot of the financial problems that are going on today.

Well Iran is a bit more complicated because of their size and that anti-US sentiment exists mostly with the religious leaders, not the people, Mike, but yeah they're bad news.  I think I mentioned earlier he spent like a drunken sailor and never vetoed any spending plans his first 4 years.

I like to also include two other issues - not posted.

1. No energy plan - though I do blame the Democrats just as much (probably deserves the blame even more than Bush because of ANWAR).

2. Vetoing the stem cell research bill - that and the right to life/die issue made me change my voter registration from Republican to Independent.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

2. Vetoing the stem cell research bill - that and the right to life/die issue made me change my voter registration from Republican to Independent.

That one was asbsolutely ridiculous.

Shame he abandoned most other fundamental Republican principles domestically.

[MODU]

Of your list, only the following actually relate directly to Bush:
- Iraq quagmire
- Katrina response
- U.S. Attorney Firing
- Plamegate
- Tax Cuts in Wartime
- 9-11 Preparedness
- Warrantless Wiretapping, etc.

Of that list, the only items that Bush actually had a hand in:
- Iraq quagmire
- Katrina response
- U.S. Attorney Firing
- Tax Cuts in Wartime
- Warrantless Wiretapping, etc.

Iraq didn't go exactly as planned, but the quagmire (as noted) resulted more in uncontrolable variables than actual planning.  Famous saying of "the best laid plan goes out the window when the first shot is fired" applies here.

Katrina was a failure on multiple levels, primarily on the local and state.  Federal relief supplies could not be driven stationed near the Gulf since the storm kept shifting directions and the government didn't want to put the supplies in harms way (smart move).  After the storm, access to the more highlighted region (aka New Orleans) was hampered by road conditions.  Air support and fleet support made a big impact on how quickly aid was given, but that too had to wait until the storm cleared.

Attorney's is probably the biggest blunder, but only from the PR aspect.  The actual firing was within the law.

There is nothing wrong with the tax cuts, as the economy was still growing during war time, resulting in record tax revenues.

There was nothing wrong with the warrantless wiretapping since it dealt with international calls.

[Nym90]

Tax cuts in wartime.

You'd think it'd be obvious that having China and Saudi Arabia and the like loan us hundreds of billions of dollars would be a bad thing in the long run, but jumping off an 80 story building feels absolutely exhilarating for the first 79 stories, too.

[NDN]

Oh God...all of them?

^^^

That said I voted Iraq.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Tax cuts (second to the beyond obvious War disaster).

You mean the war we've won?

Iraq.  We went in without a plan / a really sucky plan.

We did go in with a plan. But just like in any war "The best plans are ruined upon first contact with the enemy".

Except we certainly did not have "best plans".  We went in with unnecessary haste; we were unprepared for anything except the optimistic scenario Rumsfeld and his cronies came up with; and most importantly we went in with an idiot as Secretary of Defense.  Even assuming that the intelligence about WMD had been correct, we had no reason to start the actual invasion until we were proprly prepared to go in and take control.  Once Turkey decided that it was not going to allow us to invade from the north, we should have stepped back and rethought the strategy that was to be used.  Instead, because the idiots in their comfy offices in the Pentagon had already decided upon a date certain, we went in, not concerned at all if we were ready for an occupation because we were going to welcomed with open arms.

Destroying Saddam's military was never in doubt.  Maintaining peace afterwards was.  I supported the invasion at the time because I assumed that the people planning it were competent.  Once Rumsfeld poo-poo-ed the importance of the looting that went on in the aftermath, I no longer felt he was.  That was the point at which I knew we were in for a long hard difficult slog in Iraq, far more difficult than it should have been.

[Хahar 🤔]

Politically?

Katrina, no doubt.

[AkSaber]

Except we certainly did not have "best plans".  We went in with unnecessary haste; we were unprepared for anything except the optimistic scenario Rumsfeld and his cronies came up with; and most importantly we went in with an idiot as Secretary of Defense.  Even assuming that the intelligence about WMD had been correct, we had no reason to start the actual invasion until we were proprly prepared to go in and take control.  Once Turkey decided that it was not going to allow us to invade from the north, we should have stepped back and rethought the strategy that was to be used.  Instead, because the idiots in their comfy offices in the Pentagon had already decided upon a date certain, we went in, not concerned at all if we were ready for an occupation because we were going to welcomed with open arms.

But, that was the point, wasn't it? Invade before all the evidence against Iraq was proven to be fabricated. They couldn't take a chance that their justification would be exposed as a forgery. Once that happened, they couldn't occupy the country. Then they can't royally screw up the country so they can manipulate the price of oil, and these big defense contractors don't make lots of profit as well.

[Nym90]

Of your list, only the following actually relate directly to Bush:
- Iraq quagmire
- Katrina response
- U.S. Attorney Firing
- Plamegate
- Tax Cuts in Wartime
- 9-11 Preparedness
- Warrantless Wiretapping, etc.

Of that list, the only items that Bush actually had a hand in:
- Iraq quagmire
- Katrina response
- U.S. Attorney Firing
- Tax Cuts in Wartime
- Warrantless Wiretapping, etc.

Iraq didn't go exactly as planned, but the quagmire (as noted) resulted more in uncontrolable variables than actual planning.  Famous saying of "the best laid plan goes out the window when the first shot is fired" applies here.

Katrina was a failure on multiple levels, primarily on the local and state.  Federal relief supplies could not be driven stationed near the Gulf since the storm kept shifting directions and the government didn't want to put the supplies in harms way (smart move).  After the storm, access to the more highlighted region (aka New Orleans) was hampered by road conditions.  Air support and fleet support made a big impact on how quickly aid was given, but that too had to wait until the storm cleared.

Attorney's is probably the biggest blunder, but only from the PR aspect.  The actual firing was within the law.

There is nothing wrong with the tax cuts, as the economy was still growing during war time, resulting in record tax revenues.

There was nothing wrong with the warrantless wiretapping since it dealt with international calls.

You realize you are the last person in the country who still approves of Bush's job performance, right?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Except we certainly did not have "best plans".  We went in with unnecessary haste; we were unprepared for anything except the optimistic scenario Rumsfeld and his cronies came up with; and most importantly we went in with an idiot as Secretary of Defense.  Even assuming that the intelligence about WMD had been correct, we had no reason to start the actual invasion until we were proprly prepared to go in and take control.  Once Turkey decided that it was not going to allow us to invade from the north, we should have stepped back and rethought the strategy that was to be used.  Instead, because the idiots in their comfy offices in the Pentagon had already decided upon a date certain, we went in, not concerned at all if we were ready for an occupation because we were going to welcomed with open arms.

But, that was the point, wasn't it? Invade before all the evidence against Iraq was proven to be fabricated. They couldn't take a chance that their justification would be exposed as a forgery. Once that happened, they couldn't occupy the country. Then they can't royally screw up the country so they can manipulate the price of oil, and these big defense contractors don't make lots of profit as well.

I'm not quite that cynical, as I think they honestly believed their own propaganda, tho wanting to invade before Saddam made enough concessions to make an invasion untenable politically may well have have entered into their thinking.

[??????????]

Well, it's quite obvious to anyone who doesn't read the lying newspapers that we've pretty much won the Iraq war. The cost was high, monetarily, but overall we won, fair and square. The problem with this country is many on the right and left have picked up the loser mentality pushed on them by the liberals and socialists in this country. Hopefully the loser mentality will be thrown on the rubbish heap of history, where it belongs.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Well, it's quite obvious to anyone who doesn't read the lying newspapers that we've pretty much won the Iraq war. The cost was high, monetarily, but overall we won, fair and square. The problem with this country is many on the right and left have picked up the loser mentality pushed on them by the liberals and socialists in this country. Hopefully the loser mentality will be thrown on the rubbish heap of history, where it belongs.

     Even though we've won, I still would probably call it a terrible blunder, considering that the amount of money spent has made it very much a pyrrhic victory. I mean, we won, but we're now much further into the red as a result. I tend to not like owing money to other countries.

[HardRCafé]

You realize you are the last person in the country who still approves of Bush's job performance, right?

Try again.

[dead0man]

Well, it's quite obvious to anyone who doesn't read the lying newspapers that we've pretty much won the Iraq war. The cost was high, monetarily, but overall we won, fair and square. The problem with this country is many on the right and left have picked up the loser mentality pushed on them by the liberals and socialists in this country. Hopefully the loser mentality will be thrown on the rubbish heap of history, where it belongs.

Except if the war was run properly, ya know, with a plan, it wouldn't have been such a disaster.  We* didn't have any clear goals.  We tried to use the US Army and Marine Corp as a police force.  We were shocked, shocked to find out the Shia and Sunni didn't care much for each other.  

What we should have done, assuming knocking off Saddam was the ultimate goal of the invasion**, would have been to topple his govt and then let the rest of the world community (read UN) come in and over see elections and then get the funk out of there.  We don't need more bases in the region, we have plenty.

If we don't want to be seen as an empire, we shouldn't act like we're trying to be one.


*By "we" I mean the West at large, not just the US.



**That was a good and noble thing to do.  Saddam was a douche.  But he's far from the only douche that needs to be removed from power in the world.  If we're going to knock him off there are a dozen or so other nations that could use a regime change as well.  If we want to play world police and "save" the downtrodden everywhere, we should do it everywhere that needs it, not just the places with oil.  Not just the places who may (or may not) be trying to acquire WMDs.  The children dying in Sudan deserve to be saved much more than the oil in Iraq does.

[MODU]

You realize you are the last person in the country who still approves of Bush's job performance, right?

hahaha . . . possibly, but that's because I don't follow the herd. 

[Tetro Kornbluth]

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Doesn't that show the stupidity of going into Iraq in the first place.

The war right now is calming now and has been calming down for a quite a while now. But only an idiot who hasn't been paying any attention will claim it can't flare up again, or that the current situation is 100% stable and secure.

Anyway, the answer depends on how you define 'blunder'. Without a doubt though his willingness to expand the state over the lives of citizens to a much greater extend than before is I think going to be one part of his legacy which gets little recoginition and he should damned all the way to Hades for it.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Easily the current economic crisis, as you'll see in the next few months.  And think Bush didn't help start this?  Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW9viaJatpo

[??????????]

Easily the current economic crisis, as you'll see in the next few months.  And think Bush didn't help start this?  Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW9viaJatpo

Blaming everything on Bush is not only kooky but disconnected from the reality.

[opebo]

He was a huge success in everything he did - I just don't like anything he did.  Seriously, folks, he's been one of the most successful presidents in history at serving the interests of those he represents - the very wealthy.  To top off this general policy success, particularly well connected portions of this class recieved untold billions in stolen money from the Iraq 'war' (it was really more of an opportunity for corruption than a war). 

Really Bush's only failure is that he advanced the rightwing agenda so far that even the ignorant american working class is beginning to notice how much they are harmed by this.. thus Bush has made it somewhat likely that his replacement may only be a center-right Democrat instead of another extreme rightist.  Still, this is a small price to pay for his enormous success over just eight years.

[JSojourner]

He was a huge success in everything he did - I just don't like anything he did.  Seriously, folks, he's been one of the most successful presidents in history at serving the interests of those he represents - the very wealthy.  To top off this general policy success, particularly well connected portions of this class recieved untold billions in stolen money from the Iraq 'war' (it was really more of an opportunity for corruption than a war). 

Really Bush's only failure is that he advanced the rightwing agenda so far that even the ignorant american working class is beginning to notice how much they are harmed by this.. thus Bush has made it somewhat likely that his replacement may only be a center-right Democrat instead of another extreme rightist.  Still, this is a small price to pay for his enormous success over just eight years.

He was a success in the sense that his policies helped move us toward the conservative wet dream of "slaying the beast" that is government.  I consider that evil.  But I guess he was successful in doing it.

[NDN]

He was a success in the sense that his policies helped move us toward the conservative wet dream of "slaying the beast" that is government.  I consider that evil.  But I guess he was successful in doing it.

Maybe. But let's look at his in-office record. He failed to get social security privatized. He added billions in discretionary spending, entitlement spending, etc. He ballooned the deficit and debt. And he created whole new departments to spy on Americans. Not to mention under him the consensus now by both parties increasingly is that we need more economic regulation and intervention. Bush did more to advance a larger government than any President in the last 40 years.