Mideast Assembly Thread

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Hang on - still in discussion phase (sorry - should've made that clearer), unless we all like it as is, then I'll go ahead and start voting.

[California8429]

Is there anything in the budget we can cut, even unrelated yet wasteful, so we don't have to move to toll roads.

Tolling roads decreases transportation use and indirectly, trade and a stronger economy.

If we are to toll roads, I think we should have an extremely efficent and constantly updated highway going east to west that will be attractive and only those that use it pay for it (so it pays for itself) and we can reduce traffic and wear on other roads and highways.

Just a thought

[big bad fab]

I wanted to put forward a bill scratching and "greening" agricultural subsidies, but I'm too busy in RL.

The bill is good for me like this.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I'm perfectly happy with the new bill, and hopefully we can pass it soon, not only to get people to work but also to start fixing our infrastructure system.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Alright, voting is now open on this bill.  This will be a 48 hour vote.  HappyWarrior, I will accept your vote of AYE as valid:

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[Kaine for Senate '18]

AYE.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

AYE

[California8429]

AYE

But I do not wish for any more tax increases in any area then necessary as they will hold back our economy, however transportation is one top priority of the government I believe should be fully funded

[HappyWarrior]

AYE

[big bad fab]

AYE

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

On the final vote for The Infrastructure Renovation Act:

The AYEs are 5, and the NAYs are 0.  The AYEs have it.  The bill is transmitted to the Governor for his veto or signature.

Next up for debate is:

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After that we have this on the docket:

A RESOLUTION CONCERNING INVASIVE SPECIES-NEED FOR A ERADICATION OF KUDZU

[HappyWarrior]

NAY

[California8429]

There's also some Medicaid waste cuts we can put in too....


1. Prescription drugs purchased by the Mideast government must be the cheapest drug on the government Prescription Drugs website that provides for specific needs.
2. The Mideast will not cover the cost of any procedure, operation or prescriptions for an abortion, smoking or drug related illness or cosmetic surgery.


Part of a Health Care Bill I've been working on to cut waste and improve quality

[California8429]

NAY

May I ask what you disagree with in the bill?

[HappyWarrior]

NAY

May I ask what you disagree with in the bill?

Large tax breaks at this time are simply untenable.  I'd love to lower taxes but its just not something which can be done in such a crisis.

[big bad fab]

Sorry, my fellow Assemblyman A-Bob, it's always easier to comment and criticize than to act.
I'm pretty unactive during this Assembly, contrary to the previous one. But, on your "big" bill, I wanted to be a bit more precise.
Generally speaking, I'm rather on the side on NAY.
But with some changes, I may be gained to the AYE.

GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job in the current fiscal year will be given a $5,000 corporate tax credit.
This is far too expensive and, of course, many businesses will take this opportunity and won't create more jobs.
I can vote for this only if it would apply to small businesses (less than 10 employees or even less, e.g.), because there, you are sure, they really create a new job.

2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
It's OK for me.

3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 10%, the lowest internationally. The loss of corporate tax revenue gained by the Mideast will be made up with the creation of new jobs and decrease of unemployment benefits.
Far too expensive and with no big effect, as taxes aren't at all the main criteria to decide to create a business somewhere and as the drop won't equate many more jobs.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 20% for incomes over $500,000 and 40% for incomes under $500,000.
We can't afford this either.

5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of education to receive a GED, job training, work or community service for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
I'm not sure to have grasped the first part of the first sentence. I may agree.
I'm very favourable to the second sentence.

6.   Cut income tax to 6% for those making less than $12,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 11% for those making between $12,000-$35,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 17% for those making between $35,000-$80,000. Cut the income tax to 22% for those making between $80,000-$150,000.
We can't afford this. And this is always a one-shot weapon and so hard to go back...

SECTION 2:
7.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
OK, fine.

8.   A one year hiring freeze will take effect. The Mideast cannot total more workers in the government then that of the passage of this bill. If an employee is fired, a different position is allowed to be created instead of replacing that former employee.
I disagree because of my previous bill which has forbidden government to replace more than 50% of its employees retiring: that's enough for the moment.

9.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that do not grow crops.
I'm not sure to understand: farms which breed cattle or fish, which grow fruits and vegetable can't be helped any longer ? I'd disagree.

10.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
OK

11.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
That should be an amendment to my Public Procurement Policy Law, which seems to be enough on the matter to me.

12.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year.
We may be forced to do it for emergency, security, protection of people, of health or of environment reasons. We must be careful on this.

13.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 2 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 5 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
Some R&D projects requires far longer periods. The idea is good, but we should amend it to make it more realistic.

14.   All Mideast funds to sanctuary cities, that knowingly hold and protect illegal peoples, shall be kept by the Mideast government or returned to the people of the Mideast.
What are those cities ?

15.   Eliminate any Mideast government job deemed unnecessary by “Government Employment Committee”.
OK if it's written "as soon as possible".

[big bad fab]

I put forward the
Mideast Abortion III Bill

Unique clause - Clause 1 of Mideast Abortion Statute II is hereby modified to read: "No abortion shall be permitted except in the case of threat of the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape and/or incest".


As you can see, the words "after the first trimester of pregnancy" are erased in my proposal.
When the bill comes to debate, I'll explain this.

This is probably my last political act in this Assembly.

[Badger]

Sorry, my fellow Assemblyman A-Bob, it's always easier to comment and criticize than to act.
I'm pretty unactive during this Assembly, contrary to the previous one. But, on your "big" bill, I wanted to be a bit more precise.
Generally speaking, I'm rather on the side on NAY.
But with some changes, I may be gained to the AYE.

GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job in the current fiscal year will be given a $5,000 corporate tax credit.
This is far too expensive and, of course, many businesses will take this opportunity and won't create more jobs.
I can vote for this only if it would apply to small businesses (less than 10 employees or even less, e.g.), because there, you are sure, they really create a new job.

2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
It's OK for me.

3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 10%, the lowest internationally. The loss of corporate tax revenue gained by the Mideast will be made up with the creation of new jobs and decrease of unemployment benefits.
Far too expensive and with no big effect, as taxes aren't at all the main criteria to decide to create a business somewhere and as the drop won't equate many more jobs.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 20% for incomes over $500,000 and 40% for incomes under $500,000.
We can't afford this either.

5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of education to receive a GED, job training, work or community service for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
I'm not sure to have grasped the first part of the first sentence. I may agree.
I'm very favourable to the second sentence.

6.   Cut income tax to 6% for those making less than $12,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 11% for those making between $12,000-$35,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 17% for those making between $35,000-$80,000. Cut the income tax to 22% for those making between $80,000-$150,000.
We can't afford this. And this is always a one-shot weapon and so hard to go back...

SECTION 2:
7.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
OK, fine.

8.   A one year hiring freeze will take effect. The Mideast cannot total more workers in the government then that of the passage of this bill. If an employee is fired, a different position is allowed to be created instead of replacing that former employee.
I disagree because of my previous bill which has forbidden government to replace more than 50% of its employees retiring: that's enough for the moment.

9.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that do not grow crops.
I'm not sure to understand: farms which breed cattle or fish, which grow fruits and vegetable can't be helped any longer ? I'd disagree.

10.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
OK

11.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
That should be an amendment to my Public Procurement Policy Law, which seems to be enough on the matter to me.

12.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year.
We may be forced to do it for emergency, security, protection of people, of health or of environment reasons. We must be careful on this.

13.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 2 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 5 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
Some R&D projects requires far longer periods. The idea is good, but we should amend it to make it more realistic.

14.   All Mideast funds to sanctuary cities, that knowingly hold and protect illegal peoples, shall be kept by the Mideast government or returned to the people of the Mideast.
What are those cities ?

15.   Eliminate any Mideast government job deemed unnecessary by “Government Employment Committee”.
OK if it's written "as soon as possible".

You invited suggestions, A-Bob (presumably from mere constituents as well)? OK, you asked for it....

> All the provisions here involving numbers with tax cuts/credits and the like needs an analysis by the GM before the region acts on this. FWIW, baring contrary figures from the GM's office I tend to agree with Happy & Fab that this is likely much too expensive.

> An all-encompassing bill sometimes is good, but this seems too far reaching and disjointed to be held together in one act. This should be split into at minimum two separate bills: One dealing with the tax cuts/credits, the other dealing with the proposed reforms of the government acquisition/regulatory process. Section 1, Para 5 could also easily be a separate bill, as could the Section 2 provisions regarding farm subsidies and government land purchases. Paragraph 14 is an entirely seperate can of worms too. By trying to cram everything in to a single measure, though, it makes the issues too unwieldy to properly debate, and overwhelms the time and attention of the Assembly and GM by putting this all on the table at one time.

> Fab's comments on parags 9 & 12 are spot on.

> Parag 2 is something of a mystery. When doesn't a business or company start right after "government forms are completed"? What types of situations or laws do you believe are currently in place to prevent this? I smell unintended consequences here.....

> The reasoning behind Para 12 is similarly unclear. Even assuming there is sound reason for this, there needs to be flexability for situations where a government facility (prison, garage, whatever) needs to be replaced but can't be rebuilt at its current location for whatever reason.

> You realize Parag 7, mandating weekly meetings and the like actually creates more government bureaucracy and time wasting, right?

> The idea of creating a Government Employment Committee to identify and report on possible overlapping of duties and redundancies in government agencies isn't a bad one. Much like Al Gore did with the National Performance Review
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/npr/whoweare/historyofnpr.html

quite successfully I might add.
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/npr/whoweare/historyofnpr.html

The problem here is creating a commission with actual power of firing/hiring in agencies mostly under the executive branch. One can create a commission to prepare a report and recommendations (a good idea which would likely find wide support, IMHO) which can be voted up or down in the Assembly budgetary process and/or implemented by the Governor, but to legislatively create such a body with actual widespread control over executive branch agencies creates serious separation of power legal issues. Not to mention being rather undemocratic to hand over most government agency staffing decisions to an unelected board of appointees.

> Finally, this may just be differences in economic ideology, but as attacking unemployment and a stagnant economy is the imputus of this measure, isn't instituting a government hiring freeze and ending all "non-crop" farm subsidies contrary to these goals, and could well counteract positive economic effects of the proposed tax cuts?

[HappyWarrior]

Wouldn't the measure eliminating all non-crop farm subsidies possibly get rid of the algae farming bill by superseding it?

[California8429]

Wouldn't the measure eliminating all non-crop farm subsidies possibly get rid of the algae farming bill by superseding it?

sorry for the unclarity of that. What I intended was to end subsidies for inactive farms, those that are paid NOT to grow crops or raise livestock, etc.

Thank you for your recommendations, will work on revising the bill.

[California8429]

Sorry, my fellow Assemblyman A-Bob, it's always easier to comment and criticize than to act.
I'm pretty unactive during this Assembly, contrary to the previous one. But, on your "big" bill, I wanted to be a bit more precise.
Generally speaking, I'm rather on the side on NAY.
But with some changes, I may be gained to the AYE.

GI JANE
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job in the current fiscal year will be given a $5,000 corporate tax credit.
This is far too expensive and, of course, many businesses will take this opportunity and won't create more jobs.
I can vote for this only if it would apply to small businesses (less than 10 employees or even less, e.g.), because there, you are sure, they really create a new job.

2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
It's OK for me.

3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 10%, the lowest internationally. The loss of corporate tax revenue gained by the Mideast will be made up with the creation of new jobs and decrease of unemployment benefits.
Far too expensive and with no big effect, as taxes aren't at all the main criteria to decide to create a business somewhere and as the drop won't equate many more jobs.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 20% for incomes over $500,000 and 40% for incomes under $500,000.
We can't afford this either.

5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of education to receive a GED, job training, work or community service for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
I'm not sure to have grasped the first part of the first sentence. I may agree.
I'm very favourable to the second sentence.

6.   Cut income tax to 6% for those making less than $12,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 11% for those making between $12,000-$35,000 a year. Cut the income tax to 17% for those making between $35,000-$80,000. Cut the income tax to 22% for those making between $80,000-$150,000.
We can't afford this. And this is always a one-shot weapon and so hard to go back...

SECTION 2:
7.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
OK, fine.

8.   A one year hiring freeze will take effect. The Mideast cannot total more workers in the government then that of the passage of this bill. If an employee is fired, a different position is allowed to be created instead of replacing that former employee.
I disagree because of my previous bill which has forbidden government to replace more than 50% of its employees retiring: that's enough for the moment.

9.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that do not grow crops.
I'm not sure to understand: farms which breed cattle or fish, which grow fruits and vegetable can't be helped any longer ? I'd disagree.

10.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
OK

11.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
That should be an amendment to my Public Procurement Policy Law, which seems to be enough on the matter to me.

12.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year.
We may be forced to do it for emergency, security, protection of people, of health or of environment reasons. We must be careful on this.

13.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 2 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 5 years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
Some R&D projects requires far longer periods. The idea is good, but we should amend it to make it more realistic.

14.   All Mideast funds to sanctuary cities, that knowingly hold and protect illegal peoples, shall be kept by the Mideast government or returned to the people of the Mideast.
What are those cities ?

15.   Eliminate any Mideast government job deemed unnecessary by “Government Employment Committee”.
OK if it's written "as soon as possible".

You invited suggestions, A-Bob (presumably from mere constituents as well)? OK, you asked for it....

> All the provisions here involving numbers with tax cuts/credits and the like needs an analysis by the GM before the region acts on this. FWIW, baring contrary figures from the GM's office I tend to agree with Happy & Fab that this is likely much too expensive.

> An all-encompassing bill sometimes is good, but this seems too far reaching and disjointed to be held together in one act. This should be split into at minimum two separate bills: One dealing with the tax cuts/credits, the other dealing with the proposed reforms of the government acquisition/regulatory process. Section 1, Para 5 could also easily be a separate bill, as could the Section 2 provisions regarding farm subsidies and government land purchases. Paragraph 14 is an entirely seperate can of worms too. By trying to cram everything in to a single measure, though, it makes the issues too unwieldy to properly debate, and overwhelms the time and attention of the Assembly and GM by putting this all on the table at one time.

> Fab's comments on parags 9 & 12 are spot on.

> Parag 2 is something of a mystery. When doesn't a business or company start right after "government forms are completed"? What types of situations or laws do you believe are currently in place to prevent this? I smell unintended consequences here.....

> The reasoning behind Para 12 is similarly unclear. Even assuming there is sound reason for this, there needs to be flexability for situations where a government facility (prison, garage, whatever) needs to be replaced but can't be rebuilt at its current location for whatever reason.

> You realize Parag 7, mandating weekly meetings and the like actually creates more government bureaucracy and time wasting, right?

> The idea of creating a Government Employment Committee to identify and report on possible overlapping of duties and redundancies in government agencies isn't a bad one. Much like Al Gore did with the National Performance Review
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/npr/whoweare/historyofnpr.html

quite successfully I might add.
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/npr/whoweare/historyofnpr.html

The problem here is creating a commission with actual power of firing/hiring in agencies mostly under the executive branch. One can create a commission to prepare a report and recommendations (a good idea which would likely find wide support, IMHO) which can be voted up or down in the Assembly budgetary process and/or implemented by the Governor, but to legislatively create such a body with actual widespread control over executive branch agencies creates serious separation of power legal issues. Not to mention being rather undemocratic to hand over most government agency staffing decisions to an unelected board of appointees.

> Finally, this may just be differences in economic ideology, but as attacking unemployment and a stagnant economy is the imputus of this measure, isn't instituting a government hiring freeze and ending all "non-crop" farm subsidies contrary to these goals, and could well counteract positive economic effects of the proposed tax cuts?

Thanks for the input. I posted the bill at the GM, but I would assume an in depth budget anaylsis was not done know the bill would dramatically change and that would cost a lot of work. I will update the bill after this post and we can go from there with some sections eliminated, most modified

[California8429]

GI JANE AMENDMENT
GI JANE will be replaced with the following
Growth. In. Jobs. And. New. Economy.
WHEREAS: Unemployment is at 12.1% in the Mideast with over 7 million citizen unemployed and
WHEREAS: Most citizens are employed in small businesses and consumer confidence is down
BE IT RESOLVED:
SECTION 1:
1.   Any business that creates 1 new job and currently has under 15 employees in the current fiscal year will be given a $2,000 corporate tax credit.
2.   There shall be no waiting period for a business or company to start after government forms are approved.
3.   Drop the corporate tax rate to 22%.
4.   Cut capital gains tax by 3% for incomes over $500,000 and 8% for incomes under $500,000.
5.   Welfare program requires 40 hours a week of, or a combination of, education (to receive a GED), job training, work, or community service, for those that are deemed “fit to work” by the Mideast Government. Every welfare recipient deemed “able to work” must find work within two years of being enrolled in a Mideast welfare program or four years if the recipient is attending education at any level.
6.   Cut income tax to 7% for those making less than $12,000 a year.
SECTION 2:
7.   Departments and committees of government in the Mideast will eliminate overlapping responsibilities, tasks and programs to save tax-payer funding and to guarantee no business has to file or complete the same form or paperwork more than once. Each department and committee will send one representative to a weekly meeting in which they will decide who will have what specific responsibility that they alone will posses. The “Government Employment Committee” headed by an appointee by the Governor, confirmed by the Assembly will lead these meetings.
8.   Eliminate all subsides to farms that are deemed inactive and are paid to not produce or grow crops, livestock, etc.
9.   The Mideast government must buy products and materials to complete projects that are the cheapest on the market when the material is non-essential to safety and not needed for efficiency (examples: toilet, paper clips, hammers)
10.   Projects of the Mideast government carried out by private companies must be chosen based on the cheapest, most efficient budget requested.
11.   Halt Mideast government purchase of land for one year unless in case of emergency related to public health and safety.
12.   Eliminate corporate subsidies for corporations that cannot provide a business plan or execute a plan that will bring in a profit within 3 years or a profit enough to pay off the subsidies in 910years giving the corporation the option time for research, development, innovation and improvement or let a different, profitable, efficient company replace the failing corporation.
13.   The Mideast “Government Employment Committee” will recommend and advise to cut jobs they deem “unneeded” or not beneficial to the Assembly, Governor or any Department or Committee to eliminate.

[HappyWarrior]

well is it not already up for a vote?  Therefore at present time it can not be amended?  Only defeated and resubmitted?

[California8429]

well is it not already up for a vote?  Therefore at present time it can not be amended?  Only defeated and resubmitted?

I can change it to an amendment

[HappyWarrior]

well is it not already up for a vote?  Therefore at present time it can not be amended?  Only defeated and resubmitted?

I can change it to an amendment

I don't think so.  If I remember the Constitution correctly, once a bill is brought to a vote the vote must be done, I guess you could submit an amend it after it passes if it should pass.