Mideast Assembly Thread

[Badger]

I'm sorry Fab, but I remain utterly unconvinced.

What if every business in the Mideast were required to undergo a similar "Assessment report" regardless of profitability, to determine whether it should stay in business? Whether government mandated or by some rogue coalition of stockholders, it would be a burdensome, needless activity that distracts from the goal of the enterprise--making money. Likewise, the proposal here distracts from our own necessary enterprise--making laws.

I think you underestimate, my friend, just how burdensome these Assessment Reports will be. The GM has more than enough on his plate beyond having to reconsider the financial/social/environmental/cultural/sociological impact of every law we've ever passed. Regardless of the amount of time spent here, the amount of time we spend chasing down every law for cost/benefit analysis distracts from the present.

Tell me Fab--specifically--exactly what laws would you seek to repeal or modify at this point due to being extraneous or past their prime?

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Ok so it's unfortunatley apperant that there'll be no resolve on this issue this session. I'm sorry as I know you wanted this to be dealt with before the new Assembly is seated BBF, but there's obviously much more to be debated before this bill is ready for a final vote.

Feel free to keep debating until later today when I adjourn the assembly, but it will have to be tabled after that until the new Assemblymen are seated and a Speaker elected.

BTW, I'm assuming that the last seat will just remain vacant until the court has decided who it really belongs to. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

   

[big bad fab]

I'm sorry Fab, but I remain utterly unconvinced.

What if every business in the Mideast were required to undergo a similar "Assessment report" regardless of profitability, to determine whether it should stay in business? Whether government mandated or by some rogue coalition of stockholders, it would be a burdensome, needless activity that distracts from the goal of the enterprise--making money. Likewise, the proposal here distracts from our own necessary enterprise--making laws.

I think you underestimate, my friend, just how burdensome these Assessment Reports will be. The GM has more than enough on his plate beyond having to reconsider the financial/social/environmental/cultural/sociological impact of every law we've ever passed. Regardless of the amount of time spent here, the amount of time we spend chasing down every law for cost/benefit analysis distracts from the present.

Tell me Fab--specifically--exactly what laws would you seek to repeal or modify at this point due to being extraneous or past their prime?

Your comparison is unfair.

Of course, businesses are CONSTANTLY making re-assessment of their products, services, processes, costs. Of course, this work is necessary because if you don't re-assess yourself at least periodically and never look at the real results, you are sure to make mistakes and to keep on making again and again.

Yes, this is quite a work, but it's work really needed, as we need to be RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE in our legislative work.

Finally, I won't give you any specific example of a law that should be amended after this review, because the aim of the whole exercise is precisely to ascertain it. And I won't do it, because the debate would be too... specific indeed.

Mr. Speaker, I know that our deadline is almost reached, so this proposal will be switched to our new Assembly.
I just want to say that I think my debate with Badger won't go far away (I mean, it's an interesting one but one where we'll probably stick to our original opinions), as it's a principled one and as our fellow Assemblyman won't propose any amendment.
So, at one point, you and the new members of our Assembly should introduce amendments if you wish to, or the proposal will have to be submitted to vote.

Thanks for your attention.
Thanks for this session during which we have worked and debated wholeheartedly !

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Really sorry for being a bit late. I was out enjoying my last full day in Stockholm.

Anyway, let's do this thing.

The 8th Assembly of the Mideast Region is herby adjourned Sine Die. This session is officially ended.

It's been great working with you guys and I will enjoy continuing it in the next Assembly with the additional help of Giovanni and whoever comes out on top from the court case.

Omnis Tuus Castra Sunt Inesse Nos (What ever that means)

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Order!

As Dean of the Assembly I declare the 9th Mideast Assembly in session. I urge my fellow assemblymen to swear in so that we can begin the process of electing a Speaker. Your nominations for the position are welcome.

 

[Badger]

I nominate our current Speaker, Swedish Cheese, to continue the fine work he's been doing in the job already.

[big bad fab]

I nominate our current Speaker, Swedish Cheese, to continue the fine work he's been doing in the job already.

This time, you've managed to be the one who did it, eh ?

I second this.

[Peter]

Omnis Tuus Castra Sunt Inesse Nos (What ever that means)

All your base are belonging to us.

[Badger]

Omnis Tuus Castra Sunt Inesse Nos (What ever that means)

All your base are belonging to us.

That. Is. AWESOME!! (And yes, I get the reference). ;-)

[Badger]

Recent events have demonstrated the need for this amendment to the Mideast Constitution. When a lawsuit is filed, there should be no issue of politics--or accusation of politics--in having to select a justice to hear the case. Nor should there be a delay of several days to a week or more to make the determination of the judge to try the case. (no criticism of Governor Inks' handling of the current case--he handled it as expeditiously as could be expected, but why put a governor through that every time there's a lawsuit filed?).

Therefore:

THE MIDEAST CONSISTENCY IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Mideast Constitution is amended FROM:

"3.A nomination to the Superior Court shall only be held in the event of a need for the adjudication of a case pertaining to Mideast law within the Mideast region. The justice's tenure shall last only as long as needed to resolve the case at hand."

TO:

"3. A nomination to the Superior Court, unless terminated early by resignation or impeachment, shall be subject to reconfirmation by majority vote of the Mideastern Assembly every third session of the Assembly after initial confirmation. Should the Assembly fail to take a vote on renomination of the Superior Court Judge during the session in which the judge is normally subject to reconfirmation, it will act as if the Judge is reconfirmed accordingly. "

The second sentence is added just in case there is a busy session and no one thinks to bring the judge(s) of the Superior Court up for a reconfirmation vote (and if there hasn't been any activity in the Court, that's all too likely a scenario), the Judge will not be automatically out of a job due to the Assembly's oversight. If there is cause for concern about a Judge's performance it will surely be brought up at the session at which the judge is due for reconfirmation.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I predicted problems like these back when we changed the Judge position from a permanent one to a temporary one.  I think the amendment is good.

[big bad fab]

Of course, we need to do something.

My problem is that only one judge isn't much and that it's better to have 3 of them to get more balanced judgements.
But I know there may be not enough active Mideasterners.

It may be hard to have non-Mideasterners as judges (not more than 2 out of 3 though). I'm not saying I'm in favour of this, but I'd like to debate on this because it's worth it and collective intelligence is better...
To begin with, it may be argued that it would be better to have 1 or 2 outsiders to get impartial judgements.

[Badger]

Of course, we need to do something.

My problem is that only one judge isn't much and that it's better to have 3 of them to get more balanced judgements.
But I know there may be not enough active Mideasterners.

It may be hard to have non-Mideasterners as judges (not more than 2 out of 3 though). I'm not saying I'm in favour of this, but I'd like to debate on this because it's worth it and collective intelligence is better...
To begin with, it may be argued that it would be better to have 1 or 2 outsiders to get impartial judgements.

See bold above--I think you hit the nail on the head regarding that proposal.

I'd like to see us move to a semi-permanent justice to start and see how it works. Still, I can't say Fab's proposal might have some merit. Any other thoughts here? The idea of non-Mideasterners being more neutral has some appeal, but wouldn't they lack experience and history in our region's laws compared to a Mideastern judge?

[big bad fab]

Of course, we need to do something.

My problem is that only one judge isn't much and that it's better to have 3 of them to get more balanced judgements.
But I know there may be not enough active Mideasterners.

It may be hard to have non-Mideasterners as judges (not more than 2 out of 3 though). I'm not saying I'm in favour of this, but I'd like to debate on this because it's worth it and collective intelligence is better...
To begin with, it may be argued that it would be better to have 1 or 2 outsiders to get impartial judgements.

See bold above--I think you hit the nail on the head regarding that proposal.

I'd like to see us move to a semi-permanent justice to start and see how it works. Still, I can't say Fab's proposal might have some merit. Any other thoughts here? The idea of non-Mideasterners being more neutral has some appeal, but wouldn't they lack experience and history in our region's laws compared to a Mideastern judge?

TBH, many of us, Mideasterners, precisely lack this experience and history...
(When I say "us", it's to include myself and some others, not Badger.)
And I don't think we'd create this job just to appoint Peter permanently: even if he may be the first permanent judge, after him, there will be others...

What is more, having a outsider view may well bring other points of comparison, other legal and court practices, other precedents and examples, which may well be an asset when judging on Mideastern matters.

To continue my arguing,
- I'm always disturbed when there is only one judge, especially on constitutional matters (for electoral disputes, that's less a problem). We should aim at balanced and strongly-based judgements.
- But, to have 3 fair, clever and experienced judges, we would be forced to slash the Assembly... or, at least, the candidates to the Assembly... or the potential governors...
- Hence my proposal of non-Mideasterners.

Now that Peter is in function, I can say that I've personally suggested to our Governor (before having read our Constitution...) to nominate Peter, Gustaf and Smid: just an example of what would be a fine court in the Mideast, with 2 fair and clever outsiders (again, it's just an example; people have to agree...).

As Badger has said, any other thoughts ?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I don't like the idea of having outsiders as Judges for the Mideast.

[Badger]

While there are some cons to your suggestion Fab, there's definitely some merit as well. That said, my suggestion would be to take things incrimentally. I say lets transition to a semi-permenant CJO and see how that works. We can implement further changes down the road, especially if there are still shortcomings in a single judge system.

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Of course, we need to do something.

My problem is that only one judge isn't much and that it's better to have 3 of them to get more balanced judgements.
But I know there may be not enough active Mideasterners.

It may be hard to have non-Mideasterners as judges (not more than 2 out of 3 though). I'm not saying I'm in favour of this, but I'd like to debate on this because it's worth it and collective intelligence is better...
To begin with, it may be argued that it would be better to have 1 or 2 outsiders to get impartial judgements.

That isn't the only problem. It also doesn't make sense, if you consider that the Supreme Court itself has only three members.

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Further I think that having people from other regions as Mideast judges, although well intentioned, wouldn't be a good idea. It's somewhat like the Supreme Court having someone who is not an Atlasian citizen.

[Хahar 🤔]

The problem here is how few Atlasians have legal training.

[big bad fab]

OK, dear Governor, my fellow Assemblymen (effective and in-waiting),
you've convinced me.
In fact, as I myself have underlined, I wasn't so sure about my proposal: I wanted to see it debated a bit.

So, I can already say that the amendment proposed by Badger receives my agreement.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I worry about Badger's proposal somewhat too though.  On the one hand, making it so that he needs to be reconfirmed could add political feelings of the Assembly into the mix.  On the other hand, if he's in for life, and he starts making bad decisions, it allows us to get rid of him.

But in the U.S., once you're in, you're in for life.

[Badger]

I worry about Badger's proposal somewhat too though.  On the one hand, making it so that he needs to be reconfirmed could add political feelings of the Assembly into the mix.  On the other hand, if he's in for life, and he starts making bad decisions, it allows us to get rid of him.

But in the U.S., once you're in, you're in for life.

Exactly governor. I thought this would be a reasonable balance between the two.

[Purple State]

The current layout of the government in the Mideast was pretty well thought out when we made it such about a year ago. Call me an old, nostalgic fart, but I do caution against the sudden wave of expanding the Mideast government with more and more positions.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The current layout of the government in the Mideast was pretty well thought out when we made it such about a year ago. Call me an old, nostalgic fart, but I do caution against the sudden wave of expanding the Mideast government with more and more positions.

Well, if we're arguing for nostalgia, we'd reinstate the position; however, I do agree with the GM.  We've seen in the past what happens when we inflate the government - we end up scrabling to find candidates to run, and we have people filling positions they really don't want.

[Purple State]

The current layout of the government in the Mideast was pretty well thought out when we made it such about a year ago. Call me an old, nostalgic fart, but I do caution against the sudden wave of expanding the Mideast government with more and more positions.

Well, if we're arguing for nostalgia, we'd reinstate the position; however, I do agree with the GM.  We've seen in the past what happens when we inflate the government - we end up scrabling to find candidates to run, and we have people filling positions they really don't want.

Well nostalgia for us relative new-comers.