Thursday Democratic National Convention running commentary thread

[Robespierre's Jaw]

OK, the music was...an odd choice.  I'll grant you that.

I concur. Those guys who selected Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA to play upon the conclusion of Obama's acceptance speech do know what the song is about don't they? It makes as much sense as Ronald Reagan using it in 1984, when it had to do with the hardships of returning Vietnam veterans. If anything, they should have played the Doobie Brothers' What a fool Believes after his acceptance speech, not Born in the USA.

[JSojourner]

if yall wanted specifics I think you've got 'em

Both he and Senator Clinton have been FAR more specific than McCain, since the early days of the primary.  No question none of them have offered much...but such are political campaigns.  No pol offers specifics to any significant degree.  What's clear is that Obama has offered a very basic, bare-bones blueprint.  McCain has barely put forth some doodles on a cocktail napkin.  I'd prefer more from both, but Obama has unquestionably gone farther.

[Flying Dog]

As I said earlier, I love the design of the facade on stage, very neo-classical, nazi-esque.  All the people cheering exact same thing, and columns and stadium atmosphere really take me back to Nuremberg in 1936.

Yep.  The days of torture, wiretapping, lack of due process and invading countries that never attacked you in the first place.  Sends me back, too.

You sure as Hell don't end oppression by going hard in the other direction.

I just got home, I was only able to catch the tail-end of Obama's speech but even then I could see that it wasn't just his usual stump speech. Plus, given the fact that most Republicans are giving the speech basically a B, then it probably deserves an A-, at least. Adding to that, seeing that the primary complaint still seems to be the stage, then it must have been uber-successful.

[Keystone Phil]

Plus, given the fact that most Republicans are giving the speech basically a B, then it probably deserves an A-, at least

So when you give McCain's speech a C, it's really an A+?   

[JSojourner]

I love the comments about how we need to put aside these nasty, partisan attacks when Obama started off his speech by tearing into McCain. Then he follows up his call for "change" with, "So let me tell you something, John McCain..."

Right.  Because when Republicans say Democrats hate America because they don't wear a flag pin, that's just honorably pointing to the differences between the candidates.  But when Democrats say Republicans fought the wrong war in the wrong place, that's just pure partisan hackery.

[HardRCafé]

If anything, they should have played the Doobie Brothers' What a fool Believes after his acceptance speech, not Born in the USA.

I'd be OK with that.  Not to mention, they can sing.

[Flying Dog]

Plus, given the fact that most Republicans are giving the speech basically a B, then it probably deserves an A-, at least

So when you give McCain's speech a C, it's really an A+?   

If I grade McCain on the same scale I grade Obama, maybe....

[JSojourner]

As I said earlier, I love the design of the facade on stage, very neo-classical, nazi-esque.  All the people cheering exact same thing, and columns and stadium atmosphere really take me back to Nuremberg in 1936.

Yep.  The days of torture, wiretapping, lack of due process and invading countries that never attacked you in the first place.  Sends me back, too.

You sure as Hell don't end oppression by going hard in the other direction.

Right.  You end oppression by being ready to blast it to smithereens.  While negotiating with it.  Kinda like Reagan did.  But the neocons actually called him an appeaser for talking to Gorbachev back in the day, too.  So it's surely no surprise they think Obama is.

[Keystone Phil]

I love the comments about how we need to put aside these nasty, partisan attacks when Obama started off his speech by tearing into McCain. Then he follows up his call for "change" with, "So let me tell you something, John McCain..."

Right.  Because when Republicans say Democrats hate America because they don't wear a flag pin, that's just honorably pointing to the differences between the candidates.  But when Democrats say Republicans fought the wrong war in the wrong place, that's just pure partisan hackery.

Right because many Republicans, including myself, have said that Democrats hate America.

Get a clue, dude. You've really become a worthless hack.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

If anything, they should have played the Doobie Brothers' What a fool Believes after his acceptance speech, not Born in the USA.

I'd be OK with that.  Not to mention, they can sing.

I find that Bruce Springsteen has a habit of talking instead of singing, whilst Michael McDonald he's a man that can reach those high notes, especially in What a fool Believes. Hell, I cannot even understand what he's saying half the time . Anywho, nobody can beat Michael McDonald's beard, especially when it was healthy looking in film clips for that 1979 Doobie Brothers hit. If they played that song at the DNC then Obama's election would be wrapped up right now.

[12th Doctor]

Wow... CNN is sucking Obama's dick hardcore.  I don't mean to crass, but that's exactly what its like.

[Flying Dog]

Wow... CNN is sucking Obama's dick hardcore.  I don't mean to crass, but that's exactly what its like.

Nah, it's just foreplay.

[JSojourner]

I love the comments about how we need to put aside these nasty, partisan attacks when Obama started off his speech by tearing into McCain. Then he follows up his call for "change" with, "So let me tell you something, John McCain..."

Right.  Because when Republicans say Democrats hate America because they don't wear a flag pin, that's just honorably pointing to the differences between the candidates.  But when Democrats say Republicans fought the wrong war in the wrong place, that's just pure partisan hackery.

Right because many Republicans, including myself, have said that Democrats hate America.

Get a clue, dude. You've really become a worthless hack.

President Bush has said Democrats hate America.  John McCain has said it.  Dick Cheney has said it.

All the GOP talking heads have said it.  Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Bill Kristol, Karl Rove, James Dobson, Michael Reagan, Michael Savage, Ann Coulter...shall I go on?  These clowns have used the actual words.  But the pols have said it too, just using different syntax.

When Republicans say, "Democrats want America to LOSE in Iraq" they are saying Democrats hate America.

When they say Barack Obama is ashamed of the American flag, they are saying he hates America.

When they said Max Cleland is no different than Osama bin Laden, they were saying he hated America.

That's exactly what most Republicans have been saying for the last eight years. Sometimes the exact words, sometimes prettied up...but that's the upshot of it, Skippy.  Sorry you think I'm a worthless hack but there's no other way to interpret it.

I'll say one thing for Vander Blubb and some of the others here.  At least they man-up and own it.  They really believe Democrats hate America and they're pleased as punch most Republicans have been saying it.  They just wish they'd say it louder.

[ChrisFromNJ]

Ok, I'm not the most emotional guy.

And I'm usually not a big fan of Obama's speeches. Too little substance and too much pie in the sky rhetoric.

But it's hard not to get emotional at what we saw today. That was a beautiful speech. It makes you think how far we've came. Just look at where we were 40 years ago.

I usually hate these f'ing sentimental moments, but this is really something.

[Keystone Phil]

President Bush has said Democrats hate America.  John McCain has said it.  Dick Cheney has said it

Give me the exact quotes. Otherwise, shut up.

When Republicans say, "Democrats want America to LOSE in Iraq" they are saying Democrats hate America.

When they say Barack Obama is ashamed of the American flag, they are saying he hates America.

When they said Max Cleland is no different than Osama bin Laden, they were saying he hated America.

That's exactly what most Republicans have been saying for the last eight years. Sometimes the exact words, sometimes prettied up...but that's the upshot of it, Skippy.  Sorry you think I'm a worthless hack but there's no other way to interpret it.

Ok, hack! We know that you haven't completed stretched things in the past so we'll just take your word!

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Yeah, remember when you pulled that on me earlier? Calling me a racist and just afraid to admit it? I think you ought to shut the mouth on this one, too. You don't want to go down that road with me again.

[JSojourner]

President Bush has said Democrats hate America.  John McCain has said it.  Dick Cheney has said it

Give me the exact quotes. Otherwise, shut up.

When Republicans say, "Democrats want America to LOSE in Iraq" they are saying Democrats hate America.

When they say Barack Obama is ashamed of the American flag, they are saying he hates America.

When they said Max Cleland is no different than Osama bin Laden, they were saying he hated America.

That's exactly what most Republicans have been saying for the last eight years. Sometimes the exact words, sometimes prettied up...but that's the upshot of it, Skippy.  Sorry you think I'm a worthless hack but there's no other way to interpret it.

Ok, hack! We know that you haven't completed stretched things in the past so we'll just take your word!

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Yeah, remember when you pulled that on me earlier? Calling me a racist and just afraid to admit it? I think you ought to shut the mouth on this one, too. You don't want to go down that road with me again.

You said Obama was arrogant.  I said a lot of people who say that really mean, "uppity".  Which is code.  Perhaps you meant uppity.  Perhaps not.  That's between you and your conscience.

As to the first remark, that I have "completely stretched things" in the past...I am sincerely not sure what you mean.  But if you mean that I have "reached" too far in making a point or exaggerated, you bet.  I won't argue that in the least.  I also don't deny being a partisan.  I hope no one was under any delusions that I am both a Democrat and a pretty damned liberal one.

What I would like people in the forum to acknowledge is that many, or even most, Republicans have said...and do believe...that Democrats (aside from a few "good ones" like Zell Miller)....hate America. I admit... I could have wax in my ears.  But I am not hearing most Democrats say the same thing about Republicans. 

[12th Doctor]

Wow... Ben Stein is on the offensive.

[Keystone Phil]

You said Obama was arrogant.  I said a lot of people who say that really mean, "uppity".  Which is code.  Perhaps you meant uppity.  Perhaps not.  That's between you and your conscience.

No, you said that I meant uppity. You were calling me racist and said that I had no backbone to admit it. Don't say that you didn't make accussations and that it's just up to me and my conscience.

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Ok so let's say that we say that Democrats hate American. You don't say that we hate the poor, the sick, the elderly, the disabled, etc.?

People in glasses houses...

[J. J.]

You said Obama was arrogant.  I said a lot of people who say that really mean, "uppity".  Which is code.  Perhaps you meant uppity.  Perhaps not.  That's between you and your conscience.

I'm not sure what you mean by "uppity," but "arrogant" may be not to actually anyone for their votes.

[NOVA Green]

I love the comments about how we need to put aside these nasty, partisan attacks when Obama started off his speech by tearing into McCain. Then he follows up his call for "change" with, "So let me tell you something, John McCain..."

Right.  Because when Republicans say Democrats hate America because they don't wear a flag pin, that's just honorably pointing to the differences between the candidates.  But when Democrats say Republicans fought the wrong war in the wrong place, that's just pure partisan hackery.

Right because many Republicans, including myself, have said that Democrats hate America.

Get a clue, dude. You've really become a worthless hack.

That's funny coming from you Phil....

[Keystone Phil]

I love the comments about how we need to put aside these nasty, partisan attacks when Obama started off his speech by tearing into McCain. Then he follows up his call for "change" with, "So let me tell you something, John McCain..."

Right.  Because when Republicans say Democrats hate America because they don't wear a flag pin, that's just honorably pointing to the differences between the candidates.  But when Democrats say Republicans fought the wrong war in the wrong place, that's just pure partisan hackery.

Right because many Republicans, including myself, have said that Democrats hate America.

Get a clue, dude. You've really become a worthless hack.

That's funny coming from you Phil....

I have criticized my party and candidates from my party plenty of times. I urge new members not to make such assumptions.

[JSojourner]

You said Obama was arrogant.  I said a lot of people who say that really mean, "uppity".  Which is code.  Perhaps you meant uppity.  Perhaps not.  That's between you and your conscience.

No, you said that I meant uppity. You were calling me racist and said that I had no backbone to admit it. Don't say that you didn't make accussations and that it's just up to me and my conscience.

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Ok so let's say that we say that Democrats hate American. You don't say that we hate the poor, the sick, the elderly, the disabled, etc.?

People in glasses houses...

Did you mean uppity?  Yeah, I think you did. If you meant arrogant and elitist because he went to Harvard or because he's rich or because of his guns and religion comment, then I apologize and I admit I was wrong.  

As to saying Republicans hate the poor...some Democrats DO say that.  And it grieves me.

Because I don't believe Republicans hate the poor, the elderly, etc.  At least not most Republicans.  Not most conservatives.  If there are any who hate the poor -- openly or secretly -- I suspect they are truly few in number.

If anything, I think most conservatives and most Republicans really want to help the poor and disadvantaged.  I think they're completely wrong in how they would go about it.  I am convinced they really believe trickle down is the best and most reliable way of helping.  A rising tide lifts all boats.  I get it.  And I think for many of them, that comes from a place of good intentions.  I just think the idea is all wrong.  

What I have to wonder is why so many prominent Republicans and Conservatives cannot say the same thing about Democrats and their love of America?  Why must they insist we want the troops to fail...we want America to fail...we are "surrender monkeys" and cut and run cowards?  Can't they just say, "Our Democratic foes love America, they respect the troops...but they are wrong in wanting to leave Iraq."  And then just leave it at that?

I am sure that's what some Republicans say.  Maybe you are one of them.  But what I keep hearing is quite the opposite.  McCain's speech to the VFW was classic.  If I remember it correctly, he said the Democrats want America to fail...they want America to lose and they want the troops to leave Iraq covered in defeat.

[NOVA Green]

I love the comments about how we need to put aside these nasty, partisan attacks when Obama started off his speech by tearing into McCain. Then he follows up his call for "change" with, "So let me tell you something, John McCain..."

Right.  Because when Republicans say Democrats hate America because they don't wear a flag pin, that's just honorably pointing to the differences between the candidates.  But when Democrats say Republicans fought the wrong war in the wrong place, that's just pure partisan hackery.

Right because many Republicans, including myself, have said that Democrats hate America.

Get a clue, dude. You've really become a worthless hack.

That's funny coming from you Phil....

I have criticized my party and candidates from my party plenty of times. I urge new members not to make such assumptions.

I am not a Democrat, nor have I voted for Democrat for President since I began voting in '92, with the exception of '04 after I lost a friend in Iraq. Quite frankly as someone who is not a partisan, I think that at times you go overboard because of your mainstream partisan political sympathies and enthusiasm for the play-by-play nature of Presidential elections and distrust of the opposition.

Granted at times you  like I tend to play devil's advocate and encourage debate (particularly concerning PA ethnic voters ), however there is a time for backing away from party talking points and looking at the situation from a macro perspective.

Maybe I'm just having a bad night on a personal level and am being unfair, but just wanted to give the legendary Phil a little feedback.

[Flying Dog]

Phil.... legendary??? Ha! What have you been drinking?

[J. J.]

You said Obama was arrogant.  I said a lot of people who say that really mean, "uppity".  Which is code.  Perhaps you meant uppity.  Perhaps not.  That's between you and your conscience.

No, you said that I meant uppity. You were calling me racist and said that I had no backbone to admit it. Don't say that you didn't make accussations and that it's just up to me and my conscience.

Ah, I just checked the NYT and Obama didn't well ask, ah, well anyone to vote for him.  I wouldn't call that "uppity," but a bit "presumptive" or "arrogant."