Tories keep double digit lead over Labour.
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  Tories keep double digit lead over Labour.
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Author Topic: Tories keep double digit lead over Labour.  (Read 2566 times)
Cubby
Pim Fortuyn
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2008, 11:29:32 PM »

This thread is okay. But if you follow British politics, then its old news. I knew the Tories were leading by double digits, but didn't know the exact numbers.

It's a new poll which was just released after a the hatching of a new "scandal" in British politics. Please stop hinting that anyone who "actually follows" this stuff sees this as "old news." The fact that they are leading by double digits might not be new but the fact that they are maintaining that lead is worthy of discussion.

I wasn't hinting anything. I certainly don't follow British politics very closely. I don't even know what scandal you're refering to. I was agreeing with your decision to post it, not that you need approval for it.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2008, 11:36:00 PM »

This thread is okay. But if you follow British politics, then its old news. I knew the Tories were leading by double digits, but didn't know the exact numbers.

It's a new poll which was just released after a the hatching of a new "scandal" in British politics. Please stop hinting that anyone who "actually follows" this stuff sees this as "old news." The fact that they are leading by double digits might not be new but the fact that they are maintaining that lead is worthy of discussion.

I wasn't hinting anything. I certainly don't follow British politics very closely. I don't even know what scandal you're refering to. I was agreeing with your decision to post it, not that you need approval for it.

I misread your post. My apologies.
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Cubby
Pim Fortuyn
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« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2008, 12:04:28 AM »

This thread is okay. But if you follow British politics, then its old news. I knew the Tories were leading by double digits, but didn't know the exact numbers.

It's a new poll which was just released after a the hatching of a new "scandal" in British politics. Please stop hinting that anyone who "actually follows" this stuff sees this as "old news." The fact that they are leading by double digits might not be new but the fact that they are maintaining that lead is worthy of discussion.

I wasn't hinting anything. I certainly don't follow British politics very closely. I don't even know what scandal you're refering to. I was agreeing with your decision to post it, not that you need approval for it.

I misread your post. My apologies.

Don't worry about it.
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Dan the Roman
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« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2008, 11:22:10 PM »

Another example is if John Major had held the election in May 1996 instead of a year later, I would assume (although can't be certain), that Labour's landslide would have been noticably smaller, maybe 390 or so seats instead of 419. The longer you wait, the more resentment builds.

The funny thing is that John Major went with the election in early 1997 because the Conservatives had actually seen an up tick in the polls that winter, which was validated by the local elections that year. All indications are the Tories hit rock bottom in 1995 locals and recovered a bit from there.


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This is always a risky tactic. The Tories tried it in Canada in 1993. Brian Mulroney resigned in favor of Kim Campbell, the Conservatives surged to first in the polls, and they called a snap election. As it turned out this was a mistake. Campbell has been insufficiently vetted under pressure and was a disaster, the campaign was aimless, and the end result was the loss of 159 of the party's 161 seats.

Miliband has not been tested under scrutiny, and while a general election campaign is unlikely to be long enough for him to get his sea legs it may well be long enough for the shine to wear off.

There is also the Scottish factor of dropping a Scotsman from University of Edinburgh in favor of an Oxford man. It removes the one issue Labour might have had against Cameron, his aloofness and background. Miliband is just as much a toff as Cameron, and has done equally little with his life. He has never held a job outside a think tank or politics, and that is one(among many) reasons he has toxic relations with the Unions.
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Right now I support David Cameron, but I'd probably switch back to Labour if Miliband was made leader. I was strongly against Labour's decison to increase the police detention period to 42 days. That is just awful. Its like 24 hours in America. Britain came up with habeus corpus in the first place! The only reason it was passed was so that Brown could look "tough" in front of the voters, yet he'd lose anyway. [/quote]

Miliband is a hardcore Blairite, and I can't imagine the 42-day detention bothers him much. He might drop it out of sheer opportunism, but he is definitely to Brown's right in the party, not his left, and I am not sure that is really Labour's problem right now. If anything, the job of a new leader should be to consolidate the party base, not focus on swing-voters.

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During the 1980s when they were in Alliance with the Social Democratic Party which broke off of Labour on the Right, they actually were over 50% and in first place. The Alliance won 25% of the vote in 1983, only 2% behind Labour on 27%. The Alliance only won 24 seats though, while Labour got 209.

The Lib Dem's problem is the electoral system. There support is spread in such a manner that even if they came first in votes(Ie. 34%, 32%, 32%) they would still be in a distant third place. They need to get up over 40 before they become competitive whereas Labour can win government from the mid 30s.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2008, 07:33:11 AM »

Of course the real irony of this thread is that polls done after Parliament goes on holiday tend to be worth rather less than the newsprint that...

Another example is if John Major had held the election in May 1996 instead of a year later, I would assume (although can't be certain), that Labour's landslide would have been noticably smaller, maybe 390 or so seats instead of 419. The longer you wait, the more resentment builds.

The funny thing is that John Major went with the election in early 1997 because the Conservatives had actually seen an up tick in the polls that winter, which was validated by the local elections that year. All indications are the Tories hit rock bottom in 1995 locals and recovered a bit from there.

See also Alec Douglas-Home in '64. And Major in '92. There's no evidence that waiting the five years actually damages the incumbent government. Historically it was always snap elections that did that.

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Nonsense; by no sane standard can Miliband be described as a toff. He's utterly middle class of course (rending background-bashing rather hard), but that's not the same thing at all.

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The only cabinet minister with actively toxic relations with the Unions (well, with the Union leaderships and activists anyhow) is Hutton. Though, of course, Miliband has no base there. Or with activists. And not much of one in the PLP either. Which is why last weeks rumours and mutterings were so absurd.
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2008, 12:45:51 PM »

If Labour was to dump Brown, who would be the best PM?
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afleitch
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« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2008, 12:48:03 PM »


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Nonsense; by no sane standard can Miliband be described as a toff. He's utterly middle class of course (rending background-bashing rather hard), but that's not the same thing at all.


Quite. Besides the totem toff in the Labour Party is Edward Michael Balls Grin Labour has a tradition of attracting 'toffs' and the upper middle class to the Labour movement and they have been pretty outstanding politicians to the extent that no one gives a damn where they come from. Unless they are not in the Labour Party of course.

However that dog has been put back in his box since Crewe.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2008, 12:52:33 PM »

Of course the real irony of this thread is that polls done after Parliament goes on holiday tend to be worth rather less than the newsprint that...

I love when Al calls someone else a fraud...
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afleitch
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« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2008, 01:11:55 PM »

Of course the real irony of this thread is that polls done after Parliament goes on holiday tend to be worth rather less than the newsprint that...

Up to a point. I only consider polls generally worthless during the conference weeks with last years conference period being a case in point.

Remember last years recess/ 'silly season' corresponded with that brief period Labour were ahead in the polls. We were bombarded with poll after poll. If these polls had no basis, we could assume the Tories really had a lead right through that period and the polls reverted to type by October/November. The polls however were correct in registering a Labour lead and they are correct in registering a Tory lead this summer.

In fact this summer I have been suprised by how steady the polls have been (particular the Tory vote share) Going back further to summer 2006, the polls there also showed stability, particularly after the 'snakes in a tunnel' dead heat between Labour and the Tories that spring.
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