Mayor Boris backs Barack.

[Keystone Phil]

Disappointing - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aTK20y3WQNws&refer=us

[??????????]

[2952-0-0]

Just to let you know, Boris is not black. In fact far from it.

[Franzl]

Just to let you know, Boris is not black. In fact far from it.

I don't really think that's what he was implying..

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That Johnson is as much a disgusting panderer as Livingstone should come as no surprise to anyone.

Yawn.

[Lunar]

Has the definition of "race card" expanded to any mention of race?  I thought this card was reserved for false claims of racial victimization?

You can hardly blame the fact that foreigners probably view this race as largely between a younger, fresher, black candidate and an older, hawkish, white one with the racial characteristics coming into the forefront of the above adjectives.  How could you not?

If I was a foreigner who was not intimate with US politics, of any country, I would view the race in these terms.  Foreigners who are on uselectionatlas.org do not count

[Iosif is a COTHO]

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This is statesrights we're talking about remember. His name should give you a good clue to his feelings on these issues.

[afleitch]

That Johnson is as much a disgusting panderer as Livingstone should come as no surprise to anyone.

Yawn.

True. But I'm rather more comfortable (in fact sod impartiality VERY MUCH MORE) with the sort of people Boris is 'pandering' to if Obama is anything to go by.

[??????????]

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This is statesrights we're talking about remember. His name should give you a good clue to his feelings on these issues.

Thank you for being clueless Mongo.

[The Man From G.O.P.]

Boris is still one of my favourites, let's hope he doesn't get too Londoney.

[Verily]

Just to let you know, Boris is not black. In fact far from it.

No, definitely not black. One of the least black-looking people in politics worldwide, actually. A better B-word for Boris is buffoon, but the people of London knew this when they elected him. (Eh, if I lived in London, who knows, I probably would have left my second preference blank or given it to Sian Berry or something. But probably Boris before Ken.)

[Cubby]

I supported Boris in the Mayoral election. Livingstone was too close to the extremist Muslims and would have supported Sharia law if he thought it would get him elected.

I like the Tories in Britain now. Cameron in '09! (As long as he keeps the pro-Section 28 crowd from speaking. I'm sure there is still a bunch of them, like William Hague and that bitch in the House of Lords who led a campaign against equalizing the age of consent.

Its awesome that he supports Obama.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That Johnson is as much a disgusting panderer as Livingstone should come as no surprise to anyone.

Yawn.

True. But I'm rather more comfortable (in fact sod impartiality VERY MUCH MORE) with the sort of people Boris is 'pandering' to if Obama is anything to go by.

Heh, fair point. Though the process is the same; in order to gain support from/solidify support from/stop being hated by a given group, the Mayor says nice things about someone that they assume that members of that group like. Though, yeah, it's not as though Obama has/would kill large numbers of people for political gain.

[Dan the Roman]

Not a huge surprise that he supports Obama. When I was over at Cambridge for a year, and took part in the Conservative Association , probably half to two-thirds of the membership preferred the Democrats over here. McCain is not the type of figure who would have much appeal in the UK(or anywhere in Europe really, except maybe Denmark).

[Keystone Phil]

probably half to two-thirds of the membership preferred the Democrats over here. McCain is not the type of figure who would have much appeal in the UK(or anywhere in Europe really, except maybe Denmark).

Which is kind of odd since McCain was invited to speak and was well received (as far as I could tell) at a Tory convention of some sort about a year ago.

I figured that McCain would have some appeal in Europe at the very least because of the perception that he's center-right and not exactly from the more extreme wing of the party.

[Lief 🗽]

David Cameron also had some nice things to say about Obama; he gave him a Gorillaz CD, if I remember correctly.

[Keystone Phil]

David Cameron also had some nice things to say about Obama; he gave him a Gorillaz CD, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, typical Cameron - playing every single side to every issue/doing anything that seems popular. Or at least how he's portrayed and seems to be to me. As you can tell, I'm not a fan.

But, in all fairness, you can say plenty of nice things about someone (especially such a high profile guest from America) but still prefer someone else. I still don't know why Obama met with Cameron though. I don't even recall Bush meeting with Cameron or any other Tory leader during his time in office.

[Boris]

I still don't know why Obama met with Cameron though. I don't even recall Bush meeting with Cameron or any other Tory leader during his time in office.

When a foreign leader meets with a head of state from another nation, I believe it is customary to also meet with the leader of the political opposition. So for example, Boris Yeltsin met with Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton during the spring of 1992 when he came to the United States. I'm pretty sure Bush has met with the various opposition leaders during his visits with Blair in the UK.

[Keystone Phil]

I'm pretty sure Bush has met with the various opposition leaders during his visits with Blair in the UK.

Interesting. I simply don't recall this happening. I'll do some research.

[Dan the Roman]

David Cameron also had some nice things to say about Obama; he gave him a Gorillaz CD, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, typical Cameron - playing every single side to every issue/doing anything that seems popular. Or at least how he's portrayed and seems to be to me. As you can tell, I'm not a fan.

But, in all fairness, you can say plenty of nice things about someone (especially such a high profile guest from America) but still prefer someone else. I still don't know why Obama met with Cameron though. I don't even recall Bush meeting with Cameron or any other Tory leader during his time in office.

The Bush Administration actually has as a general matter shown a cold shoulder to the Conservatives. This is due both to the friendly relations the Administration has enjoyed with Blair, and even to a lesser extent Brown, and the fact that a number of Conservatives have very critical of Administration policies ranging from Iraq to Guantanamo, to detention, to Israel Palestine. I believe Bush explicitly refused to meet with Ian Duncan Smith when he was in the country, and the same applied to Howard. I doubt they are much more enamored of Cameron than he is of them

Actually, I think at least until Blair left, Bush probably actually preferred a Labour government in England. I can't really see how anyone could have been more Pro-American than Blair, and his religious faith probably appealed to Bush.

[Dan the Roman]

probably half to two-thirds of the membership preferred the Democrats over here. McCain is not the type of figure who would have much appeal in the UK(or anywhere in Europe really, except maybe Denmark).

Which is kind of odd since McCain was invited to speak and was well received (as far as I could tell) at a Tory convention of some sort about a year ago.

I figured that McCain would have some appeal in Europe at the very least because of the perception that he's center-right and not exactly from the more extreme wing of the party.

From what I saw, It really depends which faction of the Conservatives you are talking about. Ever since 1997 there has been a split between those on the left wing of the party who believed everything bad that happened between 1992-1997 was the result of Margaret Thatcher poisoning the party's politics, and that if the party would move back to the center and elect Ken Clarke leader everything would be better. This tended to be the view of those who were "in" with John Major's government. This wing is the one that both Boris Johnson and Cameron are from, and tends to be Pro-American in orientation, but to believe that while it can be improved, the British system of social support is preferable to anything in the United States, and that the Tories have nothing to learn from the US or the Republican Party. This faction tends to also dominate the elite university Tory groups(or at least Cambridge), but has little grassroots support, sort of like how College Republicans in the US tend to be much more socially liberal than the grassroots.


On the other side were those who believed that everything went wrong because Major abandoned Thatcher's confrontational style, and that what was needed was stand tall in favor of free-market reforms, capitalism, anti-socialism, and generally all things Conservative. This group tends to idolize America, and is enormously impressed with how the US Republicans managed to take positions that would have been unpopular in England, and make them
mainstream. This group also tends to maintain strong social links with US conservative groups.
were both in this wing. John O'Sullivan, the National Review Editor is a good example. William Hague and Ian Duncan Smith

The second faction ran the party from 1997-2004 and ran it into the electoral ground. in 2004 the Party's elder statesman came together and ousted Smith, and replaced him with Michael Howard, who while part of the second group, built up a coalition leadership. He also came to the conclusion after the 2005 elections that Thatcherites-Toryism was a non-starter, especially because it meant that the Tories were unable to take advantage of the Labour governments unpopular policies like Iraq, and public sector reform, because the Tories also supported them. Therefore he did everything in his power to ensure that Cameron succeeded him as leader.

I remember distinctly when McCain came over for the 2006 conference partially because I was over there. A lot of the applause for him was as much a hit on Cameron by Thatcherites as support for McCain himself. Second, most of what McCain said was inoffensive anyway. He barely dwelled on Iraq, and talked about Aids in Africa, and hit the Republicans in congress for spending too much, and quite frankly I applauded too. I doubt he would have gotten anywhere near that applause, even from the Thatcherites if he had made the type of speech he is making this year which is usually at least 70% Iraq. Britain is pulling out of Iraq this year, and no one except for the extreme right wing of the Conservative party and Tony Blair is upset about that.

I think the big thing that suprised me, and I think surprises a lot of Americans, is the position of Thatcher in the Conservative party. Most Republicans draw a line between her and Reagan and assume she occupies a similar role in the Conservative party. She doesn't. She was far more divisive and a lot less popular while in office, and she inflicted enormous damage on her reputation with her behavior towards her successor. As a result she is far more controversial within the Conservative party, and invoking her outside the party is a good way to lose votes.

Now this was my impressions from a year there as an undergraduate in politics and another as a graduate student, so our British posters are welcome to correct me, but this was the impression I got.

[Keystone Phil]

David Cameron also had some nice things to say about Obama; he gave him a Gorillaz CD, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, typical Cameron - playing every single side to every issue/doing anything that seems popular. Or at least how he's portrayed and seems to be to me. As you can tell, I'm not a fan.

But, in all fairness, you can say plenty of nice things about someone (especially such a high profile guest from America) but still prefer someone else. I still don't know why Obama met with Cameron though. I don't even recall Bush meeting with Cameron or any other Tory leader during his time in office.

The Bush Administration actually has as a general matter shown a cold shoulder to the Conservatives. This is due both to the friendly relations the Administration has enjoyed with Blair, and even to a lesser extent Brown, and the fact that a number of Conservatives have very critical of Administration policies ranging from Iraq to Guantanamo, to detention, to Israel Palestine. I believe Bush explicitly refused to meet with Ian Duncan Smith when he was in the country, and the same applied to Howard. I doubt they are much more enamored of Cameron than he is of them

Actually, I think at least until Blair left, Bush probably actually preferred a Labour government in England. I can't really see how anyone could have been more Pro-American than Blair, and his religious faith probably appealed to Bush.

That's what I was thinking. It makes the most sense when you think about it. Why would the Bush administration want anything different? The Labour government was with them on what mattered to them - foreign affairs. It rubbed off on a lot of American conservatives, too. I remember following the results in 2005, obviously cheering for the Tories (though I really like Blair, I have obvious differences with him on other issues) while several Republicans wanted Blair's party to win just because Blair was the leader. Many didn't understand or just didn't care about the differences that we, as conservatives, have with the Labour party. Who can blame them? Their foreign policy is really all that affects us.

It's a shame that Bush refused to meet with Duncan Smith. I love that guy. I don't blame them for not wanting to meet with Cameron though. He seemingly says anything that sounds popular so he at least seems like a huge skeptic of the relationship between the U.S. and the U.K.

[Keystone Phil]

From what I saw, It really depends which faction of the Conservatives you are talking about. Ever since 1997 there has been a split between those on the left wing of the party who believed everything bad that happened between 1992-1997 was the result of Margaret Thatcher poisoning the party's politics, and that if the party would move back to the center and elect Ken Clarke leader everything would be better. This tended to be the view of those who were "in" with John Major's government. This wing is the one that both Boris Johnson and Cameron are from, and tends to be Pro-American in orientation, but to believe that while it can be improved, the British system of social support is preferable to anything in the United States, and that the Tories have nothing to learn from the US or the Republican Party. This faction tends to also dominate the elite university Tory groups(or at least Cambridge), but has little grassroots support, sort of like how College Republicans in the US tend to be much more socially liberal than the grassroots.


On the other side were those who believed that everything went wrong because Major abandoned Thatcher's confrontational style, and that what was needed was stand tall in favor of free-market reforms, capitalism, anti-socialism, and generally all things Conservative. This group tends to idolize America, and is enormously impressed with how the US Republicans managed to take positions that would have been unpopular in England, and make them
mainstream. This group also tends to maintain strong social links with US conservative groups.
were both in this wing. John O'Sullivan, the National Review Editor is a good example. William Hague and Ian Duncan Smith

The second faction ran the party from 1997-2004 and ran it into the electoral ground. in 2004 the Party's elder statesman came together and ousted Smith, and replaced him with Michael Howard, who while part of the second group, built up a coalition leadership. He also came to the conclusion after the 2005 elections that Thatcherites-Toryism was a non-starter, especially because it meant that the Tories were unable to take advantage of the Labour governments unpopular policies like Iraq, and public sector reform, because the Tories also supported them. Therefore he did everything in his power to ensure that Cameron succeeded him as leader.

I remember distinctly when McCain came over for the 2006 conference partially because I was over there. A lot of the applause for him was as much a hit on Cameron by Thatcherites as support for McCain himself. Second, most of what McCain said was inoffensive anyway. He barely dwelled on Iraq, and talked about Aids in Africa, and hit the Republicans in congress for spending too much, and quite frankly I applauded too. I doubt he would have gotten anywhere near that applause, even from the Thatcherites if he had made the type of speech he is making this year which is usually at least 70% Iraq. Britain is pulling out of Iraq this year, and no one except for the extreme right wing of the Conservative party and Tony Blair is upset about that.

I think the big thing that suprised me, and I think surprises a lot of Americans, is the position of Thatcher in the Conservative party. Most Republicans draw a line between her and Reagan and assume she occupies a similar role in the Conservative party. She doesn't. She was far more divisive and a lot less popular while in office, and she inflicted enormous damage on her reputation with her behavior towards her successor. As a result she is far more controversial within the Conservative party, and invoking her outside the party is a good way to lose votes.

Now this was my impressions from a year there as an undergraduate in politics and another as a graduate student, so our British posters are welcome to correct me, but this was the impression I got.

Nice analysis. 

[Verily]

probably half to two-thirds of the membership preferred the Democrats over here. McCain is not the type of figure who would have much appeal in the UK(or anywhere in Europe really, except maybe Denmark).

Which is kind of odd since McCain was invited to speak and was well received (as far as I could tell) at a Tory convention of some sort about a year ago.

I figured that McCain would have some appeal in Europe at the very least because of the perception that he's center-right and not exactly from the more extreme wing of the party.

To put things into perspective, there was a YouGov poll on which American candidate Britons preferred. Tory supporters split evenly between Obama and McCain while Labour was something like 90-10 for Obama, and the survey found no Lib Dem voters who preferred McCain (must not have polled Montgomeryshire).

[Keystone Phil]

probably half to two-thirds of the membership preferred the Democrats over here. McCain is not the type of figure who would have much appeal in the UK(or anywhere in Europe really, except maybe Denmark).

Which is kind of odd since McCain was invited to speak and was well received (as far as I could tell) at a Tory convention of some sort about a year ago.

I figured that McCain would have some appeal in Europe at the very least because of the perception that he's center-right and not exactly from the more extreme wing of the party.

To put things into perspective, there was a YouGov poll on which American candidate Britons preferred. Tory supporters split evenly between Obama and McCain while Labour was something like 90-10 for Obama, and the survey found no Lib Dem voters who preferred McCain (must not have polled Montgomeryshire).

Well, that suggests that he has at least some appeal within Europe, though it is mainly with conservative voters. I have a feeling that Obama's support among Tories has a lot to do with McCain's strong support for the war and the fact that even McCain is more vocal about social issues than European conservatives.