Pretenders to the Throne

[afleitch]

I find the survival of long deposed European dynasties to be pretty fascinating. So I hope to make this a regular thing.

First up - Scotland and France

France

This one isn't so easy. First up we have the Legitimists who believe than any King of France (and Navarre) should be chosen through the Salic Law

They back this Spanish born chap - Louis XX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Alphonse%2C_Duke_of_Anjou

Orléanists back Henri VII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri%2C_Comte_de_Paris%2C_Duc_de_France

Bonapartists back 22 year old Jean-Christophe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Christophe_Napoleon who was his grandfathers chosen successor (they do that a lot in that line..)

So...you know who ever's your poison

Scotland

The Kingdom of Scotland still exists as a dynastic entity with our current monarch Elizabeth II. Unless you are a Jacobite who holds that the House of Stewart should remain the rightful royal house, not just in Scotland but also England and Ireland. That line continued through the male line until 1875 when it was passed to Maria Theresia of Austria-Este (Queen of Bavaria). Luckily female succession was a-ok in the Stewart dynasty.

The next holder was Crown Prince Rupprecht who has the unfortunate distinction of commanding the Germna 6th Army at the start of World War I.

The current titular holder is this man: Franz Duke of Bavaria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz%2C_Duke_of_Bavaria. The Stewart House and the deposed Bavarian house are therefore entwined. The title will pass to Duke Max, his brother as he has no issue. Then it splits. The Bavarian sucession passes to the 95 year old Prince Ludwig. The Stewart dynasty, allowing female succession, means the title passes to Sophie the princess of Liechtenstein http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie%2C_Hereditary_Princess_of_Liechtenstein before passing to her teenage son Prince Joseph Wenzel.

While I tend to be a bit of a Jacobite in the sense of believeing the Stewarts should never have been usurped, I don't really believe the current line is more worthy of the crown than the current House of Windsor. I am quite happy with Elizabeth.

[Hash]

Isn't Charles Napoléon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Marie_J%C3%A9r%C3%B4me_Victor_Napol%C3%A9on_Bonaparte) the Bonapartist claimant? Or are the two of them fighting it out?

Charles Napoléon is a disgusting traitor.

I also love pretenders and all. Amazing stuff.

[Хahar 🤔]

Do Jerusalem next!

[Smid]

Scotland

Luckily female succession was a-ok in the Stewart dynasty.

Indeed, the Stewart dynasty started when Marjorie, daughter of Robert the Bruce married Walter the Steward, if my memory serves me correct.

[The Mikado]

Us Yanks always refer to them as the "Stuarts."  Is it one of those things that can go either way?

BTW, I'm struck at how many common interests I have with afleitch.

Hey, do the disgraced would-be Victor Emmanuel IV!

[Verily]

Do Jerusalem next!

There are numerous possible claimants, including Vittorio-Emmanuele, the Italian pretender, Amedeo, self-proclaimed Duke of Savoy (and more properly Duke of Aosta), Otto von Habsburg, pretender to the Austrian throne, Carlo, Duke of Castro (also a claimant to the Two Sicilies branch of the House of Bourbon), and King Juan Carlos of Spain.

[Хahar 🤔]

Do Jerusalem next!

There are numerous possible claimants, including Vittorio-Emmanuele, the Italian pretender, Amedeo, self-proclaimed Duke of Savoy (and more properly Duke of Aosta), Otto von Habsburg, pretender to the Austrian throne, and King Juan Carlos of Spain.

What is it about Jerusalem that causes monarchs to keep the title? The association with Christendom?

[J. J.]

Do Jerusalem next!

Victor Emmanuel of Savoy has the best claim

Otto of Habsburg has a reasonable, but not genetic, claim.

[J. J.]

Pretender to the Imperial German Throne, Throne of Prussia, (possibly Mecklenburg's Grand Ducal Throne), and claimant to the title of Prince of Orange:  Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prince of Prussia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Friedrich,_Prince_of_Prussia

[The Man From G.O.P.]

I love this stuff, taking classes on it in college.


Here I was thinking this was another topic on Labour hopefuls

[??????????]

Do Jerusalem next!

Victor Emmanuel of Savoy has the best claim

Otto of Habsburg has a reasonable, but not genetic, claim.

I have a small claim.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

Afleitch, you could have done such research about the House of Romanov, but then I released that any possible descendant of Tsar Nicholas II and Queen Alexandra wouldn't exist due to the Bolshevik murders of the House of Romanov in 1917. Though saying this I have found a link on Wikipedia regarding such succession to the Russian throne here.

Any stories regarding a person claiming to be King or Queen of England are always hilarious in my books. Not because the particular person claims to either King or Queen, which is hilarious in itself, particularly if they look like a dole bludger, but due to the stories being on such tabloid news programmes such as A Current Affair or my personal favourite Today Tonight.

Here I was thinking this was another topic on Labour hopefuls

Same here, though not for the British Labour Party, rather than the Liberal Party leadership. When will Peter Bloody Costello decide whether or not to run for the Liberal Party leadership? Either way I doubt that Nelson will survive the year. In the process I am flip-flopping on my statements regarding Nelson's leadership which I made earlier this week.

[afleitch]

Next up will be the Hapsburgs - in particular the crown of Austria.

The Hapsburgs are probably the most interesting and entertaining of all royal dynasties. Wherever they crop up outside of their own history they are usually doing something a 'bit mad' or trying to marry off someone reluctantly.

[Hash]

Next up will be the Hapsburgs - in particular the crown of Austria.

The Hapsburgs are probably the most interesting and entertaining of all royal dynasties. Wherever they crop up outside of their own history they are usually doing something a 'bit mad' or trying to marry off someone reluctantly.

Otto von Hapsburg, who has been pretender since the death of Karl, has served as an MEP (CDU from Germany, IIRC)

[??????????]

Next up will be the Hapsburgs - in particular the crown of Austria.

The Hapsburgs are probably the most interesting and entertaining of all royal dynasties. Wherever they crop up outside of their own history they are usually doing something a 'bit mad' or trying to marry off someone reluctantly.

Easy now.

[Peter]

Us Yanks always refer to them as the "Stuarts."  Is it one of those things that can go either way?

The line is referred to as the Stuarts in England. Apparently the change in names occurred when Mary Queen of Scots was in France and needed to change the spelling so the French would pronounce it correctly. Since then it appears to have stuck, though the Scots/Jacobites have generally preferred the older spelling.

P.S. There is only one true Lord High Executioner, and that is me!!

[Хahar 🤔]

Next up will be the Hapsburgs - in particular the crown of Austria.

The Hapsburgs are probably the most interesting and entertaining of all royal dynasties. Wherever they crop up outside of their own history they are usually doing something a 'bit mad' or trying to marry off someone reluctantly.

Otto von Hapsburg, who has been pretender since the death of Karl, has served as an MEP (CDU from Germany, IIRC)

So he was. And an important one at that.

[JohnFKennedy]

Next up will be the Hapsburgs - in particular the crown of Austria.

The Hapsburgs are probably the most interesting and entertaining of all royal dynasties. Wherever they crop up outside of their own history they are usually doing something a 'bit mad' or trying to marry off someone reluctantly.

Easy now.

Are both your parents Habsburgs?

Just wondering if the grand old tradition of keeping it in the family is still running. Don't suppose you have mandibular prognathism?

[??????????]

Next up will be the Hapsburgs - in particular the crown of Austria.

The Hapsburgs are probably the most interesting and entertaining of all royal dynasties. Wherever they crop up outside of their own history they are usually doing something a 'bit mad' or trying to marry off someone reluctantly.

Easy now.

Are both your parents Habsburgs?

Just wondering if the grand old tradition of keeping it in the family is still running. Don't suppose you have mandibular prognathism?

No, just my fathers side. However, through my family research we did have first cousins that married in Austria.  No, I don't have the Hapsburg jaw, well, not as pronounced as in the pictures I've seen. I'd put a picture up but I have a full beard and I'm not shaving it. However, I'll post a picture of my great uncle Eduard Wallnöfer, he was fairly prominent in Austrian politics. Tell me what you think.



My jaw is similar to his.

[Hash]

I'd assume you're interested in Austrian history and politics then?

[??????????]

I'd assume you're interested in Austrian history and politics then?

History, yes, but I'm not so good with foreign politics.

[Хahar 🤔]

ÖVP Governor of the Tyrol! Interesting.

How far back until you hit an Archduke?

[??????????]

ÖVP Governor of the Tyrol! Interesting.

How far back until you hit an Archduke?

Early 19th Century IIRC. I know for a fact though we were granted our family name in 1597 and that is because we helped to save Vienna from the Turks.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Next up will be the Hapsburgs - in particular the crown of Austria.

The Hapsburgs are probably the most interesting and entertaining of all royal dynasties. Wherever they crop up outside of their own history they are usually doing something a 'bit mad' or trying to marry off someone reluctantly.

No, No, That's the Spanish Bourbons.

The Jagellions would be interesting I think and the House of Braganza.

[afleitch]

Another interesting 'what if' is if we look at the list of those in line for the throne, but who never got it because their claim was superceded.

The last time the direct heir to the Monarch didn't get the thrones of Great Britain was I believe Victoria, the Princess Royal who held the title from 1840-1841. The current Queen's heir was Princess Margaret from 1936-1948 before the birth of Prince Charles. Charles' heir was Princess Anne from 1952-1960, Prince Andrew from 1960-1982 and from 1982, his son Prince William.

For the Stewarts, Mary Queen of Scots' heir, until the birth of the future James VI, was James Hamilton (Lord Arran) until 1566 when he was succeded by Mary's son.