Does this mentality piss you off?

[Keystone Phil]

The "Hate Religion" mentality that is popularized by our forum's great intellectuals.

It certainly pisses me off but I'm just a member of the simple folk, after all.

[Torie]

I think you might be "seeing" something that is not there. Just a thought.

[Keystone Phil]

I think you might be "seeing" something that is not there.

Yes, they do tend to say that when I say that I believe in God.

[Sbane]

Who hates religion? I think if there is any "hate", it might be directed towards creationists who force their views upon the populace and other such intolerant people.

[Keystone Phil]

Who hates religion? I think if there is any "hate", it might be directed towards creationists who force their views upon the populace and other such intolerant people.

I must say that this idea that creationists try to force their views on others is overstated. I'm not a creationist but I certainly feel for them. The second you mention that you don't subscribe to evolution you are totally ripped to shreds. Now that's tolerance!

[Torie]

The anger comes I think at the attempts to fob off creationism as science in secondary schools. It seems just so "luddite."

[Keystone Phil]

The anger comes I think at the attempts to fob off creationism as science in secondary schools. It seems just so "luddite."

The anger and superiority comes even when the topic of teaching it in schools isn't part of the discussion.

[Sbane]

The anger comes I think at the attempts to fob off creationism as science in secondary schools. It seems just so "luddite."

The anger and superiority comes even when the topic of teaching it in schools isn't part of the discussion.

The thing that pisses me off about creationists is that there is proof out there that evolution happens and they still choose to ignore it. The funniest thing is that evolution does not prove that god exists or not but rather raises more questions. Instead of going from there, the creationists choose to dig their head in the sand and deny facts. But this ideology does not make me angry but rather just befuddles me. I do get angry if you try to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in classrooms and try to pass it off as science.

[Keystone Phil]

The anger comes I think at the attempts to fob off creationism as science in secondary schools. It seems just so "luddite."

The anger and superiority comes even when the topic of teaching it in schools isn't part of the discussion.

The thing that pisses me off about creationists is that there is proof out there that evolution works and they still choose to ignore it. The funniest thing is that evolution does not prove that god exists or not but rather raises more questions. Instead of going from there, the creationists choose to dig their head in the sand and deny facts. But this ideology does not make me angry but rather just befuddles me. I do get angry if you try to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in classrooms and try to pass it off as science.

Again, I agree with you but I think that there are plenty of people out there that aren't trying to "pass it off as science."

I personally believe in evolution but evolution that God had a role in. Even that view will get an occassional eye roll.

[Sbane]

The anger comes I think at the attempts to fob off creationism as science in secondary schools. It seems just so "luddite."

The anger and superiority comes even when the topic of teaching it in schools isn't part of the discussion.

The thing that pisses me off about creationists is that there is proof out there that evolution works and they still choose to ignore it. The funniest thing is that evolution does not prove that god exists or not but rather raises more questions. Instead of going from there, the creationists choose to dig their head in the sand and deny facts. But this ideology does not make me angry but rather just befuddles me. I do get angry if you try to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in classrooms and try to pass it off as science.

Again, I agree with you but I think that there are plenty of people out there that aren't trying to "pass it off as science."

I personally believe in evolution but evolution that God had a role in. Even that view will get an occassional eye roll.

Yup evolution occurs and there are plenty of things about it that should make you think god has a hand in it. Evolution is a wonderful way of making our planet adjust to the changes which are inevitable. God may or may not have a hand in that. I don't think god comes down and change base pairs inside animals though, that is a bridge too far.

[tik 🪀✨]

I have a grudge against organized religion because of personal experience and the egregious misdirection of power it often employs. There is a lot of potential for good there, but it often goes unnoticed by the figureheads and instead becomes a detriment to progress.

And then there's the fact that many of the thinkers here find that religious zealotry is a dead-end in discussing something and sharing ideas.

[Sensei]

I have a grudge against organized religion because of personal experience and the egregious misdirection of power it often employs. There is a lot of potential for good there, but it often goes unnoticed by the figureheads and instead becomes a detriment to progress.

And then there's the fact that many of the thinkers here find that religious zealotry is a dead-end in discussing something and sharing ideas.

agreed.

   My 15-year experience with Catholicism showed me that the Church can do a lot of good, but at the end of the day I didn't believe a word of it sincerely and what became my future dislike of organized religion was exacerbated by several Jesus-freak relatives trying to bring me "back into the light" and being forced to be confirmed and attend mass for over a year on pain of eviction from my house, which is inhabited by my parents who are generally very nice people but suddenly weren't when religion was put into the equation. I don't know what it is about religion that would make parents threaten their straight-A student, non-problem, respectful kid with being thrown out of the house, but it's the same kind of thing which has caused me to embrace this "Hate Religion" mentality Phil mentioned in the original post. What pisses me off is the "Love Religion" mentality which makes people narrow-minded enough to not respect the beliefs of others. Mind you, this doesn't apply to most religious people, because most people are very respectful of alternative beliefs, but that about covers it, I think.   

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The anger comes I think at the attempts to fob off creationism as science in secondary schools. It seems just so "luddite."

The Luddites weren't opposed to "progress" itself, just to the destruction and-or degradation of their livelihoods.

"It just seems so reactionary" would be a better, I think.

[Torie]

The anger comes I think at the attempts to fob off creationism as science in secondary schools. It seems just so "luddite."

The Luddites weren't opposed to "progress" itself, just to the destruction and-or degradation of their livelihoods.

"It just seems so reactionary" would be a better, I think.

No it isn't. Resisting economic efficiency for self interested purposes  is a cardinal sin, and thus beyond reactionary. It's immoral.

[Albus Dumbledore]

Depends on which religion you're opposed to.

[Alcon]

Out of curiosity, can you give an example of religious hatefulness from a "great intellectual"?  Moreover, a popularized, widespread example?  This isn't a loaded question; if it seems like one, that might make you wonder.

P.S. Opebo does not count. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The anger comes I think at the attempts to fob off creationism as science in secondary schools. It seems just so "luddite."

The Luddites weren't opposed to "progress" itself, just to the destruction and-or degradation of their livelihoods.

"It just seems so reactionary" would be a better, I think.

No it isn't. Resisting economic efficiency for self interested is a cardinal sin, and thus beyond reactionary. It's immoral.

Certainly a great deal less immoral than having small children working (and often dying) in the most dangerous jobs in the mills in order to maximise profits.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I have a grudge against organized religion because of personal experience and the egregious misdirection of power it often employs. There is a lot of potential for good there, but it often goes unnoticed by the figureheads and instead becomes a detriment to progress.

And then there's the fact that many of the thinkers here find that religious zealotry is a dead-end in discussing something and sharing ideas.

agreed.

   My 15-year experience with Catholicism showed me that the Church can do a lot of good, but at the end of the day I didn't believe a word of it sincerely and what became my future dislike of organized religion was exacerbated by several Jesus-freak relatives trying to bring me "back into the light" and being forced to be confirmed and attend mass for over a year on pain of eviction from my house, which is inhabited by my parents who are generally very nice people but suddenly weren't when religion was put into the equation. I don't know what it is about religion that would make parents threaten their straight-A student, non-problem, respectful kid with being thrown out of the house, but it's the same kind of thing which has caused me to embrace this "Hate Religion" mentality Phil mentioned in the original post. What pisses me off is the "Love Religion" mentality which makes people narrow-minded enough to not respect the beliefs of others. Mind you, this doesn't apply to most religious people, because most people are very respectful of alternative beliefs, but that about covers it, I think.   

     I would hate to have to deal with parents like that. My mother is a devout Catholic, but she refused to fascistly force her beliefs on me.

     In fact, the only time that I've ever been to Church was when I was a pall-bearer at my great-aunt's funeral. Until then, I wasn't even aware that everyone else in my family is Catholic.

     These days, I'm more grateful than ever to be afforded the freedom to not be Catholic.

[Flying Dog]

I kind of agree with Phil. There is a "hate religion" mentality that exists in every place. However, I believe that most people who are pushing it don't much realize they are doing it. In any case, I have pretty thick skin when it comes to that. God gave me the might to dismiss stupid remarks without a second thought and not let them upset me. If I got worked up over every single little comment then I'd have no peace at all. I've got bigger fish to fry.

[JSojourner]

Speaking as a Christian who takes his faith very seriously, I have experienced a very small amount of -- hate isn't quite the word -- contempt for or arrogance about Christianity and religion in general on this forum.

But as has been my experience with most Atheists, Agnostics and Secularists in the offline world, the vast majority are either entirely indifferent to or genuinely interested in my belief system.  And above all, they are respectful.

Because one does not embrace the faith I embrace does not mean they hate me or my religion.  It means they view such matters differently.

Now yes, there are rabid types who hate all things religious.  I knew one fellow on another message board who referred to Jesus Christ in the most contemptible, offensive manner -- such that I can't bring myself to write it.  But he was, far and away, the exception.  In fact, when he used that vile epithet, the first ones to excoriate him were that forum's Atheists!

I think most of the non-religious here have been quite respectful.

[Keystone Phil]

Out of curiosity, can you give an example of religious hatefulness from a "great intellectual"?  Moreover, a popularized, widespread example?  This isn't a loaded question; if it seems like one, that might make you wonder.

P.S. Opebo does not count. 

You pass off your comments as intellectual criticism.

[Alcon]

You pass off your comments as intellectual criticism.

I intellectually criticize Christianity.  Yeah.  I intellectually criticize individual agnostics, but not agnosticism as a whole, because it lacks dogma.  That does tend to make agnosticism sort of difficult to criticize beyond nit-picks.  I intellectually criticize sorts of atheism, although honestly I think my disagreements with most atheists usually relate to burden-of-proof.

I don't get your point though.  I don't criticize only things I hate.  I don't hate Christianity; I don't even think it's bad on the whole.  So, what are you talking about?

[Keystone Phil]

You pass off your comments as intellectual criticism.

I intellectually criticize Christianity.  Yeah.  I intellectually criticize individual agnostics, but not agnosticism as a whole, because it lacks dogma.  That does tend to make agnosticism sort of difficult to criticize beyond nit-picks.  I intellectually criticize sorts of atheism, although honestly I think my disagreements with most atheists usually relate to burden-of-proof.

I don't get your point though.  I don't criticize only things I hate.  I don't hate Christianity; I don't even think it's bad on the whole.  So, what are you talking about?

Alcon, after reading countless comments of your's regarding Christianity, you're kidding yourself if you think that you don't have a problem with Christianity.

[Alcon]

Alcon, after reading countless comments of your's regarding Christianity, you're kidding yourself if you think that you don't have a problem with Christianity.

You've effectively decided that non-religiousness is:

1. Contrary to universal goodness.
2. Against the perpetuation of the Catholic Church, the one true Church.
3. Generally devoid of several moral values that you hold dear.

So, on a whole, you probably think that non-religion is bad?  Do you have a "problem" with non-religion, then?  And if so, who cares?  I don't think Christianity is necessarily bad, in net.  I'm not looking to destroy Christianity.  I am respectful of Christians, and like/love many of them.  I don't do it conditionally or "in spite" of their Christianity.  I don't judge people much based on being Christians.  I'm aware that my (non-)beliefs constitute <10% of the population.  If that is still having "a problem with Christianity," I guess I do; why that matters, or why that amounts to hate, I don't know.  You'll have to explain that to me.

[Keystone Phil]

Alcon, after reading countless comments of your's regarding Christianity, you're kidding yourself if you think that you don't have a problem with Christianity.

You've effectively decided that non-religiousness is:

1. Contrary to universal goodness.
2. Against the perpetuation of the Catholic Church, the one true Church.
3. Generally devoid of several moral values that you hold dear.

I've never said that or led anyone to serious believe that. My problem is that people like yourself attack what I believe in such an arrogant, condescending manner.