Intercessory Prayer

[12th Doctor]

Well, I'll let the non-Catholics start the discussion, and, as is my custom, I will job in and counter their thoughts.  So... discuss.

[Torie]

??

Do I need to give a Pagan prayer, to start the discussion or what?  I am still relatively new here.

[12th Doctor]

??

Do I need to give a Pagan prayer, to start the discussion or what?  I am still relatively new here.

No, I am talking about the general topic of intercessory prayer.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I certainly pray for the welfare of others, although not as often as I should.

[Torie]

??

Do I need to give a Pagan prayer, to start the discussion or what?  I am still relatively new here.

No, I am talking about the general topic of intercessory prayer.

What does it mean? Asking "God" to help out on micro matters?

[tik 🪀✨]

I imagine the topic is about the idea of a living person praying on a deceased person's behalf, that God would show them mercy, or the idea of appealing to dead Christian saints. I imagine Soulty is waiting for a hyper protestant to come in and decry it as evil, misrepresenting the idea of intercessory prayer. Then we'll get a wearisome back and forth for our entertainment

[afleitch]

I imagine Soulty is waiting for a hyper protestant to come in and decry it as evil, misrepresenting the idea of intercessory prayer. Then we'll get a wearisome back and forth for our entertainment

That's pretty much what I thought

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Well, I'll let the non-Catholics start the discussion, and, as is my custom, I will job in and counter their thoughts.  So... discuss.

there are too many examples of person x praying to God for person y in the bible for me to reference in one post. 

James 5:16 "Pray one for another"

what's there to counter?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Is that when you pray to (or is it through...) a Saint, rather than directly to God [qm]. Apologies; I'm largely ignorant of internal RC stuff.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Well, I'll let the non-Catholics start the discussion, and, as is my custom, I will job in and counter their thoughts.  So... discuss.

there are too many examples of person x praying to God for person y in the bible for me to reference in one post. 

James 5:16 "Pray one for another"

what's there to counter?

That James 5:16 has no religious significance, and is just the writings of a 1st century former Jew.

[afleitch]

Is that when you pray to (or is it through...) a Saint, rather than directly to God [qm]. Apologies; I'm largely ignorant of internal RC stuff.

Theres nothing distinctively Catholic, as jmfcst rightly says (probably my only use of those three words in that order) in praying for either the living or departed.

Intercession through the saints however may be more debatable; that is the 'petitioning' to God through saints, often specific saints on behalf of yourself or others. Often, and this is controversial within some Catholic circles, is praying for intercession through non-canonised people of note or worth. This can all get mixed up in whether or not the dead can infact pray for the living etc.

Many Protestants believe that there is no 'mediator' between man and God (and I think there is something in Timothy about that)

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Many Protestants believe that there is no 'mediator' between man and God (and I think there is something in Timothy about that)

i have never met a protestant who believes there is no mediator between man and God.

1Tim 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"

[JSojourner]

I have traditionally believed only person can mediate the eternal dispute between imperfect humanity and perfect Deity.  And his name is Jesus Christ.

Do I believe the departed can and do pray for and with us?  I do.  I believe they are as alive as we are.  More so, only in another realm.  I do not believe they are sitting on clouds, plucking harps.

But do we pray TO anyone but God?  There is no scriptural precedent for this whatsoever.  I might, in my prayers, ask the Blessed Virgin Mary to pray for me. Just as I might ask a Christian brother or sister to pray for me.  I would not ask her to mediate for me.  And if I did, I suspect she would point me to her Son.

As to whether another persons prayers, or my own, can change things...I find it is usually the case that prayer changes me, far more often than it changes my circumstances. 

[Kaine for Senate '18]

As far as I know, Judaism has nothing close to praying to Saints, the Virgin Mary, etc.  Even the Rabbis aren't necessary in services; any Bar Mitzvahed male can lead a service (or female, if you're not Orthodox).

[Хahar 🤔]

Praying to anything but God is blasphemous in Islam. A pretty straightforward position, IMO.

[Albus Dumbledore]

Not all of us are or seek to be muslims, Xahar.

[Хahar 🤔]

Not all of us are or seek to be muslims, Xahar.

And...?

[Albus Dumbledore]

You were acting like just because something is blasphemous in islam we should all consider it blasphemous.

[Хahar 🤔]

You were acting like just because something is blasphemous in islam we should all consider it blasphemous.

Well, it's assumed that it's my position.

[Alcon]

You were acting like just because something is blasphemous in islam we should all consider it blasphemous.

Isn't that kind of the idea behind religious belief?

[Albus Dumbledore]

You were acting like just because something is blasphemous in islam we should all consider it blasphemous.

Isn't that kind of the idea behind religious belief?

In theory yes but in this globalized and relatively secular age you think one would be less willing to try spreading their beliefs but alas I am wrong..

[Kaine for Senate '18]

You were acting like just because something is blasphemous in islam we should all consider it blasphemous.

Isn't that kind of the idea behind religious belief?

In theory yes but in this globalized and relatively secular age you think one would be less willing to try spreading their beliefs but alas I am wrong..

There's a difference between spreading beliefs and what Xahar is doing.

[Хahar 🤔]

You were acting like just because something is blasphemous in islam we should all consider it blasphemous.

Isn't that kind of the idea behind religious belief?

In theory yes but in this globalized and relatively secular age you think one would be less willing to try spreading their beliefs but alas I am wrong..

There's a difference between spreading beliefs and what Xahar is doing.

Well, I'm certainly spreading knowledge of my beliefs here, as many have acknowledged. But I'm certainly not proselytizing.

[12th Doctor]

I imagine the topic is about the idea of a living person praying on a deceased person's behalf, that God would show them mercy, or the idea of appealing to dead Christian saints. I imagine Soulty is waiting for a hyper protestant to come in and decry it as evil, misrepresenting the idea of intercessory prayer. Then we'll get a wearisome back and forth for our entertainment

Actually, I was thinking about the topic generally, but most specifically in terms of dealing with the saints and such.

[afleitch]

Many Protestants believe that there is no 'mediator' between man and God (and I think there is something in Timothy about that)

i have never met a protestant who believes there is no mediator between man and God.

1Tim 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"

Fair point. But I was referring to the trinitarian notion of God.