Will gay marriage be a major issue in the 2008 presidential election?

[Alcon]

I would still believe everything I believe as a Catholic if I wasn't Catholic/if there was no Catholic Church. For example, I am not opposed to abortion "because I'm Catholic." I don't believe waiting for marriage until one has sex is the ideal choice "because I'm Catholic." I don't like when people say that. I don't know if this was the type of argument you and Vander were having but that's what it seemed like.

Not really, no.

I also think you might believe in the Catholic religion a little less if you weren't Catholic.

My point was, assuming you had a pretty conventional sense of morality (which I don't think varies much when it comes to religions), I doubt you'd personally decide that homosexuality is wrong without your religion dictating that to you.  Maybe you would, but I rarely see that happening with someone who can defend themselves on non-theological levels.

[Keystone Phil]

I also think you might believe in the Catholic religion a little less if you weren't Catholic.

Who are you to say? I have my disagreements with the Church but I still ultimately happen to agree with the Church teachings. I don't know why I couldn't have my disagreements now and still believe what they believe but would believe less if I wasn't Catholic.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Again, homosexuality isn't seen as "wrong" if that's what Vander is saying.

[Alcon]

Who are you to say? I have my disagreements with the Church but I still ultimately happen to agree with the Church teachings. I don't know why I couldn't have my disagreements now and still believe what they believe but would believe less if I wasn't Catholic.

Because you are defined as a Catholic by what you believe, no?  You couldn't have identical views and not be a Catholic.  This is a tautological argument.

Again, homosexuality isn't seen as "wrong" if that's what Vander is saying.

Homosexual physical relationships.  I'm aware that just being gay isn't considered wrong.  I've said so several times.

[Keystone Phil]

Because you are defined as a Catholic by what you believe, no?  You couldn't have identical views and not be a Catholic.  This is a tautological argument.

On non-theological (believing Eucharist is the body of Christ, believing that the Blessed Mother ascended to heaven, etc.) matters I can't? Uh...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Just making sure.

[Alcon]

On non-theological (believing Eucharist is the body of Christ, believing that the Blessed Mother ascended to heaven, etc.) matters I can't? Uh...

I don't really understand what distinction you're making.  You'd have the same beliefs on homosexual sex if you weren't religious, because you would find the lack of procreation offensive, even though even now you don't find post-menopausal sex wrong?  I guess I don't understand that.

[Keystone Phil]

On non-theological (believing Eucharist is the body of Christ, believing that the Blessed Mother ascended to heaven, etc.) matters I can't? Uh...

I don't really understand what distinction you're making.  You'd have the same beliefs on homosexual sex if you weren't religious, because you would find the lack of procreation offensive, even though even now you don't find post-menopausal sex wrong?  I guess I don't understand that.

I'm not saying I find it wrong or offensive now. I'm mainly talking about other issues.