Were the Nuremberg Trials valid?

[Хahar 🤔]

They were one of the worst examples of victor's justice in modern times.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What on earth do you mean by "valid"?

[afleitch]

Are you going by Harlan Stone's interpretation Xahar? Some did escape being helf to account at Nuremburg...the Grand Mufti among them.

[Хahar 🤔]

What on earth do you mean by "valid"?

I mean a legally conventional trial.

Are you going by Harlan Stone's interpretation Xahar? Some did escape being helf to account at Nuremburg...the Grand Mufti among them.

Yup.

[jokerman]

Maybe not by some jurisprudence but they were the right thing to do.

[dead0man]

Because the war trials the Nazi's would have put on had they won would have been the perfect picture of a fair trial!  Or if we just let Stalin run the whole thing, that would have been fair for all parties I'm sure.

[Хahar 🤔]

Because the war trials the Nazi's would have put on had they won would have been the perfect picture of a fair trial!  Or if we just let Stalin run the whole thing, that would have been fair for all parties I'm sure.

I thought we're supposed to be better than the totalitarian dictatorships? Hmm?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I think they were valid, however you are correct that they only got in trouble because they lost. The US doesn't have much moral authority here.

[dead0man]

Because the war trials the Nazi's would have put on had they won would have been the perfect picture of a fair trial!  Or if we just let Stalin run the whole thing, that would have been fair for all parties I'm sure.

I thought we're supposed to be better than the totalitarian dictatorships? Hmm?

We were, that was my point.

[Хahar 🤔]

Because the war trials the Nazi's would have put on had they won would have been the perfect picture of a fair trial!  Or if we just let Stalin run the whole thing, that would have been fair for all parties I'm sure.

I thought we're supposed to be better than the totalitarian dictatorships? Hmm?

We were, that was my point.

We hanged almost everyone in the trial. Is that better?

[SPC]

Because the war trials the Nazi's would have put on had they won would have been the perfect picture of a fair trial!  Or if we just let Stalin run the whole thing, that would have been fair for all parties I'm sure.

I thought we're supposed to be better than the totalitarian dictatorships? Hmm?

We were, that was my point.

We hanged almost everyone in the trial. Is that better?

I doubt that the Nazis showed such reluctance toward taking human life.

[Хahar 🤔]

Because the war trials the Nazi's would have put on had they won would have been the perfect picture of a fair trial!  Or if we just let Stalin run the whole thing, that would have been fair for all parties I'm sure.

I thought we're supposed to be better than the totalitarian dictatorships? Hmm?

We were, that was my point.

We hanged almost everyone in the trial. Is that better?

I doubt that the Nazis showed such reluctance toward taking human life.

Once again, aren't we better than that?

[specific_name]

If you believe the American and British conduct of the war and it's aftermath were really that bad, you ought to look into how Russia handled things. The allies made a deal with the devil because they needed the Soviet Union to win the land war. Due to that fact the Soviets were able to control Eastern Europe for decades.

If Soviets occupied Germany or further into Western Europe, the result would have been worse than we can imagine.

[dead0man]

Because the war trials the Nazi's would have put on had they won would have been the perfect picture of a fair trial!  Or if we just let Stalin run the whole thing, that would have been fair for all parties I'm sure.

I thought we're supposed to be better than the totalitarian dictatorships? Hmm?

We were, that was my point.

We hanged almost everyone in the trial. Is that better?

10* out of 24 is "most" in your world.  Interesting to say the least.  Also, who of the 12 sentenced to death do you think should have been spared?




*well one more killed himself before hand.  I'm pretty sure 11 out of 24 still isn't "most" to most people.

[dead0man]

Because the war trials the Nazi's would have put on had they won would have been the perfect picture of a fair trial!  Or if we just let Stalin run the whole thing, that would have been fair for all parties I'm sure.

I thought we're supposed to be better than the totalitarian dictatorships? Hmm?

We were, that was my point.

We hanged almost everyone in the trial. Is that better?

I doubt that the Nazis showed such reluctance toward taking human life.

Once again, aren't we better than that?

Again, we WERE better than that.  These trials were a thousand times more "fair" than they would have been if Stalin or Hitler were running them.  To say or think otherwise shows a naivety on your part of epic proportions.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

We hanged almost everyone in the trial. Is that better?

If you accept that the death penalty can be justified (even if only in exceptional circumstances; and if you accept that then these were clearly exceptional circumstances) and that death is the ultimate punishment, then quite a few who were not hanged got off lightly.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

There was nothing wrong with the Nuremberg Trials.

[Хahar 🤔]

No - not even close.

I think the process of making up crimes to charge people with, after the event, and then deigning upon them a sense of legal righteousness is very disturbing - it attempts to give the impression of upholding the rule of law but actually cynically undermines it.

I was glancing at the wiki article on the Trials and I think the quote of US Chief Justice Stone fits most closely with my own views:
"[Chief US prosecutor] Jackson is away conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg....I don't mind what he does to the Nazis, but I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas."

My point exactly. Thanks, Jas.

[dead0man]

Still, a thousand times better than Hitler or Stalin would have done.  And again, of the ten hung, who would you have spared?

[Јas]

Still, a thousand times better than Hitler or Stalin would have done.

Using this sort of argument, all behaviour becomes justifiable. It doesn't make it right.

And again, of the ten hung, who would you have spared?

Personally, I'm against the death penalty in all circumstances, so obviously all of them.

But that's not what I'm objecting to here, I'm objecting to the dressing up of the Nuremburg Trials as a valid and properly lawful construct - not whether or not the executions were morally sound.

[GMantis]

Because the war trials the Nazi's would have put on had they won would have been the perfect picture of a fair trial!  Or if we just let Stalin run the whole thing, that would have been fair for all parties I'm sure.

I thought we're supposed to be better than the totalitarian dictatorships? Hmm?

We were, that was my point.

We hanged almost everyone in the trial. Is that better?

Every single one of those sentenced to death deserved it, and quite a few of them got off too lightly.

Still, a thousand times better than Hitler or Stalin would have done.  And again, of the ten hung, who would you have spared?

Actually, if it weren't for Stalin, they would be summarily executed, as Churchill wanted it. Strange, but true.

[StateBoiler]

Does it really matter? Winners of wars do whatever the f*** they want. So it was valid cause the winners said they were valid.

[J. J.]

Valid, because of unconditional surrender.  I must admit that I have some trouble with the "crimes against the peace" charges.

[dead0man]

But that's not what I'm objecting to here, I'm objecting to the dressing up of the Nuremburg Trials as a valid and properly lawful construct - not whether or not the executions were morally sound.

Aye.  I can accept that the trials weren't perfectly...ahem...executed, but I think in this case, the ends justified the means.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

And again, of the ten hung, who would you have spared?

None--they all deserved what they got.  I think the only people who got a raw deal were Speer and Hess.  I would have executed Hess, or let him go when he turned 75, and Speer's sentence was too long given his crimes, and his admission of guilt and regret.