Obama on Small-Town Pennsylvania...

[Flying Dog]

I find it funny that the people who find Obama's comments bigoted and stereotypical are calling him an "elitist San Francisco-type hollywood harvard liberal".

[WalterMitty]

i guess we can officially write off the dakotas now!

seriously.  im sometimes amazed at how undisciplined obama can be.  he should think it and not say it.

[Flying Dog]

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Since this is essentially describing me then I should be offended.

I'm not.


 

[Person Man]

In chaos, people search for something to control.

A friend of mine had a rough home life, and she developed anorexia as a relief because it was something she could control.

The thing here is that the areas were just as religious during the manufacturing period as after.

Yeah, but there were issues that they could of done well with before the loss in manufacturing jobs. Now, religion is the only thing they have to control. 

[J. J.]

In chaos, people search for something to control.

A friend of mine had a rough home life, and she developed anorexia as a relief because it was something she could control.

The thing here is that the areas were just as religious during the manufacturing period as after.

Yeah, but there were issues that they could of done well with before the loss in manufacturing jobs. Now, religion is the only thing they have to control. 

"They" don't "control" religion.  It is a common ideology with people in the region.  It was during the manufacturing period and it is now.  It's not something people "turned" to afterward.


I'm now waiting for Obama to start referring to the people in these small towns as "them people."

Mitty, it's not a question of Obama's discipline; he really believes this stuff.

[Keystone Phil]

Looks like someone is "bitter" about not being able to win Pennsylvania...

[Flying Dog]

Seeing that most of the complaints are coming from Republicans I'm not so worried.

[Nym90]

As always, politicians get into the most trouble when they tell the truth.

And then people wonder why our elected leaders are corrupt liars.

[Nym90]

I'm not surprised of the forum's opinion on his remarks concerning guns, religion and anti-immigrant ideas, but I would have thought differently on anti-trade ideas.  Or maybe there are more free-traders here than I thought.

It has nothing to do with bigotry against these people. Obama never insulted them, he merely spoke the truth about the fact that when people feel hopelessness and despair about their economic situation they are going to turn elsewhere for their political issues that they can feel good about, especially when neither party's candidate offers an effective solution or speaks in terms they can relate to. The Democrats are just as much to blame for rural America's alienation as the Republicans are.

As someone who lives in a very rural area and sees the real problems of such Americans every day (and experiences themselves) I can attest to the accuracy of the statement, at least as it applies to me personally and my area.

[Nym90]

What a joke this whole manufactured controversy is.

Look at this comments in context, and they were basically the same as J.J.'s comments above.

Can we talk about the issues, the themes? No. The only thing interesting is the dirt. And how to spin it. This is how the future of great superpowers is decided.

When will Democrats learn that the media is controlled by the establishment and the same media that destroyed Gore and allowed Kerry to be swiftboated and then destroyed both Clintons is not going to give Obama a free pass?

Bravo. Well said.....

But no, issues like the economy and Iraq don't matter. We must motivate people to be afraid of the black liberal boogieman. This controversy helps frame the clear contrast between the politics of the past--fear--and the politics of the future--hope.

[Keystone Phil]

Bravo. Well said.....

But no, issues like the economy and Iraq don't matter. We must motivate people to be afraid of the black liberal boogieman. This controversy helps frame the clear contrast between the politics of the past--fear--and the politics of the future--hope.

Already blaming it on race...

Anyway, I've always loved how the Dems can pick and choose what is an issue and what's not. Basically, anything that motivates social conservatives doesn't count.

[Democratic Hawk]

I'm now waiting for Obama to start referring to the people in these small towns as "them people."

Mitty, it's not a question of Obama's discipline; he really believes this stuff.

It's not out of the ordinary to hypothesise that I could be a man, of deep faith who likes his guns, living in a depressed small town; yet, far from being offended, I'd be reassured to hear Obama addressing my socio-economic anxieties

In fact, there would be no doubt in my mind that Obama does care about my well-being

Dave

[Nym90]

Bravo. Well said.....

But no, issues like the economy and Iraq don't matter. We must motivate people to be afraid of the black liberal boogieman. This controversy helps frame the clear contrast between the politics of the past--fear--and the politics of the future--hope.

Already blaming it on race...

Anyway, I've always loved how the Dems can pick and choose what is an issue and what's not. Basically, anything that motivates social conservatives doesn't count.

Never said that. Again, there's nothing inherently wrong or inferior about voting on those issues; Obama's statement was just one of fact, that when people feel no hope on issues like the economy, they turn to others. It's our fault as Democrats as much as anything for allowing those bread and butter issues to fall off people's radar screens.

And yes, Obama's race is a factor in the opposition to him just as strongly as it is in the support of him. I've made no secret of the fact that I feel blacks voting for Obama because of his race are just as racist.

[Nym90]

Full text:

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Note that at no point does Obama mention what he would do to improve the economy of post-industrial areas. 'tis a pity that most politicians have no sense of irony.

(his basic analysis of the situation is as wrong as in his earlier comments, but that's a given).

Well, to be fair, you can't expect him to solve all of the world's problems in one speech....it's a 12 step program. Pointing out the fundamental problem is the beginning. If he continues to keep repeating this over and over without moving to step two, then yes, that's a problem.

And I do agree he will have some problems connecting to rural America since he has grown up in the cities. But the problems encountered by the poor in urban areas aren't that different from those in rural areas, they just manifest themselves in different ways. He's at least in touch with urban poverty and has genuinely worked in economically depressed areas, which is more than most Presidential candidates can ever say.

[12th Doctor]

Another article:

Rivals say Obama comment rings of 'elitism'

BY GLENN THRUSH | glenn.thrush@newsday.com
    7:10 PM EDT, April 11, 2008

WASHINGTON - Barack Obama's battle to win the soul of blue-collar America suffered a major blow Friday when he claimed small-town Pennsylvanians "cling to" God, guns and hostility toward immigrants to cope with their bitterness over the economy.

Hillary Clinton and John McCain wasted little time in blasting Harvard-educated Obama of elitism, condescension and insensitivity to the little-town blues of working-class Americans.

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama told supporters at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, according to a transcript posted on the Huffington Post blog.

"It's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," he added.

Obama's campaign didn't deny the account, which was later verified by an audiotape provided to CNN.

Clinton, who has seen her once-commanding lead over Obama shrink ahead of the Keystone State's April 22 Democratic primary, opened her speech in Philadelphia late Friday with an anti-Obama broadside.

"My opponent said that the people of Pennsylvania who faced hard times are bitter," she said. "Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them, they need a president who stands up for them, who fights for them, who works hard for your futures, your jobs, your families."

McCain's camp went even farther.

"It's a remarkable statement," said McCain's senior adviser, Steve Schmidt. "It shows an elitism and condescension towards hard-working Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking. It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans."

Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor shot back: "If John McCain wants a debate about who's out of touch with the American people, we can start by talking about the tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usobam0412,0,3879544.story


Is anyone else shocked at the elitism of the Democrats on this site and Obama in particular?  No?  I didn't think so.  Man, serve up Obama, please.

[Keystone Phil]

Never said that. Again, there's nothing inherently wrong or inferior about voting on those issues; Obama's statement was just one of fact, that when people feel no hope on issues like the economy, they turn to others. It's our fault as Democrats as much as anything for allowing those bread and butter issues to fall off people's radar screens.

You are saying that they aren't as important. You're saying that their economic well being ought to be their top priority but because you guys let it fall off the radar, they turn to other issues. You're suggesting that social issues are only important when people lose hope on economic issues and that's wrong. It's that patronizing, elitist attitude that only pisses us off even more. Don't tell me why these issues are important to me or anyone else.

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Except when he loses, that'll be the only thing you blame it on.

[12th Doctor]

Full text:

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Note that at no point does Obama mention what he would do to improve the economy of post-industrial areas. 'tis a pity that most politicians have no sense of irony.

(his basic analysis of the situation is as wrong as in his earlier comments, but that's a given).

Well, to be fair, you can't expect him to solve all of the world's problems in one speech....it's a 12 step program.

Well, if he is willing to admit that he can't, then he should get out of the race right now, because all his fans are acting as though he can.  So much so, that I wonder if he really believes it now.

[Nym90]

Never said that. Again, there's nothing inherently wrong or inferior about voting on those issues; Obama's statement was just one of fact, that when people feel no hope on issues like the economy, they turn to others. It's our fault as Democrats as much as anything for allowing those bread and butter issues to fall off people's radar screens.

You are saying that they aren't as important. You're saying that their economic well being ought to be their top priority but because you guys let it fall off the radar, they turn to other issues. You're suggesting that social issues are only important when people lose hope on economic issues and that's wrong. It's that patronizing, elitist attitude that only pisses us off even more. Don't tell me why these issues are important to me or anyone else.

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Except when he loses, that'll be the only thing you blame it on.

Well again, I never said what people should do. Just what the majority of people actually do. If you look at polls, issues like the economy and Iraq do consistently trump social issues in terms of what people say are the most important issues. Obviously there are voters who care more about social issues than the economy (I'd argue the economy is a social issue and actually has far more real effect on social issue concerns then making this behavior or that behavior illegal, but that's for another thread), but I don't see statistics showing that they represent this mythical "real America" any better than anyone else.

As for race, as I said, it goes both ways. If he loses it could well be because of race. If he wins, it could well be because of record black turnout. It's a double edged sword. I can't speak for other Democrats but I don't think it's ultimately going to be the issue that decides the election.

[Sbane]

I am not sure about the religion and guns part but he was correct in asserting that the economic downturn in small town America has led to anti trade and immigrant sentiment. I love how Obama speaks the truth even if it hurts to hear it. I hope America learns to swallow the truth or they can go with the blissful ignorance of a republican administration.

[12th Doctor]

Obama has never lived in the real America.  Therefore, his inability to connect with real Americans is unsurprising.

Where exactly is this "real america"?

Well, it's not Indonesia for starters.  And I don't think Hawaii qualifies either.  Other than a few golden years spent in Chicago, he has spent most of his life on college campuses.

[exopolitician]

I think its funny both Clinton and McCain are calling Obama the elitist when both candidates probably have more money and more wealth than Obama could ever imagine having. What a load

[Keystone Phil]

I think its funny both Clinton and McCain are calling Obama the elitist when both candidates probably have more money and more wealth than Obama could ever imagine having. What a load

Elitism isn't just based on wealth.

[exopolitician]

I think its funny both Clinton and McCain are calling Obama the elitist when both candidates probably have more money and more wealth than Obama could ever imagine having. What a load

Elitism isn't just based on wealth.

Sorry...I forgot...Obama obviously cant connect with "new america" or "old america" or whatever bullsh!t accusations McCain and Clinton are flinging around.

[zombones]

How do I filter out posts with the words 'elite' or 'elitist' or 'elitism?'

[Keystone Phil]

I think its funny both Clinton and McCain are calling Obama the elitist when both candidates probably have more money and more wealth than Obama could ever imagine having. What a load

Elitism isn't just based on wealth.

Sorry...I forgot...Obama obviously cant connect with "new america" or "old america" or whatever bullsh!t accusations McCain and Clinton are flinging around.

...or I'm simply pointing out that elitism is about intellectual snobby behavior and you don't like that.