Obama on Small-Town Pennsylvania...

[Lunar]

We can't continue to buy products from countries with no respect for the environment or human rights.. of course they can produce stuff cheaper than we can!  They can dump their sludge in the river and make 8 year olds do it... how are we supposed to compete with that?

It's not about competing on individual markets.  Even if a country produces at 1/1000th of the level of efficiency and cost effectiveness as our country, we will STILL be able to mutually benefit from trade.

Look:
United States can make 500 superconductors or 500 shirts in a day/month/whatever
China can produce 1 superconductor or 100 shirts

US is much more efficient at both items.  But China has a comparative advantage at making shirts while the US has a comparative advantage at making superconductors.  We both make what we're good at and trade for the other, resulting in a maximization of our happiness!  Even if the US only wants shirts and China only wants superconductors, they would still make what they're good at.

Fair trade is important regarding some things, but it's not as big of a deal as you depict it.  For example, I wouldn't want African countries to enter a vicious cycle to see who can lower workplace safety the most in certain markets (mining) but that isn't really what you're talking about..

That's how it works in an idealistic world.. straight out of textbook economics 101.

But what has happened in the U.S. is that through neglecting our education, health care, and infrastructure systems, we are losing our comparative advantage at producing superconductors while China is becoming better and better at producing T-Shirts AND superconductors because it can do so much more cheaply.. so, China gains more than the U.S. and the U.S. actually starts to slide backwards..

And then voters compound the problem by getting all in a tizzy and voting to further cut education, health care, and infrastructure funding because their incomes aren't rising and they blame it all on taxes.

Yes, it's a vicious cycle... if only the free market worked like it's supposed to!

Yeah I know it's straight out of an intro to econ class because the benefits from free trade ARE simple economics.  Even if China becomes better at producing both than the US (say, switch the numbers around) *we still have a comparative advantage at one.*  The US is never going to find its future in an industrial economy like one can find in Western Pennsylvania because the rest of the world is comparatively better at doing what they do compared to everything else than the United States (we're really bloody good at chemicals & aircraft while the rest of the world isn't, for example).  I was just answering your earlier question as to why US workers are less efficient.  It's not that we're less efficient, it's just has to do with the relative price of our products since we're so awesome and producing many other service-oriented, highly-specialized, and investment-heavy things.

[zombones]

DAMN ELITISTS!!!!

[Person Man]

We can't continue to buy products from countries with no respect for the environment or human rights.. of course they can produce stuff cheaper than we can!  They can dump their sludge in the river and make 8 year olds do it... how are we supposed to compete with that?

It's not about competing on individual markets.  Even if a country produces at 1/1000th of the level of efficiency and cost effectiveness as our country, we will STILL be able to mutually benefit from trade.

Look:
United States can make 500 superconductors or 500 shirts in a day/month/whatever
China can produce 1 superconductor or 100 shirts

US is much more efficient at both items.  But China has a comparative advantage at making shirts while the US has a comparative advantage at making superconductors.  We both make what we're good at and trade for the other, resulting in a maximization of our happiness!  Even if the US only wants shirts and China only wants superconductors, they would still make what they're good at.

Fair trade is important regarding some things, but it's not as big of a deal as you depict it.  For example, I wouldn't want African countries to enter a vicious cycle to see who can lower workplace safety the most in certain markets (mining) but that isn't really what you're talking about..

That's how it works in an idealistic world.. straight out of textbook economics 101.

But what has happened in the U.S. is that through neglecting our education, health care, and infrastructure systems, we are losing our comparative advantage at producing superconductors while China is becoming better and better at producing T-Shirts AND superconductors because it can do so much more cheaply.. so, China gains more than the U.S. and the U.S. actually starts to slide backwards..

And then voters compound the problem by getting all in a tizzy and voting to further cut education, health care, and infrastructure funding because their incomes aren't rising and they blame it all on taxes.

Yes, it's a vicious cycle... if only the free market worked like it's supposed to!

Yeah I know it's straight out of an intro to econ class because the benefits from free trade ARE simple economics.  Even if China becomes better at producing both than the US (say, switch the numbers around) *we still have a comparative advantage at one.*  The US is never going to find its future in an industrial economy like one can find in Western Pennsylvania because the rest of the world is comparatively better at doing what they do compared to everything else than the United States (we're really bloody good at chemicals & aircraft while the rest of the world isn't, for example).  I was just answering your earlier question as to why US workers are less efficient.  It's not that we're less efficient, it's just has to do with the relative price of our products since we're so awesome and producing many other service-oriented, highly-specialized, and investment-heavy things.

...and that's what we should emphasize. Unfortunately at this point, there isn't enough jobs in the areas that we are good at. ...and the other side of comparitive advantage is that we might get better at lower-paying things compared to others.

[Democratic Hawk]

For what it's worth here's a hypothetical white, male, working class, small town, Christian, gun-owner who would be voting for Obama because I know he cares about the socio-economic well being of people like me

Dave

[Person Man]

Somehow that has changed in most people. I am guessing the role of government in the minds of most people has change from a forum to address your grievances to a vehicle of engineering the "common good".

[J. J.]

Obama seems to be talking about an economy as it was 35 years ago.  That is called being out of touch.

Or maybe you are trying to defend your own credibility as it is the generals and you are trying to solidify your case for Micky C.

No, there are enough links on this tread, and enough reporting, to show that Obama was wrong even on the econimic aspect of the statement.  Obamality, not reality.

[Sam Spade]

The fun continues...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D901A22G3&show_article=1
 
Obama Turns Table on Clinton
Apr 13 08:07 PM US/Eastern
By BETH FOUHY
Associated Press Writer

STEELTON, Penn. (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama lashed out Sunday at rival Hillary Rodham Clinton, mocking her sudden vocal support for gun rights and saying he understands the concerns of working class people.
"She knows better. Shame on her. Shame on her," Obama told an audience at a union hall here.

The Illinois senator has spent two days on the defensive after comments he made at a San Francisco fundraiser suggesting working class people are bitter about their economic circumstances and "cling to guns and religion" as a result. Clinton has pounded him for the remarks, calling him "elitist and divisive."

After reiterating his regret for his choice of words, Obama turned the tables on Clinton—mocking, among other things, her sudden fealty to the rights of gun owners.

"She is running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsman, how she values the second amendment. She's talking like she's Annie Oakley," Obama said, invoking the famed female sharpshooter immortalized in the musical "Anne Get Your Gun."

Obama continued, saying "Hillary Clinton is out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday. She's packing a six-shooter. Come on, she knows better. That's some politics being played by Hillary Clinton."
Personally, I have no idea how anyone could shoot a duck with a six-shooter, but maybe things changed since I last went hunting.

[Torie]

snowguy716, in cashing in your health care chip, are you suggesting the US is suffering the competitive blues, because our workers are sicker than those germ free Chinese stud workers or what?  So many thoughts, so little time.

[Person Man]

snowguy716, in cashing in your health care chip, are you suggesting the US is suffering the competitive blues, because our workers are sicker than those germ free Chinese stud workers or what?  So many thoughts, so little time.

Maybe our workers are sicker than those in Western Europe?

[Person Man]

Obama seems to be talking about an economy as it was 35 years ago.  That is called being out of touch.

Or maybe you are trying to defend your own credibility as it is the generals and you are trying to solidify your case for Micky C.

No, there are enough links on this tread, and enough reporting, to show that Obama was wrong even on the econimic aspect of the statement.  Obamality, not reality.

Oh great. In McWorld, Pennsylvania is this vibrant, fast-growth economically strong state. I think the fact that it is not keeping up with the rest of the country and is losing seats fast is case enough.

[Torie]

snowguy716, in cashing in your health care chip, are you suggesting the US is suffering the competitive blues, because our workers are sicker than those germ free Chinese stud workers or what?  So many thoughts, so little time.

Maybe our workers are sicker than those in Western Europe?

Time for you to do some research and find out!  Get on it!

[Person Man]

snowguy716, in cashing in your health care chip, are you suggesting the US is suffering the competitive blues, because our workers are sicker than those germ free Chinese stud workers or what?  So many thoughts, so little time.

Maybe our workers are sicker than those in Western Europe?

Time for you to do some research and find out!  Get on it!

Do you have the reasearch?

Better yet, Maybe we should compare non-stigmatized Americans to Europeans in Britian, Belgium, Ireland, Luxembourg, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Holland, Denmank and Germany.

I would include Portugual and Norway, but they seem to be too much of mavericks in the Euro-Confederacy.

[zombones]

The fun continues...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D901A22G3&show_article=1
 
Obama Turns Table on Clinton
Apr 13 08:07 PM US/Eastern
By BETH FOUHY
Associated Press Writer

STEELTON, Penn. (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama lashed out Sunday at rival Hillary Rodham Clinton, mocking her sudden vocal support for gun rights and saying he understands the concerns of working class people.
"She knows better. Shame on her. Shame on her," Obama told an audience at a union hall here.

The Illinois senator has spent two days on the defensive after comments he made at a San Francisco fundraiser suggesting working class people are bitter about their economic circumstances and "cling to guns and religion" as a result. Clinton has pounded him for the remarks, calling him "elitist and divisive."

After reiterating his regret for his choice of words, Obama turned the tables on Clinton—mocking, among other things, her sudden fealty to the rights of gun owners.

"She is running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsman, how she values the second amendment. She's talking like she's Annie Oakley," Obama said, invoking the famed female sharpshooter immortalized in the musical "Anne Get Your Gun."

Obama continued, saying "Hillary Clinton is out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday. She's packing a six-shooter. Come on, she knows better. That's some politics being played by Hillary Clinton."
Personally, I have no idea how anyone could shoot a duck with a six-shooter, but maybe things changed since I last went hunting.

I like the new confrontational Obama.

[Person Man]

The fun continues...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D901A22G3&show_article=1
 
Obama Turns Table on Clinton
Apr 13 08:07 PM US/Eastern
By BETH FOUHY
Associated Press Writer

STEELTON, Penn. (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama lashed out Sunday at rival Hillary Rodham Clinton, mocking her sudden vocal support for gun rights and saying he understands the concerns of working class people.
"She knows better. Shame on her. Shame on her," Obama told an audience at a union hall here.

The Illinois senator has spent two days on the defensive after comments he made at a San Francisco fundraiser suggesting working class people are bitter about their economic circumstances and "cling to guns and religion" as a result. Clinton has pounded him for the remarks, calling him "elitist and divisive."

After reiterating his regret for his choice of words, Obama turned the tables on Clinton—mocking, among other things, her sudden fealty to the rights of gun owners.

"She is running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsman, how she values the second amendment. She's talking like she's Annie Oakley," Obama said, invoking the famed female sharpshooter immortalized in the musical "Anne Get Your Gun."

Obama continued, saying "Hillary Clinton is out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday. She's packing a six-shooter. Come on, she knows better. That's some politics being played by Hillary Clinton."
Personally, I have no idea how anyone could shoot a duck with a six-shooter, but maybe things changed since I last went hunting.

I like the new confrontational Obama.

He will need to be that way....thank goodness he is only on the defense. If this keeps up until November, he could fare better than the likes of Dukakis, Gore and Kerry, who either didn't respond to attacks or tried to downplay them. What Obama is showing is that his opponent's ideas about the world and him are respectable ideas and that he will rebut them.

[J. J.]

Obama seems to be talking about an economy as it was 35 years ago.  That is called being out of touch.

Or maybe you are trying to defend your own credibility as it is the generals and you are trying to solidify your case for Micky C.

No, there are enough links on this tread, and enough reporting, to show that Obama was wrong even on the econimic aspect of the statement.  Obamality, not reality.

Oh great. In McWorld, Pennsylvania is this vibrant, fast-growth economically strong state. I think the fact that it is not keeping up with the rest of the country and is losing seats fast is case enough.

No, but it has been shown that PA has grown and that unemployment is lower.  Not perfect, but not "bitter" either.

It's on the news again, with Obama's Annie Oakley comment.  Retro again.  More Obamality.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Obama seems to be talking about an economy as it was 35 years ago.  That is called being out of touch.

Or maybe you are trying to defend your own credibility as it is the generals and you are trying to solidify your case for Micky C.

I think the reaction here by Pennsylvania Republicans only proves what Obama said...
No, there are enough links on this tread, and enough reporting, to show that Obama was wrong even on the econimic aspect of the statement.  Obamality, not reality.

Oh great. In McWorld, Pennsylvania is this vibrant, fast-growth economically strong state. I think the fact that it is not keeping up with the rest of the country and is losing seats fast is case enough.

No, but it has been shown that PA has grown and that unemployment is lower.  Not perfect, but not "bitter" either.

It's on the news again, with Obama's Annie Oakley comment.  Retro again.  More Obamality.

[J. J.]

Obama seems to be talking about an economy as it was 35 years ago.  That is called being out of touch.

Or maybe you are trying to defend your own credibility as it is the generals and you are trying to solidify your case for Micky C.

I think the reaction here by Pennsylvania Republicans only proves what Obama said...
No, there are enough links on this tread, and enough reporting, to show that Obama was wrong even on the econimic aspect of the statement.  Obamality, not reality.

Oh great. In McWorld, Pennsylvania is this vibrant, fast-growth economically strong state. I think the fact that it is not keeping up with the rest of the country and is losing seats fast is case enough.

No, but it has been shown that PA has grown and that unemployment is lower.  Not perfect, but not "bitter" either.

It's on the news again, with Obama's Annie Oakley comment.  Retro again.  More Obamality.

And your comment is?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That Annie Oakley quip was great.

[exopolitician]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Not only is the issue relevant anymore, but Obama isnt an elitist anymore but she still went on saying that "many good men running for president before were viewed as being elitist and out of touch..." aka....her husband. He made pretty much the same comments while campaigning in '92.....interesting.

[J. J.]

That Annie Oakley quip was great.

Yes, in 1956,  Retrobama?

[Democratic Hawk]

This thread is turning into a Biblical epic. I hope the good lad emerges triumphant [Notice I've said lad, rather than wife or Coffin Dodger]

Dave

[Person Man]

Obama seems to be talking about an economy as it was 35 years ago.  That is called being out of touch.

Or maybe you are trying to defend your own credibility as it is the generals and you are trying to solidify your case for Micky C.

No, there are enough links on this tread, and enough reporting, to show that Obama was wrong even on the econimic aspect of the statement.  Obamality, not reality.

Oh great. In McWorld, Pennsylvania is this vibrant, fast-growth economically strong state. I think the fact that it is not keeping up with the rest of the country and is losing seats fast is case enough.

No, but it has been shown that PA has grown and that unemployment is lower.  Not perfect, but not "bitter" either.

It's on the news again, with Obama's Annie Oakley comment.  Retro again.  More Obamality.

Unemployment is low, but where is it compared to the national average and what is the median wage?

[classical liberal]

Obama seems to be talking about an economy as it was 35 years ago.  That is called being out of touch.

Or maybe you are trying to defend your own credibility as it is the generals and you are trying to solidify your case for Micky C.

No, there are enough links on this tread, and enough reporting, to show that Obama was wrong even on the econimic aspect of the statement.  Obamality, not reality.

Oh great. In McWorld, Pennsylvania is this vibrant, fast-growth economically strong state. I think the fact that it is not keeping up with the rest of the country and is losing seats fast is case enough.

No, but it has been shown that PA has grown and that unemployment is lower.  Not perfect, but not "bitter" either.

It's on the news again, with Obama's Annie Oakley comment.  Retro again.  More Obamality.

Unemployment is low, but where is it compared to the national average and what is the median wage?

How is PA's state specific economic freedom index as opposed to the national average, and what is the state of its local institutional environment (labor regulations, minimum wage, licensing requirements, etc)?

Taking in to account PA's relative economic freedom and institutional situation, their employment and wage levels as about what one would expect.

[Person Man]

Obama seems to be talking about an economy as it was 35 years ago.  That is called being out of touch.

Or maybe you are trying to defend your own credibility as it is the generals and you are trying to solidify your case for Micky C.

No, there are enough links on this tread, and enough reporting, to show that Obama was wrong even on the econimic aspect of the statement.  Obamality, not reality.

Oh great. In McWorld, Pennsylvania is this vibrant, fast-growth economically strong state. I think the fact that it is not keeping up with the rest of the country and is losing seats fast is case enough.

No, but it has been shown that PA has grown and that unemployment is lower.  Not perfect, but not "bitter" either.

It's on the news again, with Obama's Annie Oakley comment.  Retro again.  More Obamality.

Unemployment is low, but where is it compared to the national average and what is the median wage?

How is PA's state specific economic freedom index as opposed to the national average, and what is the state of its local institutional environment (labor regulations, minimum wage, licensing requirements, etc)?

Taking in to account PA's relative economic freedom and institutional situation, their employment and wage levels as about what one would expect.

What does that have to do with the situation? Jobs get replaced, with not as good jobs. Those with good jobs don't live in small towns. I really don't know what the hacks on this forum is on, but I know from my in-laws that Ohio/Pennsylvania still hasn't recovered from the 70s-80s.

[Meeker]

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but it seems the author of this agrees with Senator Obama:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Anyone know who wrote it?