Health Care Reform

[DanielX]

Single-payer is by far the best plan, but not politically feasible in the United States at this time.

I do not care weather it is politically feasible or not, it is important that we have it, even if it means election fraud.

!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, but that trips my "if you attempted to actually do this I would consider your assassination reasonable" meter. Both because I'm very much opposed to single payer and, worse, using election fraud to get elected indicates complete disregard for civil rights.

As for health systems, probably the best thing to do would be to decouple maintenance from emergency care.

[DownWithTheLeft]

When was the last time you heard of Americans flying to other countries to get operations?

On the bus from the Bangkok airport to my hotel I was talking with a guy who had just flown direct from LAX for dental surgery and was flying home the next day.

That's not a major operation that requires incredibly high-tech procedures

[Franzl]

When was the last time you heard of Americans flying to other countries to get operations?

On the bus from the Bangkok airport to my hotel I was talking with a guy who had just flown direct from LAX for dental surgery and was flying home the next day.

That's not a major operation that requires incredibly high-tech procedures

umm, so what? It still says quite a bit about our medical system.

[DownWithTheLeft]

When was the last time you heard of Americans flying to other countries to get operations?

On the bus from the Bangkok airport to my hotel I was talking with a guy who had just flown direct from LAX for dental surgery and was flying home the next day.

That's not a major operation that requires incredibly high-tech procedures

umm, so what? It still says quite a bit about our medical system.

It says that some people are moronic, I guarantee you flying to Bangkok and getting an operation costs more than paying for it out of pocket.  No matter how much illegal immigrants drive up health costs, that remains true

[Jake]

That's not a major operation that requires incredibly high-tech procedures

Uh, "dental surgery" can be quite complex. And it speaks to the fact that he could purchase a $1200 plane ticket and pay for the surgery and somehow make it cheaper than what he'd pay over here.

And even if no Americans left the country for operations, that still does not mean our health care system is superior. It means that the highest level of care is superior. That highest level is unatainable to those unable to pay for it out of their pockets.

[Franzl]

That's not a major operation that requires incredibly high-tech procedures

Uh, "dental surgery" can be quite complex. And it speaks to the fact that he could purchase a $1200 plane ticket and pay for the surgery and somehow make it cheaper than what he'd pay over here.

And even if no Americans left the country for operations, that still does not mean our health care system is superior. It means that the highest level of care is superior. That highest level is unatainable to those unable to pay for it out of their pockets.

Absolutely correct

[DownWithTheLeft]

That's not a major operation that requires incredibly high-tech procedures

Uh, "dental surgery" can be quite complex. And it speaks to the fact that he could purchase a $1200 plane ticket and pay for the surgery and somehow make it cheaper than what he'd pay over here.

And even if no Americans left the country for operations, that still does not mean our health care system is superior. It means that the highest level of care is superior. That highest level is unatainable to those unable to pay for it out of their pockets.

And government sponsoring health care would do absolutley nothing to fix that, the only solution is fixing on a private basis.

[Franzl]

That's not a major operation that requires incredibly high-tech procedures

Uh, "dental surgery" can be quite complex. And it speaks to the fact that he could purchase a $1200 plane ticket and pay for the surgery and somehow make it cheaper than what he'd pay over here.

And even if no Americans left the country for operations, that still does not mean our health care system is superior. It means that the highest level of care is superior. That highest level is unatainable to those unable to pay for it out of their pockets.

And government sponsoring health care would do absolutley nothing to fix that, the only solution is fixing on a private basis.

what part of universal health care do you not understand?

[DownWithTheLeft]

That's not a major operation that requires incredibly high-tech procedures

Uh, "dental surgery" can be quite complex. And it speaks to the fact that he could purchase a $1200 plane ticket and pay for the surgery and somehow make it cheaper than what he'd pay over here.

And even if no Americans left the country for operations, that still does not mean our health care system is superior. It means that the highest level of care is superior. That highest level is unatainable to those unable to pay for it out of their pockets.

And government sponsoring health care would do absolutley nothing to fix that, the only solution is fixing on a private basis.

what part of universal health care do you not understand?

That question has nothing to do with my response.  UHC does not nothing but level the playing field by bringing one side down and the other up.  The only way to level the playing field, but bring both sides up is with AHPs and tort reform

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I guarantee you flying to Bangkok and getting an operation costs more than paying for it out of pocket.  No matter how much illegal immigrants drive up health costs, that remains true

Your guarantee is worthless then.  As had already been pointed out, the whole reason for medical tourism is that even with the expense of air travel, it costs considerably less for those who don't have insurance or who have inadequate insurance.

[opebo]

It says that some people are moronic, I guarantee you flying to Bangkok and getting an operation costs more than paying for it out of pocket.  No matter how much illegal immigrants drive up health costs, that remains true

Absolutely not.  A typical minor operation may cost say $20,000 cash in the US.  In Thailand the same thing would typically be around $1,000.  I know from some personal experience.  So, adding $1,200 for the plane fare and say another $2,000 for a generous amount for trip expenses, hotels, etc. (assuming you're an outpatient, as inpatient operations would be far more than $20,000 in the USA).  This leaves a savings of over $15,000.   

I think you have no conception of just how absurdly overpriced health car is in the US - and the reason is of course that it is controlled by a mafia.

[Bluegrass Cruiser 420]

There is really nothing I fear than socialized medicine (AKA demotivation of doctors and destruction of health care).

I have, and probably always will support, Tancredo's plan for AHPs.  Under this plan, small business owners and others without insurance can buy insurance in packs to bring down costs.

I am big fan of that plan as well.

[Jake]

That question has nothing to do with my response.  UHC does not nothing but level the playing field by bringing one side down and the other up.  The only way to level the playing field, but bring both sides up is with AHPs and tort reform

Sure, if the government is simply writing a check for every medical operation out there. However, universal health care doesn't have to mean that. Instead, the government can provide preventative care (the stuff that doesn't cost a lot) to everyone and then people can buy actual insurance in case they need surgery, get cancer, or need a transplant. You seem to be assigning the qualities of Canadian health care to the universal health care term, all so you can frame the debate.

And you must have no concept of how expensive even minor surgery is if paid out of pocket. Wisdom tooth extraction alone (a very minor 45 minute procedure) costs upwards of $1,000 and requires only an anesthetic and labor. How much do you think a hip replacement costs? Open heart surgery? Facial reconstruction surgery?

And the plan you support will not "fix" health care. It will merely help others purchase health "insurance" that will still be extroadinarily expensive.

[DownWithTheLeft]

That question has nothing to do with my response.  UHC does not nothing but level the playing field by bringing one side down and the other up.  The only way to level the playing field, but bring both sides up is with AHPs and tort reform

Sure, if the government is simply writing a check for every medical operation out there. However, universal health care doesn't have to mean that. Instead, the government can provide preventative care (the stuff that doesn't cost a lot) to everyone and then people can buy actual insurance in case they need surgery, get cancer, or need a transplant. You seem to be assigning the qualities of Canadian health care to the universal health care term, all so you can frame the debate.

And you must have no concept of how expensive even minor surgery is if paid out of pocket. Wisdom tooth extraction alone (a very minor 45 minute procedure) costs upwards of $1,000 and requires only an anesthetic and labor. How much do you think a hip replacement costs? Open heart surgery? Facial reconstruction surgery?

And the plan you support will not "fix" health care. It will merely help others purchase health "insurance" that will still be extroadinarily expensive.

What do you think drives up the cost of the surgeries?  You and others seem to be looking for solutions that are merely bandages.  It is impossible to fix anything if you do not actually fix it.  Tort reform and things of that nature will help health care, not government bandages

[King]

I'm all for universal health care, but I just wonder one thing:  Who is going to take care of the millions of unemployed people once all the health insurance companies go belly-up because nobody is buying their services anymore?

[Ebowed]

It says that some people are moronic, I guarantee you flying to Bangkok and getting an operation costs more than paying for it out of pocket.  No matter how much illegal immigrants drive up health costs, that remains true

A disastrous hodegpodge of plain falsehoods and unrelated political platitudes.  I wouldn't expect anything less, you half-wit.

Interesting that you oppose government interference in health care - unless it's tort reform.  Then you love government interference.

Frivolous lawsuits don't drive up the cost of medical procedures nearly as much as you seem to think they do, although I am willing to grant that they would certainly play a (vastly overstated) role.  Assuming that tort reform would be such an influential factor in improving the availability of health care is naive.  Can you come up with any other ideas?  Restricting lawsuits can't be the only thing you've got up your sleeve.

Tancredo's plan is essentially worthless as well.  You seem to neglect the fact that there is a large percentage of people who are unemployed - and do you really expect part-time workers, or people who work in the lowest end jobs (fast food, etc.) to be covered by small businesses buying insurance in "packs"?  Some businesses still may not be able to afford insurance, either, even if the prices are lower, simply because the cost is so high to begin with.

Finally, you neglect the fact that insurance does not necessarily translate into adequate care: life-saving procedures are routinely denied if they aren't covered.

[Bogart]

Single-payer.

[defe07]

That's not a major operation that requires incredibly high-tech procedures

Uh, "dental surgery" can be quite complex. And it speaks to the fact that he could purchase a $1200 plane ticket and pay for the surgery and somehow make it cheaper than what he'd pay over here.

And even if no Americans left the country for operations, that still does not mean our health care system is superior. It means that the highest level of care is superior. That highest level is unatainable to those unable to pay for it out of their pockets.

And government sponsoring health care would do absolutley nothing to fix that, the only solution is fixing on a private basis.

I agree but this could be done if we limit the role of the federal government and give it back to the states.

[Albus Dumbledore]

I'd rather have the swiss plan so Other.