"Swift Boats" stories continue to flounder......

[mddem2004]

Former Swift Boat Commander Backs Kerry on Vietnam

By Carol Giacomo

PITTSBURGH (Reuters) - An American journalist who commanded a boat alongside John Kerry in Vietnam broke a 35-year silence on Saturday and defended the Democratic presidential candidate against Republican critics of his military service and integrity.

Weighing in on the bitterly divisive issue, William Rood of the Chicago Tribune said the tales told by Kerry's detractors are simply untrue.

"There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago -- three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969," he wrote in a story on the newspaper's Web site.

"One is John Kerry ... who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other."

Before now, wanting to put memories of war and killing behind him, Rood refused all interviews. "But Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened were overblown," he wrote.

"It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there," he added.

Kerry, a former Navy lieutenant, is a highly decorated Vietnam veteran, and his war service is essential to his challenge to President Bush as commander-in-chief when America is faces terrorism and other threats.

Increasingly, veterans opposed to Kerry and allied with Bush, led by a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, have tried to undermine Kerry's record and credibility.

Many veterans are bitter that after returning from Vietnam, Kerry became one of the war's most prominent critics.

After a new CBS poll showing Kerry's support among veterans slipping since the Democratic convention, the Massachusetts senator launched a counterattack.

On Friday, he accused the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth of collaborating with the Bush campaign and asked the Federal Election Commission to force the group to withdraw its ads.

Bush spent the war in the United States serving in the Texas Air National Guard. Some Democrats accuse Bush of going absent without leave from the guard, citing gaps in his attendance record.

AGGRESSIVE AND UNUSUAL COUNTERATTACK

In the Chicago Tribune article, Rood said Kerry urged him to go public with his account.

While "I can't pretend those calls had no effect on me ... what matters most to me is that this is hurting crewmen who are not public figures and who deserved to be honored for what they did," Rood wrote.

Members of Kerry's swift boat crew have played a prominent role in his campaign, appearing at the Democratic National Convention and many other events.

Rood said he was part of the operation that led to Kerry receiving the Silver Star and had no firsthand knowledge of events that resulted in his Purple Hearts or Bronze Star.

In that February 1969 operation, he said Kerry came under rocket and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong soldiers and Kerry devised an aggressive ad unusual attack strategy that was praised by their superiors.

In their book, "Unfit for Command," Kerry critics John O'Neill and Jerome Corsi accuse Kerry of exaggerating wartime events. They said Kerry's attack on the Viet Cong ambush displayed "stupidity, not courage."

"The only explanation for what Kerry did is the same justification that characterizes his entire short Vietnam adventure: the pursuit of medals and ribbons," they alleged.

Rood said while ambushes were common, the difference in this fight was that Kerry, who had tactical command of the operation, had talked to Rood and other commanders beforehand about not responding the way they usually did to an ambush.

"We agreed that if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush, we would turn directly into it, focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats," Rood said.

He said the first time they took fire Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three boats roared in on the ambush.

The plan worked. "We routed the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops, led by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or captured others," Rood said.

Rood said then-Capt. and now retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, the task force commander, congratulated the three swift boats, saying the tactic of charging the ambushes was a "shining example of completely overwhelming the enemy."

Hoffmann has become a Kerry critic and now says what the boats did that day showed Kerry was impulsive to a fault.


 

[AuH2O]

I wonder how much pressure they put on this guy. I bet it was a lot.

It doesn't matter. The first ad has already worked, and the 2nd ad is indisputable because it is in Kerry's own words.

"Unfit for Command" is not just about Kerry's actions in Vietnam... it is also about his actions at home. And it is the latter which are greater cause for concern, and which will become the focal point of the anti-Kerry sentiment among veterans.

Bush will continue to hammer Kerry on his poor Senate record and indecisiveness.

[mddem2004]

"It doesn't matter. The first ad has already worked...."

Truth DOES matter my friend from across the aisle, even in politics.....

I can't believe you guys can't see that Bush is being, well, rather stupid in all this....

Can't you see that all this does is raise the profile of BOTH candidates military records? Something that I doubt they REALLY want to have happen?

Kerry:
- Volunteered for combat duty in Vietnam after graduation from Yale.
- Decorated Vietnam Combat Vet.
- Dared to tell the truth to the nation about war operations upon return.

Bush:
- Advanced to head of waiting list for Texas Air National Guard with help from Daddy Congressman.
- Failed to show up for Annual Flight Medical Exam in April 1972 disqualifying him to fly.
- Can't adaquately explain large gap service in summer/fall of 1972.

Two very different chosen paths and records.

Bush/Rove Inc. know that Kerry has made a potential inroad into the Veteran Vote, a block that Bush can't afford not to have at least a 20% advantage over his challenger.

Their sleezfest with the "Swifties" signals to me, Kerry has hit a nerve....and their scared.

[AuH2O]

Laughable. Bush has nothing to do with it- contrary to Kerry's rantings. Many of the Swift Vets are independents or Democrats.

Bush was certainly not scared of losing the veteran vote. Dole was a WW2 hero and that did him no good against Clinton.

It's like when Kerry approached those soldiers at Wendy's. They wouldn't even look at him, just answered 'yes, sir' or 'no, sir.' As soon as Kerry departed they told the press following him how disgusted they were he tried to use them to make it look like veterans and active duty military supported him.

No, the controversy erupted because the Swift Vets were tired of seeing Kerry build his political career around Vietnam. The war is over. Kerry's service in no way makes him more qualified to be commander in chief.

He used his anti-war activities to get into Congress and the Senate. Now he is trying to use his war activities to get himself the Presidency. My friend, it doth not go both ways.

Kerry trapped himself, and he's paying the price. Combined with his overall weakness, it spells disaster.

[The Duke]

"It doesn't matter. The first ad has already worked...."

Truth DOES matter my friend from across the aisle, even in politics.....

I can't believe you guys can't see that Bush is being, well, rather stupid in all this....

Can't you see that all this does is raise the profile of BOTH candidates military records? Something that I doubt they REALLY want to have happen?

Kerry:
- Volunteered for combat duty in Vietnam after graduation from Yale.
- Decorated Vietnam Combat Vet.
- Dared to tell the truth to the nation about war operations upon return.

Bush:
- Advanced to head of waiting list for Texas Air National Guard with help from Daddy Congressman.
- Failed to show up for Annual Flight Medical Exam in April 1972 disqualifying him to fly.
- Can't adaquately explain large gap service in summer/fall of 1972.

Two very different chosen paths and records.

Bush/Rove Inc. know that Kerry has made a potential inroad into the Veteran Vote, a block that Bush can't afford not to have at least a 20% advantage over his challenger.

Their sleezfest with the "Swifties" signals to me, Kerry has hit a nerve....and their scared.

Here's how I'd sum up their records between 1968 and 1972.

Kerry
-Exaggerated stories to recieve additional medals
-Recieved a purple heart for a self-inflicted wound
-Left ietnam after four months, making him the shortest serving swift boat captain in the war
-Led the Winter Soldier Investigation
-Purjured himself before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
-Coordinated his protest efforts with North Vietnamese leaders
-Attended a V.V.A.W. meeting where the assination of US Senators was planned

Bush
-Drank lots of beer

We report, you decide!

[JNB]

.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Here's how I'd sum up their records between 1968 and 1972.

Kerry
-Exaggerated stories to recieve additional medals
-Recieved a purple heart for a self-inflicted wound
-Left ietnam after four months, making him the shortest serving swift boat captain in the war
-Led the Winter Soldier Investigation
-Purjured himself before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
-Coordinated his protest efforts with North Vietnamese leaders
-Attended a V.V.A.W. meeting where the assination of US Senators was planned

Bush
-Drank lots of beer

We report, you decide!

You must be logged in to read this quote.

  Prove each one of those charges. The mroe charges that comes out, the more difficult they are to prove. As far as I can tell John, you just parrot the likes of Malkin and other Neo-Con pundits. The more BS that the Swift Boaters pile on, the more likely it will blow up in their faces.

[The Duke]

JNB,

1. Michelle Malkin is not a neoconservative.

2. The new book "Unfit for Command" does a good job of laying out these instances.

3. John Kerry recieved a purple heart for a wound that was self-inflicted.  Durign a mission that he described to Douglas Brinkley, Kerry's personal historian, as "a half-assed action that hardly qualified as combat."  he fired a grenade at an unarmed boat, a sampan, that he suspected of carrying contraband.  The explosion of the boat sent a piece of shrapnel into Kerry's arm.  For this self-inflicted wound, he recieved one of his three purple hearts.

4. This is not disputed by anyone.  It is a simple fact that Kerry served four months, and it is also fact that Kerry's tour was the shortest of any swift boat captain in the war.

5. Again, no one disputes Kerry was involved in the Winter Soldier Investigation.

6. By presenting the following testimony before the SFRC, he committed perjury, seeing as the alelgations came from the Winter Soldier Investigation and were proved to be false.  The key piece of his testimony went as follows: "I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command"

7. He went to Paris during the peace talks and met with NVA officials to talk about how best to attack the Nixon administration.

8. First, Kerry denied having been at the meeting in KC, saying he'd resigned from V.V.A.W. before it took place.  He later admitted he was lying, but said he resigned after he had attended the meeting.  He was forced to admit this when FBI files disclosed that he had been there.  The V.V.A.W. plotted to kill Senators John Tower (R-TX), Strom Thurmond (R-SC), and John Stennis (D-MS).  18 months later, Senator Stennis was shot outside his home, but lived.

[Jake]

Have you read Unfit for Command. No, well read it.  Look up the sources mentioned.

And about John Ford being a Neo-Con parrot. Yeah right.  I consider him the best informed poster on these boards.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Unfortunately, the facts are against the kerry supporters, so they insist on name calling.

There are several interesting aspects of this controversey.

First, Kerry decided to make his brief service more than a third of a century ago the centerpiece of his campaign.  He has been largely silent about his role in the Senate.  I suggest the reason for this can be found by looking at his record in the Senate.

Second, there is a significant number of mistatements by Kerry about Viet Nam which have been clearly documented.  He has already backed away from some, and his own diaries contradict others.

Third, the media has largely avoided investigating the substance of the charges.  There is a massive cover up on this matter.

Fourth, the left is raging helplessly, engaging in ad hominem attacks and trying to change the focus.  They will NOT deal with the specific facts.

Second,

[CARLHAYDEN]

Sorry, I was interupted while composing my post, and the second 'second' was a typo.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Laughable. Bush has nothing to do with it- contrary to Kerry's rantings. Many of the Swift Vets are independents or Democrats.

Bush was certainly not scared of losing the veteran vote. Dole was a WW2 hero and that did him no good against Clinton.

It's like when Kerry approached those soldiers at Wendy's. They wouldn't even look at him, just answered 'yes, sir' or 'no, sir.' As soon as Kerry departed they told the press following him how disgusted they were he tried to use them to make it look like veterans and active duty military supported him.

No, the controversy erupted because the Swift Vets were tired of seeing Kerry build his political career around Vietnam. The war is over. Kerry's service in no way makes him more qualified to be commander in chief.

He used his anti-war activities to get into Congress and the Senate. Now he is trying to use his war activities to get himself the Presidency. My friend, it doth not go both ways.

Kerry trapped himself, and he's paying the price. Combined with his overall weakness, it spells disaster.

Two words:
Ken Cordier

Bush is in deep sh**t.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=6036302

[AuH2O]

My friend, do you have any idea how many connections there are between leftist 527s and the Kerry campaign?

This is nothing in comparison. Kerry won't make an issue out of it, because if he does, it gives Bush a reason to hit back.

[??????????]

You democrats are idiots and I am laughing so hard. Kerry is in the toilet now. How do you deny and call liars over 200 Veterans and 67 Swift boat vets. Yeah, spend four months in Vietnam and get all those medals..sure....talk about someone who should have been fragged.

[Bogart]

It really doesn't matter from an efficacy standpoint if the ads are true or not. Just the same way it didn't matter if the $63 million in 527 ads attacking Bush were true. What matters now is that Kerry is having to spend time (and, more importantly, money) defending himself from them.

Consider also, that Bush is about to get prime time publicity for free from the Republican convention. I think it's Kerry that's in it right now.

[JNB]

JNB,

1. Michelle Malkin is not a neoconservative.

2. The new book "Unfit for Command" does a good job of laying out these instances.

3. John Kerry recieved a purple heart for a wound that was self-inflicted.  Durign a mission that he described to Douglas Brinkley, Kerry's personal historian, as "a half-assed action that hardly qualified as combat."  he fired a grenade at an unarmed boat, a sampan, that he suspected of carrying contraband.  The explosion of the boat sent a piece of shrapnel into Kerry's arm.  For this self-inflicted wound, he recieved one of his three purple hearts.

4. This is not disputed by anyone.  It is a simple fact that Kerry served four months, and it is also fact that Kerry's tour was the shortest of any swift boat captain in the war.

5. Again, no one disputes Kerry was involved in the Winter Soldier Investigation.

6. By presenting the following testimony before the SFRC, he committed perjury, seeing as the alelgations came from the Winter Soldier Investigation and were proved to be false.  The key piece of his testimony went as follows: "I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command"

7. He went to Paris during the peace talks and met with NVA officials to talk about how best to attack the Nixon administration.

8. First, Kerry denied having been at the meeting in KC, saying he'd resigned from V.V.A.W. before it took place.  He later admitted he was lying, but said he resigned after he had attended the meeting.  He was forced to admit this when FBI files disclosed that he had been there.  The V.V.A.W. plotted to kill Senators John Tower (R-TX), Strom Thurmond (R-SC), and John Stennis (D-MS).  18 months later, Senator Stennis was shot outside his home, but lived.

 
  John, you are good at talking points, not substance. The fact that disturbs me the most about the Swift Boaters is the fact they did not serve on the same boat as Kerry, and how facts can be distorted. John O Neil and John Kerry has a long history at being rivals, going back to the eraly 70s during the congressional hearings on the Vietnam War. Mr O Neil has a score to settle, and he has been funded by GOP groups to do so, and as it is, other vets who did serve alongside Kerry are coming forward to defend his actions during the Vietnam War.

  As for why Kerry was in Vietnam for only 4 months, well ask the Navy why, Kerry as an officer would not have had any leeway on how long he was stationed in Vietnam for.

  In any event, this whole episode is sleezy from top to bottom. Rove used these tactics in 2000 to slime Sen McCain, and groups inspried by him are trying this again, but the nation as a whole is not nearly as conservative as the electorate of South Carolina, and also Rove is no Lee Atwater. At least Atwater attacked Dukakis on policies he supported, these groups are attacking Kerry based on half truths if not lies.

[??????????]

And you dodge MoveOn(HateAmerica).org again.

[JNB]

 You know, I also think Moveon should be shut down as well, as all 527s, but at least the move on ads I have seen here in Ohio hit Bush not on a personal level, but deal with his polices, especially on the issue of job outsourcing(I also feel that importation of cheap and usually illegal labor is just as bad if not worse). The Swift Boat ads bring into question a man who did serve the country in a hostile enviroment, not a man who hid behind the protection of being born into a blue blooded WASP family.

   Anyways, the new Buchanan book coming out this week should be an intresting read, should give more of a view what happened to the GOP in the last 15 years.

[??????????]

not a man who hid behind the protection of being born into a blue blooded WASP family.

Are we talking about JFK or Bush. Anyways, of course Bush did dodge the military. Most rich kids do, and I don't hold that against them. Just another priviledge of having power and money.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Actually, Bush served in the Air National Guard, which is part of the reserve forces of the Armed Forces.

That is NOT dodging service!

He served as a fighter pilot, which is a rather dangerous specialization (i.e. above average fatality rate versus many other specializations).

[mddem2004]

He served as a fighter pilot, which is a rather dangerous specialization (i.e. above average fatality rate versus many other specializations).

Is that why he failed to show for his Flight Physical Exam in April 1972?

Just curious......

[JNB]

not a man who hid behind the protection of being born into a blue blooded WASP family.

Are we talking about JFK or Bush. Anyways, of course Bush did dodge the military. Most rich kids do, and I don't hold that against them. Just another priviledge of having power and money.

  And in the end, this is why I can not support Mr Bush. He is isolated and clueless. He wants to fight a war against terror, yet does nothing about the US border security, nor does anything to the employers who hire illegal aliens, and he supports more H1B visas. Bush also is a "free trader", meaning allowing US companies to send jobs and technology to Red China, while ignoreing the fact many of these same countries do not let US goods in. Also Bush has spent the US into a hole at a faster rate than any president since LBJ.

  And  Bush more any other president resmbles fellow Texan, LBJ, in terms of the wreckless damage he is doing to futrure generations of this former great nation. As I said before, Bush is a disgrace to conservatism, and the sooner the GOP purges Neo-Cons and their ilk like Bush from the GOP, the better.

[??????????]

But of course Bush didn't have to "get someone out of the way" to get into office.

[Democratic Hawk]

The more I see of the SBVFT - the more their actions repel me. Their story has more holes in it than a sive - most of them don't know John Kerry from Adam.

I believe the guys who actually served with Kerry on his boat.

I'm sick of the sight of SBVFT on Fox News. They getting much more exposure than their smear tactics deserve.

Kerry served honourably in Vietnam and then campaigned against the war on his return, which he was perfectly entitled to do so. By that time, America was on a hiding to nothing. Enough lives had been lost. Atrocities did occur in Vietnam, regardless of what the SBVFT say.

I think it's time this shoddy episode died a death and the campaign got back to the real issues.

Dave

[CARLHAYDEN]

Simple question for you.

Was John Kerry in Cambodia on Christmas of 1968?

[zorkpolitics]

Kerry is responsible for his own SB mess.   He used a photo of himself with other Swift Boat veterans in his previous campaign, yet 12/13 veterans who could be contacted do not support him for president.

http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/KerryTales/KerryFraud3.htm