Obamas Pastor; America is to blame for 9/11. radicals in my party agree

[AngelFromKansas]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

Im sorry to say this, but this garbage is what the majority of obama supporters agree. they dont blame the taliban or bin laden. they think the american governments actions in the middle east were partly to blame for 9/11 when terrorists invaded this country and murdered over 3000 people.

this is why obamas supporters vote for him. obama democrats love america conditionally. when george bush is president they bash everything he does. they never reach over and say actually thats a good policy. they just attack and attack.

hillary clinton should be the nominee as the majority of her supporters are hard-working people who just want to have the opportunity in life to succeed. they arent voting for her because the colour of her skin. they arent voting her because shes acceptable to the certain social groups.

democrats that vote for obama also voted for kerry and gore. and guess what the supreme court has been virtually destroyed.

the countrys liberty is threatened with one more conservative judge so what do democrats do thats right shoot themselves and vote obama

thank god we dont have to fight ww2 today

[agcatter]

Obama has a problem.  This will hurt bad with the Reagan Democrats he will need in the fall.  Will cut into his support among independents as well.

[Brittain33]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

Im sorry to say this, but this garbage is what the majority of obama supporters agree. they dont blame the taliban or bin laden.

I've only recently started reading this particular forum. My question is, have the posts and discussion always been this bad, or has there been a recent race to the bottom? What's causing this and will it be worthwhile again?

I am a Clinton voter who has had it up to here with the Obama dynamic on Daily Kos, but even at my most annoyed I'd never think that they were all little Ward Churchills or such crap.

[exopolitician]

Yes....im one of the many millions of Obama supporters that think missles attached to the planes that hit the World Trade center is what caused so much damage...and that planned demolition is what brought them down. Not to mention a missle....not a plane struck the Pentagon despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary and the government is behind it all and Bush is the actual murderer of the 3000 that day.

Your an idiot, and you know nothing about what the "majority" of Obama supporters believe.

[Flying Dog]

Yes....im one of the many millions of Obama supporters that think missles attached to the planes that hit the World Trade center is what caused so much damage...and that planned demolition is what brought them down. Not to mention a missle....not a plane struck the Pentagon despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary and the government is behind it all and Bush is the actual murderer of the 3000 that day.

Your an idiot, and you know nothing about what the "majority" of Obama supporters believe.

[John Dibble]

You wrote sentences - how cute. You're very talented for your age. Here, have some candy.



There you go. Scurry off now. The adults are trying to have serious discussions about things you wouldn't understand.

[Reaganfan]

The only thing we have to blame is not taking action fast enough. As soon as the '93 attack occured....Clinton could have prepared the nation and the world for the War on Terror, and hunted every Al Qaida cell they could find. Instead, it was treated as a police matter. It SHOULD have been a declaration of war...but it wasn't "BIG" enough. Eight years later, we knew we had an enemy so fueled by hate that they had indeed declared WAR. That's one thing I had trouble with a "President Gore" scenario....as I don't believe these Democrats who say he would have gone into Afghanistan. I think the most he would have done would have been to shoot a few missiles at Kabul....and he certainly wouldn't have created the Department of Homeland Security or passed the Patriot Act or conducted wiretapping.

That's why I am supporting John McCain, and that's why national security is my number one issue. The reason we haven't been attacked is VERY likely because of the things such as the Patriot Act that the Bush Administration has enacted...and if we get a President Obama...he's gonna tear that act to shreds...and risk America's security.

Also, I hate having people who ask "WHY" and that is one thing that gives me a disdain for liberal-minded people. There always has to be a reason for something...and nothing in their mind can ever just "happen". If the hurricane hits...it hits because it's mother nature...but to the liberals...there has to be some "present day underlying cause". If a terror attack happens...it's because the terrorists want us dead for reasons already known...but the liberals ask "WHY". I remember back in late June 2007, when there were attempted terror attacks in Scotland and the U.K, someone on the forum posted something to the effect of "Why would they attack Scotland if BLAH BLAH BLAH, ect ect"

I tried to relay to them...with terrorists...it is simple. THEY WANT US DEAD IF WE DON'T ADOPT THEIR ISLAMIC EXTREMIST VIEWS AND RELIGIONS. BY US...IT MEANS...ANYONE. Iraq, Germany, Scotland, Ireland, Spain, United States, ANYONE.

To ask "WHY" is dumb when we know the reason. "WHY DID WE INVADE IRAQ?" We invaded because it was 18 months after 9/11 and everyone knew Saddam was a threat. "WHY IRAQ IF THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11?" In the post-9/11 world, any and all threats had to be taken seriously. "WHY WERE THERE NO WMD's FOUND?" Saddam either moved them or the intel was bad.

[bullmoose88]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

Im sorry to say this, but this garbage is what the majority of obama supporters agree. they dont blame the taliban or bin laden. they think the american governments actions in the middle east were partly to blame for 9/11 when terrorists invaded this country and murdered over 3000 people.

You actually used proper capitalization. Kudos.
'
But you don't think, in some way, our foreign policy, while not being the direct cause for our terrorism woes, didn't agitate these fundamentalists in any way shape or form to cause them to hate the United States?

I mean, the people and nations of the Muslim world after WWII thought very highly of the US (see the Suez incident, etc), their opinon changed of course when we began to replace the British and the French imperialism with our own.

Examples include...Ike's support of coups in Iran in the 50s, unwaivering support for Israel (even when its in the wrong), US troops in saudi arabia etc...

[MODU]

I've only recently started reading this particular forum. My question is, have the posts and discussion always been this bad, or has there been a recent race to the bottom? What's causing this and will it be worthwhile again?

I am a Clinton voter who has had it up to here with the Obama dynamic on Daily Kos, but even at my most annoyed I'd never think that they were all little Ward Churchills or such crap.

We have a few "special" posters on this board, but for the most part the people are "normal."

[J. J.]

While I disagree that the majority of Obama supporter's agree with this, it is a problem for Obama.  He has to disassociate himself from the remarks, while not disassociate himself from the church.

[Franzl]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

Im sorry to say this, but this garbage is what the majority of obama supporters agree. they dont blame the taliban or bin laden. they think the american governments actions in the middle east were partly to blame for 9/11 when terrorists invaded this country and murdered over 3000 people.

this is why obamas supporters vote for him. obama democrats love america conditionally. when george bush is president they bash everything he does. they never reach over and say actually thats a good policy. they just attack and attack.

hillary clinton should be the nominee as the majority of her supporters are hard-working people who just want to have the opportunity in life to succeed. they arent voting for her because the colour of her skin. they arent voting her because shes acceptable to the certain social groups.

democrats that vote for obama also voted for kerry and gore. and guess what the supreme court has been virtually destroyed.

the countrys liberty is threatened with one more conservative judge so what do democrats do thats right shoot themselves and vote obama

thank god we dont have to fight ww2 today

This implication is absolutely shameful. You've crossed the line here, trying to demonize Obama, not caring at all about the accuracy of your claims. I've accused you previously of being a hack, but this is just plain sickening. Be ashamed of yourself.

[Sam Spade]

All of this makes Geraldine Ferraro look like a saint.  But it's not anything we didn't know before.  So when is Obama going to repudiate his own church?

[agcatter]

He won't because I suspect he buys into some of what this racist believes.  Obama just needs to keep the mask on for 8 more months.

[MODU]

He won't because I suspect he buys into some of what this racist believes.  Obama just needs to keep the mask on for 8 more months.

He can say "I believe in a separation of church and state ... unless it brings me some votes."  hahaha . . . he can easily downplay this by saying "everyone is entitled to their own opinions" or something along those lines in his gifted oratory style.

[emailking]

they think the american governments actions in the middle east were partly to blame for 9/11 when terrorists invaded this country and murdered over 3000 people.

Both are true.

You stick your hand in the hornets' nest and the hornets will sting you.

[agcatter]

I won't waste my time arguing whether there is anything true in what Rev Racist says.  Only that it will hurt Obama among the type of working class white Democrats that he'll need to win in November.  This sh**t isn't going to fly and you're kidding yourself if you think working class white Democrats and a significant number of independents aren't going to be turned off by this stuff.

Just saying "it wasn't me who said it" works fine for the Obama koolaid drinkers.  They aren't the swing voters in this election.  Also, I'd be very surprised if more and more of this guy's sermons don't start seeing the light of day.  It isn't going away.

[JSojourner]

Obama should be even more forceful in repudiating his former pastor's views on race and so forth.  McCain should repudiate the visciously anti-Catholic, anti-gay and anti-Muslim views of John Hagee.

But don't hold your breath.

We have yet to hear George W. Bush repudiate the views of James "gays are child molesters" Dobson, Bob "Apartheid" Jones University, Pat "someone should nuke Foggy Bottom" Robertson, or Jerry "Gays caused 9/11" Falwell.

Now if Beelzebush would care to demonstrate real leadership and set an example for the men who wish to succeed him.......

He is "the decider", after all...

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Obama should be even more forceful in repudiating his former pastor's views on race and so forth.  McCain should repudiate the visciously anti-Catholic, anti-gay and anti-Muslim views of John Hagee.

Hagee is not McCain's pastor, and McCain has no real association with him.  Wright married Michelle and Barack, and baptised their children.  Barack decided to join Trinity UCC because of Wright's message.

We have yet to hear George W. Bush repudiate the views of James "gays are child molesters" Dobson, Bob "Apartheid" Jones University, Pat "someone should nuke Foggy Bottom" Robertson, or Jerry "Gays caused 9/11" Falwell.

I dunno about Bush, but I think that John McCain has repudiated all of those folks at one time or another

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I can't believe he still considers himself a member of this church and he's still seeking the office of the Presidency. How dense must we all be? When will this nonsense stop? Obama associates with radicals. This man isn't the only radical he's close to.

[JSojourner]

I don't care who someone's pastor is.  A pastor can do a variety of thing for someone.  For several years, our priest was an extremely conservative woman politically -- anti-choice, anti-gay rights, anti-environment and pro-Iraq war.  Big Bush supporter.

I disagreed with her often and we got along famously.

Because when she talked about Jesus, the cross, the resurrection, prayer, sin and redemption and these sorts of things -- I was completely in sync with her.

It's possible that's where Obama is coming from.  I don't know.  

As to Hagee not being McCain's pastor, I don't see how that is different.  Hagee already brags about being an advisor to Presidents and having access to the White House during his TV sermons.  McCain needs to assure us that if Hagee drops by, it will be to provide spiritual succor and prayer...not a plan for inaugurating World War three.

Likewise, I sincerely do feel Obama needs to make sure voters understand that if he turns to Pastor Wright, it will be for personal counsel, spiritual advice and devotional inspiration...not racial or political instruction.

[JSojourner]

I can't believe he still considers himself a member of this church and he's still seeking the office of the Presidency. How dense must we all be? When will this nonsense stop? Obama associates with radicals. This man isn't the only radical he's close to.

Do you also condemn Trent Lott and others who are close to the Council of Conservative Citizens?  When we say "close to", what do we mean?  People excuse Lott and other Republicans for address white supremacists like the CCC because "it was just a rubber chicken dinner" or "they just raised funds" for him.  If so, let's be sure Obama's involvement with black extremists runs deeper.  Otherwise, cut him the same slack you cut the CCC sympathizers.

[agcatter]

Some of you need to get a clue.  The reason Obama has done as well as he has with white voters is because he has appeared to transcend race.  To the extent that his pastor continues to spew this kind of stuff undermines that appeal.  It's the Jesse Jacksonization of Obama only this minister is saying stuff that makes Jackson look like a moderate.

For those of you who argue that his pastor is somehow just telling it like it is, you're full of it if you think you're going to sell that to mainstream America.  You may buy into it, but you are in the extreme minority.

For those of you who argue that it's just his pastor and is not speaking for Obama that may be true.  However, that ultimately won't wash either because it begs the question as to why has Obama chosen this guy as his pastor.  I wouldn't dismiss that question as something mainstream white Americans aren't going to consider before they go into that voting booth - you know, the white Americans that Obama needs to win the GE.

Obama had better deal with this.  Right now he seems to be content to just ignore it.  As more and more comes out about this guy and his pastor's 9-11 views, white American oppression crap gets more play in the mainstream press, the people who he actually needs to win the election aren't going to like it one bit.  He'd better put some distance between himself and this poison.

The tilt of this board is decidedly to the left and sometimes I think the echo chamber around here makes some of you believe this country is as left as you'd like to believe.  It's centrist and what that pastor is selling is anything but centrist.

Think about it.

[War on Want]

The only thing we have to blame is not taking action fast enough. As soon as the '93 attack occured....Clinton could have prepared the nation and the world for the War on Terror, and hunted every Al Qaida cell they could find. Instead, it was treated as a police matter. It SHOULD have been a declaration of war...but it wasn't "BIG" enough. Eight years later, we knew we had an enemy so fueled by hate that they had indeed declared WAR. That's one thing I had trouble with a "President Gore" scenario....as I don't believe these Democrats who say he would have gone into Afghanistan. I think the most he would have done would have been to shoot a few missiles at Kabul....and he certainly wouldn't have created the Department of Homeland Security or passed the Patriot Act or conducted wiretapping.

That's why I am supporting John McCain, and that's why national security is my number one issue. The reason we haven't been attacked is VERY likely because of the things such as the Patriot Act that the Bush Administration has enacted...and if we get a President Obama...he's gonna tear that act to shreds...and risk America's security.

Also, I hate having people who ask "WHY" and that is one thing that gives me a disdain for liberal-minded people. There always has to be a reason for something...and nothing in their mind can ever just "happen". If the hurricane hits...it hits because it's mother nature...but to the liberals...there has to be some "present day underlying cause". If a terror attack happens...it's because the terrorists want us dead for reasons already known...but the liberals ask "WHY". I remember back in late June 2007, when there were attempted terror attacks in Scotland and the U.K, someone on the forum posted something to the effect of "Why would they attack Scotland if BLAH BLAH BLAH, ect ect"

I tried to relay to them...with terrorists...it is simple. THEY WANT US DEAD IF WE DON'T ADOPT THEIR ISLAMIC EXTREMIST VIEWS AND RELIGIONS. BY US...IT MEANS...ANYONE. Iraq, Germany, Scotland, Ireland, Spain, United States, ANYONE.

To ask "WHY" is dumb when we know the reason. "WHY DID WE INVADE IRAQ?" We invaded because it was 18 months after 9/11 and everyone knew Saddam was a threat. "WHY IRAQ IF THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11?" In the post-9/11 world, any and all threats had to be taken seriously. "WHY WERE THERE NO WMD's FOUND?" Saddam either moved them or the intel was bad.

You are an idiot sometimes Naso. There is an underlying cause for everything on Earth. Even crazed radicals don't do things on impulse. I think it was not our fault for September 11 but I certainly think that it was a once in a lifetime event that could have been easily prevented. Terrorists are a not a big threat to America at all as long as if we get a little bit more tough on National Security, and be more diplomatic and pragmatic with the Islamic World, and then maybe Extremism wouldn't happen so much. Really the consequences of attacking another country because we think there might be WMD's is so much higher than Hussein actually having them, which he didn't because of Containment policy.
Consequences of Attacking Iraq:
1. Islamic World gets much more pissed at a America
2. Extremism blosoms in the Middle East.
3. Europe becomes much more warry about being allies with America.
4. Iraq becomes a slog and kills thousands of troops and we spend hundreds of Billions of dollars there with little gain for long periods of time.

Benefits of Attacking Iraq:
1. Slight possibility of stopping Hussein from building WMD's
2. Made a "friendly" Democracy in the Middle East.(Where 50% of the people there hate America and 20% dislike America)
3. Have a base against Terrorism and other "bad" guys.(Not really, Afghanistan serves as this base much better Iraq does.

Before you talk about Foriegn Policy you should shut up and think about the facts Naso and not stupid Propaganda from Conservative websites. The fact is going on the "offensive" against Terrorism just hurts America more and this is not the normal war against a nation, it is against a Criminal group that gains members by us being seen as Imperialists.

[War on Want]

I won't waste my time arguing whether there is anything true in what Rev Racist says.  Only that it will hurt Obama among the type of working class white Democrats that he'll need to win in November.  This sh**t isn't going to fly and you're kidding yourself if you think working class white Democrats and a significant number of independents aren't going to be turned off by this stuff.

Just saying "it wasn't me who said it" works fine for the Obama koolaid drinkers.  They aren't the swing voters in this election.  Also, I'd be very surprised if more and more of this guy's sermons don't start seeing the light of day.  It isn't going away.

Of course it will hurt but I promise you that Obama will fight tooth and nail to regain these Working Class Democrats back in the General Election and he will win most of them back, when McCain's Economic Policy is revealed.

[agcatter]

The Reverand Wright's taped sermons aren't gonna help.

They're just now starting to come out and they are scary as hell to working class whites.  These are Reagan Democrats and they're not gonna like what the good Rev is selling.

More to the point, they  are gonna want to know just why Senator Obama has chosen to listen for the last 20 years to this man's Sunday hate sermons.

But hey, some of the Obama supporters seem to be saying, move along,  nothing to see here.

Wanna bet?