McCain's citizenship

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

OK - so I heard from a friend that this was on CNN and I saw a blurb on MSNBC - apparently people are questioning McCain's citizenship?

Since he was born on an overseas army base, some are claiming he's ineligible to be President.  An Army base is U.S. soil (just like an embasy), so how could this be a problem?

[Aizen]

It won't be a problem. Don't worry about it

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

It won't be a problem. Don't worry about it

I don't think it will be either, but where is this stuff coming from?

[Alcon]

He was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which some (very few) people argue makes him not a "natural-born citizen"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23406107/

It also uses the masculine pronoun, though, so a Clinton vs. McCain race clearly = safe Nader.

[Downwinder]

That is ridiculous.  Lots of American citizens are born outside the country.

[minionofmidas]

That is ridiculous.  Lots of American citizens are born outside the country.

Well, it's not about citizenship. Naturalized citizens are ineligible for the Presidency as well (unless they were naturalized before 1787.)

An Army base is U.S. soil (just like an embasy), so how could this be a problem?

That is incorrect. However, he wasn't actually born on a US Army base, but in a (now abandoned) US colony. If McCain is ineligible then so is every Puerto Rican.

Bottom line: "foreign born" has for ages been defined as excluding people born abroad of American parents (as well as colonials like McCain, which I find far more obvious). This definition is constitutionally somewhat questionable, but anyone wanting to challenge it should do so before the situation arises, in order to avoid the stench of political expediency. Of course, it would be best to just change the Constitution.

[NHPolitico]

The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens.  --Naturalization Act of 1790

[True Democrat]

The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens.  --Naturalization Act of 1790

I wish someone in the news would do their research.

Of course, those people will still question McCain will say this is unconstitutional.

[perdedor]

Hardly an issue. McCain should have far bigger concerns regarding his White House bid than whether or not he is eligible, which he obviously is. The only ones that would really argue to the contrary are nationalist, xenophobic, anti-immigration activists/conspiracy theorists.

[minionofmidas]

The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens.  --Naturalization Act of 1790

Thanks for providing the detailed figure to my vague "for ages" statement.

[Akno21]

It's not as if the Democratic candidate will make the case that he shouldn't be allowed to be President because he was born into a military family who at the time was serving overseas. He's fine.

[Silent Hunter]

Quite. Frankly I suspect that some of the people making this argument are, vis this election, Gallus gallus.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

That is ridiculous.  Lots of American citizens are born outside the country.

Well, it's not about citizenship. Naturalized citizens are ineligible for the Presidency as well (unless they were naturalized before 1787.)

Well, then it isn't a problem for McCain.

[CARLHAYDEN]

The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens.  --Naturalization Act of 1790

Thank you.

[NHPolitico]

The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens.  --Naturalization Act of 1790

Thank you.

That's what great about legislation. It's pretty easy to define terms that are open to interpretation in the Constitution. Even if the Naturalization Act of 1790 didn't exist, it could be written up pretty quickly to define what natural born citizen means with almost any definition as long as the Supreme Court didn't say it was out of bounds.  This was a totally idiotic thing for the NYT to bother writing about, since the worst case scenario isn't even a biggie to deal with.

[Ljube]

No Act of Congress can be used to amend the Constitution. Neither can a Senate Resolution passed in April.

There are only two ways to settle this argument: A decision of the Supreme Court or an Amendment to the Constitution.

In my opinion, McCain is not a natural born citizen because in order to get his citizenship he had to go through a naturalization procedure. His naturalization was unquestionable and in accordance with a swift procedure, but it was naturalization nonetheless, and that makes him ineligible.

I am not saying that in case he gets elected he should not become President. I am saying that it would be contrary to the Constitution. There is yet time to resolve this once and for all. There should be a petition to the Supreme Court to give a definitive answer on this issue. If not, then who is to stop other naturalized citizens (Schwarzenegger) from running for President and becoming President?

[MODU]

Old news, and it's a non-issue.  He was born to two US citizens who were deployed by the US government to a US base overseas at a hospital on said base.  Since US bases overseas are sovereign property, just like embassies are, he was born on US soil. 

[Franzl]

No Act of Congress can be used to amend the Constitution. Neither can a Senate Resolution passed in April.

There are only two ways to settle this argument: A decision of the Supreme Court or an Amendment to the Constitution.

In my opinion, McCain is not a natural born citizen because in order to get his citizenship he had to go through a naturalization procedure. His naturalization was unquestionable and in accordance with a swift procedure, but it was naturalization nonetheless, and that makes him ineligible.

I am not saying that in case he gets elected he should not become President. I am saying that it would be contrary to the Constitution. There is yet time to resolve this once and for all. There should be a petition to the Supreme Court to give a definitive answer on this issue. If not, then who is to stop other naturalized citizens (Schwarzenegger) from running for President and becoming President?

Incorrect.

Your comparison with Schwarzenegger is completely off the mark. Schwarzenegger was born abroad to foreign parents.

And please tell me what "naturalization" procedure McCain had to go through.

 

[Ljube]

His birth certificate was issued by a foreign country.

Here's the link:

http://www.travel.state.gov/law/info/overseas/overseas_703.html

The term is “expeditious naturalization”.

This is not a frivolous issue. My comparison with Schwarzenegger may be exaggerated in view of other circumstances and purposefully so, but judging strictly on the issue of eligibility to the Office of President, McCain and Schwarzenegger are the same. Until the Supreme Court rules otherwise.

[Hash]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Lol no.

[MODU]

His birth certificate was issued by a foreign country.

Here's the link:

http://www.travel.state.gov/law/info/overseas/overseas_703.html

The term is “expeditious naturalization”.

This is not a frivolous issue. My comparison with Schwarzenegger may be exaggerated in view of other circumstances and purposefully so, but judging strictly on the issue of eligibility to the Office of President, McCain and Schwarzenegger are the same. Until the Supreme Court rules otherwise.

Again, he was born on US soil in a US hospital to two US citizens on orders by the government.  He's as much of a natural-born citizen as you and I.  There are many precedents before this to make the argument that he isn't eligible baseless.  And when you consider he was vetted both for the 2008 run and the 2000 run on this, it's a non-issue.

[Ljube]

Again, he was born on US soil in a US hospital to two US citizens on orders by the government.  He's as much of a natural-born citizen as you and I.  There are many precedents before this to make the argument that he isn't eligible baseless.  And when you consider he was vetted both for the 2008 run and the 2000 run on this, it's a non-issue.

US bases are not US soil, but barring that I agree with everything else you said.
Still, the wording of the Constitution excludes McCain from becoming President, in my opinion. However, my opinion is not relevant. It is the opinion of the Supreme Court that matters. And I think we need that Supreme Court ruling. Anyway, if McCain wins the election, someone is sure to petition the Supreme Court on the issue of McCain's eligibility and we will finally get a definitive answer.

[Franzl]

My interpretation of "natural born citizen" is having US citizenship at birth, which can be obtained by:

a.) being born in the United States
b.) having at least one American parent, regardless of place of birth. Nothing in the constitution names "place of birth" as a requirement.

So McCain is a natural-born by default, unless the Supreme Court rules otherwise. Not the other way around, as you claim.

[MODU]

Again, he was born on US soil in a US hospital to two US citizens on orders by the government.  He's as much of a natural-born citizen as you and I.  There are many precedents before this to make the argument that he isn't eligible baseless.  And when you consider he was vetted both for the 2008 run and the 2000 run on this, it's a non-issue.

US bases are not US soil, but barring that I agree with everything else you said.
Still, the wording of the Constitution excludes McCain from becoming President, in my opinion. However, my opinion is not relevant. It is the opinion of the Supreme Court that matters. And I think we need that Supreme Court ruling. Anyway, if McCain wins the election, someone is sure to petition the Supreme Court on the issue of McCain's eligibility and we will finally get a definitive answer.

Again, this issue has already been vetted and there is precedence on status of US citizens being natural born to parents on US bases overseas.  It happens many times a day in Okinawa, Germany, Panama, etc...  This would never make it to the Supreme Court because there is no grounds for a case.  I don't understand why people have a hard time with this. 

(I don't mean to sound snippy, by the way.  This is just "old news" in the military community.)

[Middle-aged Europe]

IMHO, it's pretty irrelevant whether McCain was born on a U.S. base and whether this base should be considered U.S. soil. Both of his parents were U.S. citizens at the time of his birth. End of discussion.

If McCain is not a "natural-born cititzen", then what is he exactly? Is/was he technically an immigrant?

And to use an extreme example: Let's suppose that a pregnant American woman from Vermont is visiting Quebec when she is giving birth to her child. Does this mean that her child is constutionally barred from running for president in the future?