Israel

[Sbane]

My two cents: Israel should never have been created where it was because it was tantamount to punishing the people living there(doesnt matter how many there were) for the crimes of Nazi Germany. If any country should have had their territory taken away it should have been germany. Or America or Canada could have given a part of their huge territories to form a Jewish homeland. Of course the British thought it would be easier to just dump them amongst the Arabs. Oh and dont give me that crap about the Jewish homeland and sh**t. Just like the native americans aint getting their land back, the jews also shouldnt have got their land back. Plus they moved VOLUNTARILY to Europe. But of course this is in the past and we cannot go back and change history. I feel some of these attacks, especially by Hezbollah, are very reprehensible. Even the bombings that occur in Israel which kill civilans need to be condemned in the strongest terms. But I have question for you Israel defenders, if IDF troops are shot while inside or close to Palestinian territory would you consider that a terrorist act? I feel any attacks on the IDF are fair game and I hate how they are portrayed as terrorists here.

[Silent Hunter]

I don't consider attacks on the IDF terrorism. Never said I did.

It's not just Nazi Germany who persecuted Jews. Virtually every country in Europe has at one point. The UK expelled them for about four centuries.

[Хahar 🤔]

I don't consider attacks on the IDF terrorism. Never said I did.

It's not just Nazi Germany who persecuted Jews. Virtually every country in Europe has at one point. The UK expelled them for about four centuries.

So you dump them among the Arabs?

[dead0man]

No sh**t!  Nobody irrationally hates the Jews like Arabs do.  You're right Xahar, the Jews shouldn't have moved from one group of monsters to a BIGGER group of monsters.

[Sbane]

No sh**t!  Nobody irrationally hates the Jews like Arabs do.  You're right Xahar, the Jews shouldn't have moved from one group of monsters to a BIGGER group of monsters.

I think that is a result of the arab-israeli conflict of the last 60 years. Their anger is current while European angers...well u guys know that story.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Oh and dont give me that crap about the Jewish homeland and sh**t. Just like the native americans aint getting their land back, the jews also shouldnt have got their land back. Plus they moved VOLUNTARILY to Europe.

Not all that voluntarily; the Romans pretty much kicked them our in 70.

[Silent Hunter]

I don't consider attacks on the IDF terrorism. Never said I did.

It's not just Nazi Germany who persecuted Jews. Virtually every country in Europe has at one point. The UK expelled them for about four centuries.

So you dump them among the Arabs?

It's their homeland, so it's not like there's anywhere better. The Arab population need to accept this too. Speaking of "right of return", that needs to extend to the Jews kicked out of Arab countries as well.

[GMantis]

No sh**t!  Nobody irrationally hates the Jews like Arabs do.  You're right Xahar, the Jews shouldn't have moved from one group of monsters to a BIGGER group of monsters.

If you had bothered to read some real history, you would know that the Arabs were generally less Anti Semitic than the Europeans until the start of the 20th century. And what is your definition of irrational, it seems to completely deviate from the commonly accepted.

I don't consider attacks on the IDF terrorism. Never said I did.

It's not just Nazi Germany who persecuted Jews. Virtually every country in Europe has at one point. The UK expelled them for about four centuries.

So you dump them among the Arabs?

It's their homeland, so it's not like there's anywhere better. The Arab population need to accept this too. Speaking of "right of return", that needs to extend to the Jews kicked out of Arab countries as well.

This is not the homeland of the Jews, they invaded, forced out and killed the native population:
see here.
I don't think the Arabs would be against a "right of return" solution that was two sided. Few Jews would return and they couldn't overwhelm demographically the countries they arrived in, unlike the Arabs in Israel.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

This is not the homeland of the Jews, they invaded, forced out and killed the native population:
see here.

After 3,000 years, it becomes our homeland.  And besides, G-d promised it to us.

[Хahar 🤔]

This is not the homeland of the Jews, they invaded, forced out and killed the native population:
see here.

After 3,000 years, it becomes our homeland.  And besides, G-d promised it to us.

That sort of reasoning will get you nowhere.

Besides, didn't YHWH promise Israel in exchange for a bunch of rules that almost no Jews actually follow?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

This is not the homeland of the Jews, they invaded, forced out and killed the native population:
see here.

After 3,000 years, it becomes our homeland.  And besides, G-d promised it to us.

That sort of reasoning will get you nowhere.

Besides, didn't YHWH promise Israel in exchange for a bunch of rules that almost no Jews actually follow?

Yeah

[Хahar 🤔]

This is not the homeland of the Jews, they invaded, forced out and killed the native population:
see here.

After 3,000 years, it becomes our homeland.  And besides, G-d promised it to us.

That sort of reasoning will get you nowhere.

Besides, didn't YHWH promise Israel in exchange for a bunch of rules that almost no Jews actually follow?

Yeah

Then your argument is null and void. Unless, of course, you want to set up some Hasidic homeland.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

This is not the homeland of the Jews, they invaded, forced out and killed the native population:
see here.

After 3,000 years, it becomes our homeland.  And besides, G-d promised it to us.

That sort of reasoning will get you nowhere.

Besides, didn't YHWH promise Israel in exchange for a bunch of rules that almost no Jews actually follow?

Yeah

Then your argument is null and void. Unless, of course, you want to set up some Hasidic homeland.

That argument is being retired; I've never made it before, and I don't know why I just did.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That argument is beyond retarded unless you accept Hamas' argument that they have a right to all of Israel due to being part of the Caliphate and thus consecrated and forever promised to followers of Islam as valid too.

I'm not going to support terrorism like Xahar, but there is a difference between those cases. The korean family bought that apartment, while the Israeli settlers just invaded and infringed on the arabs' property rights. I'd think two libertarians/classical liberals would be able to see the difference...

And even if the Korean family did move in illegimately, would the proper response be to shoot rockets at Korea? Similarily would it be justifiable if some CARLHAYDEN types started performing terrorism against Mexico in response to illegal immigration?

[Sbane]

Oh and dont give me that crap about the Jewish homeland and sh**t. Just like the native americans aint getting their land back, the jews also shouldnt have got their land back. Plus they moved VOLUNTARILY to Europe.

Not all that voluntarily; the Romans pretty much kicked them our in 70.

That is interesting to know but they still shouldnt have been allowed the land back. Same argument could be made for Native Americans and many such groups around the world. The only reason the creation of Israel was possible is because the British were COLONIZING that land. The Arabs or palastenians or whoever living on that land never got a vote.

[ottermax]

If you say that Jews don't deserve the land because they "invaded" it, then how do you explain the Arabs there. They invaded the region too. Why don't we just give the land back to the biblical Canaanites, the first people there? Wait, they don't exist! Israel has fought for that land and it is only half of the land that originally belonged to Jews in the bible. Israel is the only homeland for the Jews. Muslims have many countries for themselves. There are plenty of Christian majority countries as well. Israel does have many problems and they need to be fixed, but the Jews need a country of their own!

[Хahar 🤔]

If you say that Jews don't deserve the land because they "invaded" it, then how do you explain the Arabs there. They invaded the region too. Why don't we just give the land back to the biblical Canaanites, the first people there? Wait, they don't exist! Israel has fought for that land and it is only half of the land that originally belonged to Jews in the bible. Israel is the only homeland for the Jews. Muslims have many countries for themselves. There are plenty of Christian majority countries as well. Israel does have many problems and they need to be fixed, but the Jews need a country of their own!

Yeah? After 3000 years, any land claims you have are meaningless. Or else Lebensraum would've made sense.

And I totally dispute that last sentence. Jews are doing very well for themselves in America and other Western countries.

[Sbane]

If you say that Jews don't deserve the land because they "invaded" it, then how do you explain the Arabs there. They invaded the region too. Why don't we just give the land back to the biblical Canaanites, the first people there? Wait, they don't exist! Israel has fought for that land and it is only half of the land that originally belonged to Jews in the bible. Israel is the only homeland for the Jews. Muslims have many countries for themselves. There are plenty of Christian majority countries as well. Israel does have many problems and they need to be fixed, but the Jews need a country of their own!

I am not denying they need a country of their own but you cannot just move people from a land and not expect them to fight. Its not like the Arabs did the holocaust which after all is the reason why Israel was created. Again good idea, wrong placement.

[GMantis]

This is not the homeland of the Jews, they invaded, forced out and killed the native population:
see here.

After 3,000 years, it becomes our homeland.  And besides, G-d promised it to us.

It this a joke?
Anyway, why is Israel the only country that is permitted to make claims upon a territory, because they inhabited it a long time ago? No other nation is usually allowed to get away with it: there would be endless wars everywhere over the world if this argument was accepted.

If you say that Jews don't deserve the land because they "invaded" it, then how do you explain the Arabs there. They invaded the region too. Why don't we just give the land back to the biblical Canaanites, the first people there? Wait, they don't exist! Israel has fought for that land and it is only half of the land that originally belonged to Jews in the bible. Israel is the only homeland for the Jews. Muslims have many countries for themselves. There are plenty of Christian majority countries as well. Israel does have many problems and they need to be fixed, but the Jews need a country of their own!

I'm not saying that they don't deserve it because they invaded. I'm just saying this to illustrate the absurdity of making claims to a country just because your distant ancestors lived there a very long time ago.

[Silent Hunter]

Israel turns 60 today.

Happy Birthday!

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Israel turns 60 today.

Happy Birthday!

They turn 60 tomorrow, May 14.

[dead0man]

Odd, they did this last week on the 8th.  What's going on here?

[Хahar 🤔]

Odd, they did this last week on the 8th.  What's going on here?

Weird Jewish calendar thing?

[12th Doctor]

Kol od ba levav penima
nefesh yehudi Homiyah
Ulefa'atei mizra'h kadima
Ayin le siyon tsofiah

Od lo avda tiqvateinu
Hatiqva bat alpayim
Lihiot am 'hofshi bey'artseynu
Erets siyon vi'yerushalaim
Lihiot am 'hofshi be artzeinu
Erets siyon vi'yerushalaim

"Never again." 

^^^^^^^
Sadly, those words have lost their meaning today, as similar heinous crimes still go on all over the world.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Odd, they did this last week on the 8th.  What's going on here?

Odd, they did this last week on the 8th.  What's going on here?

Weird Jewish calendar thing?

Yeah, we have a Lunar calendar, so they followed that.