Until this AM ....

[Wakie]

Right up until this AM I was confident that Hillary was on her way to becoming President.  I really wasn't even shaken by the Iowa results.  But this AM I came to the conclusion that she will not be elected President.

I came to this conclusion listening to morning sports talk radio.  If you really want to get the pulse of what the average person is thinking, listen to sports talk.  People care more about sports than any other topic.  And this morning I heard the giddiness and gloating in the voices as they discussed the prospect of a Hillary defeat.  I was stunned to hear it equally from women as well as men.  And then I realized that it isn't about it being Hillary, it is simply that in my lifetime a woman will never be elected President.

The reason isn't that people overtly think "oh a woman can't do this".  It is rather that we all look at the things that men and women do and we judge them differently based on their gender.

[Ebowed]

And then I realized that it isn't about it being Hillary, it is simply that in my lifetime a woman will never be elected President.

I hope one is, eventually.  Hillary shouldn't be the only woman to choose from.

[StateBoiler]

Right up until this AM I was confident that Hillary was on her way to becoming President.  I really wasn't even shaken by the Iowa results.  But this AM I came to the conclusion that she will not be elected President.

I came to this conclusion listening to morning sports talk radio.  If you really want to get the pulse of what the average person is thinking, listen to sports talk.  People care more about sports than any other topic.  And this morning I heard the giddiness and gloating in the voices as they discussed the prospect of a Hillary defeat.  I was stunned to hear it equally from women as well as men.  And then I realized that it isn't about it being Hillary, it is simply that in my lifetime a woman will never be elected President.

The reason isn't that people overtly think "oh a woman can't do this".  It is rather that we all look at the things that men and women do and we judge them differently based on their gender.

In response to that, I'm going to quote Chris Rock.

"America is ready for a white woman president, but does it have to be this white woman?"

[John Dibble]

And then I realized that it isn't about it being Hillary, it is simply that in my lifetime a woman will never be elected President.

The reason isn't that people overtly think "oh a woman can't do this".  It is rather that we all look at the things that men and women do and we judge them differently based on their gender.

Certainly that last point is a factor, but to say you won't possibly see a woman president in your lifetime is premature. That would be like saying that if Obama lost you'd never see a black president in your lifetime. Hillary's problem is she's not genuine, or at the very least she doesn't come off as genuine - she comes off as cold and calculating. If a woman with genuine charisma were to run she would stand a good chance. Thinking on it Hillary tried to run as if she were a man, using tactics that men have used and sometimes hiding her feminine qualities, and this backfired because as you said we judge men and women differently. This doesn't mean a woman can't win a presidential race, it just means she has to run on the qualities we look for in a female leader and not in a male leader. This doesn't mean that she can't come across as strong, she just can't do it in the same way as a man would do it. But again, it needs to be genuine. Obama's doing well because he seems genuine, and that makes people trust him and that makes them feel good. Hillary just didn't manage to do that.

[AndrewTX]

I'm getting happier and happier knowing that Clinton is getting farther away from being elected President.

 I would like McCain to win, but honestly, I'd be okay with Obama as our President.

[Angel of Death]

Women may well be worried what kind of first impression Hillary might give as President on behalf of all potential women candidates in the future.

[AndrewTX]

Thats the sad part, and hopefully people realize that she isn't winning because shes a woman, she is losing because she is..well..Hillary.

[GOPFlyer10]

Am i the only person who always expected Obama to beat Hillary? I'm not one to put much faith in the polls, just the "pre season buzz" was enough for me to predict this would happen. I also am one of the people who would MUCH prefer to have President Clinton, than President Obama.

[Wakie]

If a man cries he's showing emotions and compassion.  If a woman cries she is being weak.

If a man tells an off-color joke he's being one of the guys.  If a woman tells an off-color joke she's a pig.

There has never been a female politician in American history who has ever delivered a speech which was considered a "great" speech.  Sure, we all tell ourselves that a woman can be President, but we're lying.

[Wakie]

Name a single American female politician with "charisma".  They do not exist because we do not let them exist.  We always label them as too weak or too manly.  It's just how it is.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I think there is a problem that women face. People in places still feel that woman cannot do the job. The ones that make it - Thatcher, Merkel, Clarke (NZ) etc etc are tough, and they have had to be to survive in politics. The problem is that makes them not particularly voter friendly what is cold, calcuating, bitchy in a woman is driven and ambitious in a man. Our Deputy PM Julia Gillard is admired (by some)... but certainly not liked.

Women do need to work harder to get to those positions - it's not pity it's fact.

I do think Hillary is probably going to be the last woman with a real shot at the presidency for a generation.

[Angel of Death]

Elizabeth Dole, for one, had much more broad appeal when she ran, I believe.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Elizabeth Dole, for one, had much more broad appeal when she ran, I believe.

It wasn't exactly a run with a chance was it?

[Angel of Death]

Elizabeth Dole, for one, had much more broad appeal when she ran, I believe.

It wasn't exactly a run with a chance was it?

At least hers wasn't a shameless gimmick like Ferraro's VP spot.

[StateBoiler]

Name a single American female politician with "charisma".  They do not exist because we do not let them exist.  We always label them as too weak or too manly.  It's just how it is.

Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaska

[Verily]

Right up until this AM I was confident that Hillary was on her way to becoming President.  I really wasn't even shaken by the Iowa results.  But this AM I came to the conclusion that she will not be elected President.

I came to this conclusion listening to morning sports talk radio.  If you really want to get the pulse of what the average person is thinking, listen to sports talk.  People care more about sports than any other topic.  And this morning I heard the giddiness and gloating in the voices as they discussed the prospect of a Hillary defeat.  I was stunned to hear it equally from women as well as men.  And then I realized that it isn't about it being Hillary, it is simply that in my lifetime a woman will never be elected President.

The reason isn't that people overtly think "oh a woman can't do this".  It is rather that we all look at the things that men and women do and we judge them differently based on their gender.

It has nothing to do with her being a woman. I'd be perfectly happy, or at least not too dismayed (due to disagreeing politics), with electing almost any of the other prominent women in politics to the White House (Liddy Dole aside as she's incompetent). There do, however, seem to be an inordinate number of Clinton supporters who allege sexism any time anyone says anything negative about Clinton.

[John Dibble]

The ones that make it - Thatcher, Merkel, Clarke (NZ) etc etc are tough, and they have had to be to survive in politics.

I think this comes back to one of my earlier points - you have to be genuine. That's probably the most important thing. From what I know of Thatcher, she was genuinely tough and she let people know it. Hillary might be trying to come off as tougher than she actually is I think, and that's a problem. It's also a problem if she's trying to appear softer than she actually is. I've heard that a number of people on Clinton's campaign team feel that Hillary the candidate isn't the same person as Hillary the person. Whether Hillary is actually a tough bitch with balls or not, she needed to run as what she is, but I think maybe she tried to ride the fence to please everyone. If you're a tough bitch run as one and be proud of it, and if you're not then don't and be proud of it, just don't try to do both.

[Verily]

Name a single American female politician with "charisma".  They do not exist because we do not let them exist.  We always label them as too weak or too manly.  It's just how it is.

Sarah Palin. Kathleen Sebelius. Kirstin Gillibrand. Olympia Snowe. Barbara Mikulski even has quite a bit of charisma even though she's the same age as McCain.

[WalterMitty]

im feeling a bit down this morning.  i suspect t onight wont be good for hillary.

i still believe she has a shot.  a small one.  hopefully people will come to their senses and realize we are electing a president not a motivational speaker.

the thing that makes me the sickest is how all of these obama bandwagon fans have come out of the woodwork.

im not even sure if i want to log on here tonight.  there are only so many 'OMGZ OBAMA IS DA BEST>  HILLARY GOT PWNED>  SHE SUXOR!!11"  comments that i care to read.

it makes me sick.  even sicker than the 'democrats' who fawn all over ron paul.  actually the ron paul paul 'democrats' and the obama bandwagoners are largely coming from the same group of people.

[Wakie]

The names that have been offered up were:

*Liddy Dole - Umm ... she had no more charisma than Hillary.  She was never considered a real Presidential contender nor did she ever deliver a "great" speech.  She was a Republican Nancy Pelosi.  Strong in the party but unlikely to inspire on the national level.

*Sarah Palin - Umm ... she's attractive but nationally she inspires the question "who?"  Prior to somebody posting about her yesterday I had never heard of her.  That doesn't scream charisma.

The truth is that no female politician can display the combination of strength and warmth which Americans demand from a leader.  The reason being that we refuse to accept that a woman can be both at the same time.

[Verily]

*Sarah Palin - Umm ... she's attractive but nationally she inspires the question "who?"  Prior to somebody posting about her yesterday I had never heard of her.  That doesn't scream charisma.

That means you're looking for someone nationally prominent, not someone charismatic. A state senator can be charismatic. In that case, you might consider Nancy Pelosi (who does have some charisma and is, of course, very prominent), though her problem is really that she represents San Francisco in Congress.

Mostly, it sounds to me as if you are politically ignorant, sticking your fingers in your ears and singing when anyone points out why women are perfectly accepted in politics.

Nita Lowey is another good example; she was considered a likely successor to Clinton had Clinton gone on to win the Presidency.

[AndrewTX]

Name a single American female politician with "charisma".  They do not exist because we do not let them exist.  We always label them as too weak or too manly.  It's just how it is.

Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaska

Sen. Olympia Snowe
Gov. Janet Napolitano
Sen. Amy Klobuchar
Sec. Condoleezza Rice

 The list can still continue to go on and on.

[Verily]

Name a single American female politician with "charisma".  They do not exist because we do not let them exist.  We always label them as too weak or too manly.  It's just how it is.

Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaska

Sen. Olympia Snowe
Gov. Janet Napolitano
Sen. Amy Klobuchar
Sec. Condoleezza Rice

 The list can still continue to go on and on.

To be fair, Rice has never been elected to anything, so her position as "charismatic" is dubious. We've never seen her campaign.

[Wakie]

*Sarah Palin - Umm ... she's attractive but nationally she inspires the question "who?"  Prior to somebody posting about her yesterday I had never heard of her.  That doesn't scream charisma.

That means you're looking for someone nationally prominent, not someone charismatic. A state senator can be charismatic. In that case, you might consider Nancy Pelosi, though her problem is really that she represents San Francisco in Congress than anything else.

Ok, that is fair to say.  I'm arguing that being "charismatic" to voters at the local level is easier than at the state level.  And being "charismatic" at the state level is easier than the national level.  And there is no woman who America will allow to be charismatic at the national level.

Nancy Pelosi may be party boss, but just go back through the posts about her on here.  You will see exactly how charismatic the Atlas Forum believes her to be.

[Verily]

*Sarah Palin - Umm ... she's attractive but nationally she inspires the question "who?"  Prior to somebody posting about her yesterday I had never heard of her.  That doesn't scream charisma.

That means you're looking for someone nationally prominent, not someone charismatic. A state senator can be charismatic. In that case, you might consider Nancy Pelosi, though her problem is really that she represents San Francisco in Congress than anything else.

Nancy Pelosi may be party boss, but just go back through the posts about her on here.  You will see exactly how charismatic the Atlas Forum believes her to be.

Popular, not charismatic. And she's more popular than Harry Reid both here and in general, so good luck attributing it to gender.