Winter 2008 Progressive Primary - Official Thread

[Јas]

There is hardly a record to your claim, as we have never elected a candidate that has less experience than you do now, so Im calling the point moot.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. It wouldn't matter so much if my argument was that Mr. Polnut's record isn't as good as mine. But my argument isn't that it's not as good as mine, my argument is that you have to search long and hard to find any credible Atlasian politican whose record doesn't look good compared to Mr. Polnut. My argument is that if this election was Polnut vs. NOTA, then I think people would have to think long and hard about their decision.

My major issue with Polnut isn't his lack of experience (though I do think that's a serious issue), my major problem is his record as Mideastern Governor. Not the length of his term of office, but what he did with it. In short was the Mideast beter off having elected him?

What was the quality of his legislation?
Importantly, for someone who believes a budget is a necessity for serious governance, what efforts did he make to create one for the Mideast?

What efforts did he make to increase participation in the Mideast?
And if he seriously wanted to see the Mideast bloom, why leave the region?

And what about after his term, when he lost an election and moved to the Northeast?
What has he done since joining the Northeast?
How many initiatives has he put forward or even participated in discussion on?
What is the sum of his contribution?

If Atlasians consider all these things, then they will be in no doubt about what kind of Presidency Mr. Polnut will bring.

If the people feel that Mr. Polnut's record is a moot point, that is their prerogative. I can't do anything if people decide to elect Mr. Polnut - but I can let them know what to expect.

[Speed of Sound]

Ah, I misinterpreted your argument. Yours is a far mre formidable argument than my misinterpretation for sure, though I personally am not too worried when looking back on his record. I find there to be a big difference between what can be done as a governor, especially in the mideast, and what can be done as president. I know that as governor of the midwest, I did  as much as I could, which was practically nothing. I had to make some ridiculous requests just to look active *laughs as he looks back at the Proposition that made ILV Governor for life*. While I find no power in the arguement personally, it is a fair and relevant argument for sure. Thank you for the discussion.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

The Presidential Election is getting heated. Is this the sign of things to come?

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

One of the most regrettable parts of Atlasian politics, so far as I have seen, is that people value partisanship and ideology far more than an ability to do a good job and get things done, especially in positions where partisan and ideology play virtually no part.

The Vice Presidency is such a position.  I have no intention to legislate in my position as VP—in fact, those who are unhappy with my moderate, concilatory style that I bring to the Senate would be very well served having me out of the Senate and into a non-voting organizational position.

When Jas offered me the position of the Vice Presidency, I was quite honored and, within short order, accepted.  I said before the start of the campaign that I was disinterested in running for the Presidency, and this is part of the reason why—a largely unforgiving electorate who would see a moderate (not a conservative, or conservative-leaning moderate, but a pro-gay rights, health care expanding, universal healthcare supporting, pro-choice, progressive tax supporting, minimum wage hiking, openly gay moderate) as "not liberal enough."

I understand that views on the issues are important, and I strongly urge those voting in the Progressive Primary, and indeed the general election as well, to compare and contrast Mr. Polnut and Mr. Jas's experience and positions on the issues.  But unless you believe Mr. Jas or Mr. Polnut will pack up and leave Atlasia in the next four months, please do not do yourself the disservice of believing my positions (or even Sensei/Ebowed's) on the issues will have an effect on the next President's administration, beyond the occasional tie-breaker vote.

I am running for Vice President because I want to help run the day-to-day tasks of the Senate and feel I am the best candidate to do so.  I am a stickler for Constitutional proceedure (as evidenced when I fought Rockefeller Republican's unconstitutional attempt to move up voting on the January Propositions in the Northeast) on Like Jas says, I have been one of the more active Senators during the past 6 months or so of service, and I would greatly cherish the chance to take on the responsibility of making the Senate run as smoothly as possible.

I am NOT running for Vice President because I want to be President.  While I cannot say that, someday, I would like the chance to be President, the Vice Presidency and Presidency could honestly not be more different positions.  This is not a "stepping stone" for me, and as such, I will make the following pledge that it is not.

"If elected to the Vice Presidency, I will not immediately seek the office of President upon the retirement of then-President Jas."

This vote should be about Jas and Polnut.  Not about me.

Thank you.

[Ebowed]

This is the problem with Atlasia.  A candidate can't speak some candid truth without everyone saying they're "disgusted" and shocked and horrified.

It's about time that someone told voters what they don't want to hear.  Have no regrets, Jas.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Er... hello? Um... what's going on here?

[minionofmidas]

write-in SENSEI/JAS or JAS/SENSEI on February 21st!

I for one was planning on doing so anyways... but I had never previously intended to actually campaign for others to do so. I've just changed my mind on that.

[HappyWarrior]

Personally if I was'nt already commited to Polnut I probably would have been convinced by the choice of Mr. Moderate to go over to the Jas campaign.  Moderate is one of my oldest friends in Atlasia and one of the most capable legislators on the site and I see no reason to deny Jas the Vice Presidency based on that choice.

However I am both a supporter and campaign manager of the Polnut ticket and have supported him in every action since my arrival here.  I see this campaign like RL between Clinton and Obama, Jas is Clinton and Polnut is Obama.  They represent change versus experience in that capacity.

[Hatman 🍁]

Results of Super Weekend

Northeast Primary
Polnut - 9 votes; 5 delegates
Jas - 3 votes; 2 delegates

Pacific Primary
Keystone Phil - 5 votes; 4 delegates
Polnut - 3 votes; 2 delegates

Totals so far:
Polnut - 9 delegates
Jas - 4 delegates
Keystone Phil - 4 delegates
TBD - 1 delegate

[Colin]

This is the problem with Atlasia.  A candidate can't speak some candid truth without everyone saying they're "disgusted" and shocked and horrified.

It's about time that someone told voters what they don't want to hear.  Have no regrets, Jas.

I have to completely agree Porce. All the things that have been stated by both Mr. Bell and Vice President Jas are completely and utterly the truth. Some people cannot see that former Governor Polnut does not have a credible record to be the President of this nation, period. His record as Mideast Governor was mediocre at best and he has always shown himself to be, at best, disinterested with most of Atlasian affairs outside of elections. These aren't attacks if they're true. This is not disgusting if the statements are backed up by fact and are corraborated by his former constituents like the honorable Peter Bell, the man who is basically responsible for the legal system that constitute this nation.

While debating the merits of VP picks and making overtures to different political factions is a constant part of any election what truly disturbs me is the amount of disgust that is being aimed at what are true statements. Several people who I have previously held in high regard have disappointed me in their actions concerning this election and seeing "disgusting attacks" anytime anyone shows the facts of a person's record to the Atlasian public. I would know what "disgusting attacks" in Atlasia are, I helped fight against the AFDNC machine in the Northeast during my earlier years here in campaigns that gave us avatar voting and GirlGoneWild. I can't see how we can even have a campaign if you cannot bring up your opponents record. Why don't we just role a die to see who wins, in that case, because it would have as much basis on the merits of the candidate as an election without actual campaigning.

I'm sure I will be attacked for this, I don't care, the Presidency will likely be my last position in Atlasia for a while, at least until I get bored again. I will say that seeing a deserving man like Jas lose to Polnut in the general election would be one of the most devastating blows to this nation, and would be up there with Nym's loss to Gustaf, Naso's Senate win, and the disaster of the Siege presidency.

[minionofmidas]

I rolled a 5. What does that mean now?

[Hatman 🍁]

I rolled a 5. What does that mean now?

I think that makes you an elf or something.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I rolled a 5. What does that mean now?

You failed your saving throw vs. enchantment and will now be enamoured by GPorter for 2d4 turns.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I rolled a 5. What does that mean now?

You failed your saving throw vs. enchantment and will now be enamoured by GPorter for 2d4 turns.

Funnily enough, according to his rules, that's what happens on every even number

[Colin]

I rolled a 5. What does that mean now?

You failed your saving throw vs. enchantment and will now be enamoured by GPorter for 2d4 turns.

Actually its 2d6 since GPorter has the Arcane Political Knowledge skill.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I rolled a 5. What does that mean now?

You failed your saving throw vs. enchantment and will now be enamoured by GPorter for 2d4 turns.

Funnily enough, according to his rules, that's what happens on every even number

... and odd too.

I rolled a 5. What does that mean now?

You failed your saving throw vs. enchantment and will now be enamoured by GPorter for 2d4 turns.

Actually its 2d6 since GPorter has the Arcane Political Knowledge skill.

Well his political knowledge is certainly Arcane.

[War on Want]

yay Polnut!!! I don't much about u but I voted for you!

[Ebowed]

I don't much about u

That does seem to be the base of his support.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

It's amazing to think all of this spite has come out all at once. Why?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's amazing to think all of this spite has come out all at once. Why?

Because this is fantasyland and these things happen. It's been worse before and it may get worse before this election is over.

[Colin]

It's amazing to think all of this spite has come out all at once. Why?

Why are you asking this? Do you think we coordinated this, in some virtual version of a smoke filled room, with all the members of the Forum Elite gathering together to re-assert their strength? I've held these feelings to myself for a very long time but I have always believed them as have many of the other forum members who have commented on the Polnut candidacy.

To Al what I have to say is that this is politics even if its a virtual version that has no bearing on reality when you are competing for a position the knives will eventually come out dogs of war are let loose.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

To Al what I have to say is that this is politics even if its a virtual version that has no bearing on reality when you are competing for a position the knives will eventually come out dogs of war are let loose.

Actually I would say that Atlasia has often been, in its own small way, much more vicious than real life politics (usually) is. Thinking of Kissinger's remark about student politics being so bitter because the stakes are so small.

[minionofmidas]

To Al what I have to say is that this is politics even if its a virtual version that has no bearing on reality when you are competing for a position the knives will eventually come out dogs of war are let loose.

Actually I would say that Atlasia has often been, in its own small way, much more vicious than real life politics (usually) is. Thinking of Kissinger's remark about student politics being so bitter because the stakes are so small.

Fighting over scraps, eh?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

To Al what I have to say is that this is politics even if its a virtual version that has no bearing on reality when you are competing for a position the knives will eventually come out dogs of war are let loose.

Actually I would say that Atlasia has often been, in its own small way, much more vicious than real life politics (usually) is. Thinking of Kissinger's remark about student politics being so bitter because the stakes are so small.

Fighting over scraps, eh?

Haha, no comment

[Colin]

To Al what I have to say is that this is politics even if its a virtual version that has no bearing on reality when you are competing for a position the knives will eventually come out dogs of war are let loose.

Actually I would say that Atlasia has often been, in its own small way, much more vicious than real life politics (usually) is. Thinking of Kissinger's remark about student politics being so bitter because the stakes are so small.

Interesting, probably an accurate observation though maybe its because things get personal so easily among a small grouping of people. Also with a smaller group you are likely to know your opponent and the voters better, in a friendly manner, so it feels more sadistic when the attacks begin.