Two really bad things to lose in the post

[Silent Hunter]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7103566.stm

What happened there?

[Democratic Hawk]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7103566.stm

What happened there?

Seemingly, one almighty cock-up. Who in the blue hell sends this kind of thing by normal post?

The government had better hope for that nothing untoward comes of this lost data

On top of the possibility of taxpayers being faced with a huge bill resulting from the Northern Rock crisis:(. A wretched week and only's Tuesday

If the Tories don't come out of this week with a double-digit lead in the polls, I'll be amazed

Dave

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That HMRC is collectively incompetent isn't really news. This is unusually bad, but I'm not surprised.

[Democratic Hawk]

That HMRC is collectively incompetent isn't really news. This is unusually bad, but I'm not surprised.

It's the consequences I'm most concerned about

Dave

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That HMRC is collectively incompetent isn't really news. This is unusually bad, but I'm not surprised.

It's the consequences I'm most concerned about

Dave

Actual consequences or political ones? Don't think that the actual consequences will be that serious for a couple of reasons. One consequence may be reorganising HMRC, which would be a good thing IMO.

Political ones... well Darling's career will take a knock even though this doesn't seem to be his fault (but that's just the way British politics works. One of its more unpleasant elements IMO, but things have been like that since ever). Won't have any real effect on the result of the next General Election (though if Labour loses, ignorant people (journalists for instance) will probably put it down in part to this) as this sort of thing never does. No idea about short-term effects (poll leads and so on), but then I don't care much about that sort of thing anymore.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Missed an obvious one; this probably means the end of ID cards, at least in the form that they're planned at the moment. Something like that can't get through without public trust in the administration of it (something likely to be somewhat lacking after today's events).

I could, of course, be wrong, but if not I wouldn't expect the idea to be publically scrapped just yet, but sometime next year. March or April seeming like likely months.

[Joe Republic]

Harry B/Tuttle had better watch out.

[Gabu]

That HMRC is collectively incompetent isn't really news. This is unusually bad, but I'm not surprised.

"This message will self destruct in three or four days, so use Royal Mail to make sure it goes nowhere."

- Greg Proops, Whose Line Is It Anyway

[Erc]

Harry B/Tuttle had better watch out.

Well, if they can't even get the 27B/6 forms through, I don't think he has much to worry about.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

"This message will self destruct in three or four days, so use Royal Mail to make sure it goes nowhere."

- Greg Proops, Whose Line Is It Anyway

I admit it. I laughed.

(even though Royal Mail weren't actually involved in this at any stage).

[Democratic Hawk]

Missed an obvious one; this probably means the end of ID cards, at least in the form that they're planned at the moment. Something like that can't get through without public trust in the administration of it (something likely to be somewhat lacking after today's events).

I could, of course, be wrong, but if not I wouldn't expect the idea to be publically scrapped just yet, but sometime next year. March or April seeming like likely months.

I've never had an issue with ID cards per se, but I do, all things considered, have strong reservations about the cost of them. My concern is that the cost will not be offset by the benefit of having them

Dave

[afleitch]

Not good.

And the very affable head of HMR&C walked as all good chiefs should.

I agree it will probably bury or postpone ID cards which can only be a good thing. ID cards, we are told are 'good' but for what we've yet to be told. At first it was terrorism, until 7/7 when if ID cards were in place we'd simply have found a bit of singed plastic and identified the guys 10 minutes quicker than conventional methods. Unless, being terrorists and all they simply left them at home. Then it was benefit fraud (rather apt) until they were informed most benefit fraud involves people claiming under their own name. Then it was easier travel to EU nations and internal travel....until they introduced the 80 question test before you can nip across to Calais.

What happened yesterday allows the government to quietly drop ID cards and save face. They should take that opportunity.

[afleitch]

Things could get worse.

Three things hovering about right now.

- There have been over 2000 breaches of the Data Protection Act at HMRC in the past year.
- Ministers were advised to urgently review procedure but 'ignored' the warnings.
- It wasn't an office worker who bungled - it was someone at management level; ie someone who had access to the system.

The 3rd one is probably true. As a civil servant myself you have to head into B3 grade before you have that sort of access level. Thats beyond the reach of the office worker.

[Michael Z]

In a way, this entire affair is reflective of the way most public bodies, be they civil service bodies or institutions which may be privately owned but still purporting a service to the public (eg. electricity suppliers, et al), have deteriorated in recent years, mainly by developing a culture of mismanagement, greed, cutting corners, incompetence and indifference (bordering on downright contempt) for the public in recent years. You could say this debacle is almost a culmination of all this, perhaps even the logical conclusion. It was bound to happen sooner or later and doesn't surprise me in the least.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

One of the odd things about this is how long it apparently took for senior management to find out. Beyond the obvious, that's the one thing about this that's worried me. No. Worried is the wrong word. Concerned maybe? But that seems almost to be going too far in the other direction.

That... probably made no sense. Need sleep now.

- Ministers were advised to urgently review procedure but 'ignored' the warnings.

A claim along those general lines seems to get made every time a cock-up in the civil service  comes to light. For obvious reasons (X not reviewing procedure or whatever doesn't mean that Y is not to blame when Y does something far worse than could "normally" be expected) it isn't exactly the best excuse in the world, but it helps to spread the blame, or at least the impression of blame, around a bit; which presumably is the idea.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

by developing a culture of mismanagement, greed, cutting corners, incompetence and indifference (bordering on downright contempt) for the public in recent years.

With the exception of some of the privatised utilities and the like, greed isn't really fair; many things can be said about the civil service, but it isn't corrupt.

I'm also not sure if it's a recent change, if it's a change at all. Always possible that we just know more now; much harder to cover up things properly these days. something like that. can't think of examples at the moment, eenven though i know them. damn.

post above might read wrong. apologies to anyone misfortunate to read it. idiot writing it should go to bed and sleep. now.

[Хahar 🤔]

Wow. Sometimes I'm inexpliably glad *gasp* that I live in the United States.

[Michael Z]

by developing a culture of mismanagement, greed, cutting corners, incompetence and indifference (bordering on downright contempt) for the public in recent years.

With the exception of some of the privatised utilities and the like, greed isn't really fair; many things can be said about the civil service, but it isn't corrupt.

I'm also not sure if it's a recent change, if it's a change at all. Always possible that we just know more now; much harder to cover up things properly these days. something like that. can't think of examples at the moment, eenven though i know them. damn.

I was more thinking about stuff like, say, BT claiming that broadband installation is free and then suddenly charging you £62.00 for it. Not that I have an axe to grind or anything... <grrrr>  In other words, I was thinking more about public bodies in general and the kind of indifference with which they seem to treat the public these days, which to me is a relatively new phenomenon, especially with regards to the way no-one seems to want to take responsibility anymore. I'm sure everyone has had some kind of run-in with, say, their council or the Inland Revenue making a hash of things and then not taking responbility for it. (No idea if this makes any sense or not.)

[Gabu]

"This message will self destruct in three or four days, so use Royal Mail to make sure it goes nowhere."

- Greg Proops, Whose Line Is It Anyway

I admit it. I laughed.

(even though Royal Mail weren't actually involved in this at any stage).

It's the closest thing I could come up with that actually seemed passably relevant.

[Silent Hunter]

Six discs with audio recordings on have gone missing...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Six discs with audio recordings on have gone missing...

By the sound of it not nearly as serious as the earlier mess, but even so... I think that this: is the correct response.

Oh, and TNT seem to have been the courier company in this case as well. This could be thought of as being somewhat "interesting" as earlier in the day it was revealed that the main area being searched for the discs at present are various TNT depots.

Jumping to conclusions would be a mistake though.