Mexico?

[TommyC1776]

Do Mexican citizens vote for president or does the Congress vote?

[ThePrezMex]

We have always voted directly to elect the President.
Whoever wins the popular vote wins the election, doesn't need an absolute majority.
In 2000, Vicente Fox from the National Action Party (PAN) won the presidency with 42.5% of the vote, against Francisco Labastida of the until then ruling Institutal Revolutionary Party (PRI) who got 36.1% and Cuauhtemoc Cardenas of the leftist Democratic Revolution Party (PRD) with 16.6%. Smaller parties got the rest.
New elections in July 2006. No reelection.

[cwelsch]

Countrywide first-past-the-post popular vote, I believe.

[TommyC1776]

What are the states a Mexican presidential candidate really needs to win to win the election?

[ThePrezMex]

Well, basically you need to concentrate in the big, highly populated states. Small states have very little importance, although in a close election every vote counts.

In 2000, President Fox won 20 out of 32 states. Labastida won 11 and Cardenas won 1 (his homestate of Michoacan).

The largest states are: Mexico, Federal District, Veracruz, Jalisco, Guanajuato, Puebla, Nuevo Leon and Michoacan. Those 8 states have 55% of the votes.

[angus]

And you can't ing buy beer on election day in the whole country!  Well, you can, but it isn't legal, so you have to pay California prices for a beer in Mexico if you have the misfortune to show up on election day.  I was in Cabo San Lucas last July 5 and 6.  Had to get booze at outrageous prices on the black market.  what a ripoff!  At least their weed and coke prices remained stable during that period.  

[ThePrezMex]

LOL
Yes, elections are dry. They allowed selling alcohol in Mexico City in 2000, but changed it back again in 2003.
Also, elections are always on a Sunday (I guess most european countries vote on Sundays also?).

[angus]

BCS = PAN country, verdad?  

the rest of the country seems more comfortable with a larger role for government than most US folks do.  Then there's that contrary doctor from the DF.  Nobody knows what he stands for.  Kind of like Bill Clinton.  Or me.  My guess is that he's good at walking the thin line between class warfare and keeeping the wealthy economic engines greased.  Not unlike the DLC, or what you might call a Rockefeller REpublican.  

You mexican?  I often say that's my favorite country in the world, next to my own.  I've been to 21 of the estados, so far, and my favorite remains Chiapas, leftism be damned.  Actually, in mexico it all makes sense.  I can understand impoverished chiapans voting Left, and displaced californians voting pan.  Here it's all weird, what with Mississippians voting for the GOP and Connecticut Yankees voting for Democrats.  But it's only confusing till you realize that the Democrats aren't really "liberal" and the GOP isn't really "conservative."  In that sense, the Mexicans are like the English and the Germans and everyone else.  It is we who have divided along some pretty bizarre lines, wouldn't you agree?

[ThePrezMex]

ok.. in order:

No, BC = PAN (They have won the governorship 3 straight times and Fox won there by 13 points, although it seems that yesterday the PRI won back the city of Tijuana in a very close election).
BCS has a governor from the leftist PRD, but the state is basically split evenly between the 3 major parties. In the 2000 presidential election, Fox got 36.8%, Labastida (PRI) 34% and the PRD 27.3%. BCS is very small in terms of population.

I agree with the comment about the perception of the role of the government. You could say, in a generalization, that the northern states prefer a more limited government and that the contrary happens in the south, just as you pointed out. I could say that northern states are more "republican" and southern more "democratic".

Then you have very different things in the central region. For example, the state of Guanajuato, homestate of President Fox could be compared to the Carolinas - very socially conservative, with big industrial and trade cities like Leon and also a strong rural area. You have the most populated state: Mexico, which surrounds the Federal District. Fox won there by a huge margin, 12%, but the PRI maintains the governorship, and the PRD is very strong in some areas; you could picture that state as being a gigantic New Jersey + a section like affluent, conservative VA suburbs + east LA + a rural area all into one state that in terms of population would be the Mexican equivalent of California. (don't know if that made sense).

In Mexico City (The Federal District or DF) the mayor is from the leftist PRD although he's from the southern state of Tabasco, with a thick accent from there that makes him subject of frequent impersonations from comedians. The PRD governs Mexico City since 1997. There's no way in which the PRI can win there again in the foreseeable future. The mayor, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, is a populist, kind of light charm and funny, powermaniac, very smart and yet delirious man who is right now the front runner in the presidential race. Pic of him:


Wow.. to 21 states? I think you've been to more states than me... well, the same, I just counted.

[minionofmidas]

BCS = PAN country, verdad?  

the rest of the country seems more comfortable with a larger role for government than most US folks do.  Then there's that contrary doctor from the DF.  Nobody knows what he stands for.  Kind of like Bill Clinton.  Or me.  My guess is that he's good at walking the thin line between class warfare and keeeping the wealthy economic engines greased.  Not unlike the DLC, or what you might call a Rockefeller REpublican.  

You mexican?  I often say that's my favorite country in the world, next to my own.  I've been to 21 of the estados, so far, and my favorite remains Chiapas, leftism be damned.  Actually, in mexico it all makes sense.  I can understand impoverished chiapans voting Left, and displaced californians voting pan.  Here it's all weird, what with Mississippians voting for the GOP and Connecticut Yankees voting for Democrats.  But it's only confusing till you realize that the Democrats aren't really "liberal" and the GOP isn't really "conservative."  In that sense, the Mexicans are like the English and the Germans and everyone else.  It is we who have divided along some pretty bizarre lines, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, I would...although we Germans got some pretty odd divisions too.
Angus is back!

[angus]

then I was wrong.  but I've only been to 3 of the Landen in your country.  Actually we're mostly German here, not like the Aussies and Cannucks and Kiwis.  Goddamned Anglophiles there.  Not like us.  Maybe Berlin one day...  I do own lots of Black Clothes.  Did you change your name, by the way?  and your color?

okay, BC not BCS.  I do remember asking lots of locals for whom (or what party) they voted.  As I recall, the third party had a certain pro-business appeal in that part of the country.  I used to lament having two parties, till I met folks from Egypt and China, the oldest civilizations, who have only one.  Now I realize we ain't got it so bad.  Then, at the other end of the scale, you have the italians.  At least the Good Guys are in charge there.  Could be worse.  Like Germany.    And Mexico.    No shortage of Volkswagens in Mexico, by the way.  That Hapsburg influence goes a long way.  Note all the "Calidad Aleman" signs on garages in the DF.

What I'm learning is that partisan loyalty in Mexico, like partisan loyalty here, is dying.  That's a good thing, don't you think?  70 years of one-party rule has had the same effect on Mexico's economy as 80 years of one-party rule has had on Russia's economy.  Democrats don't look so bad next to those guys.  Neither do Republicans.  Actually, from what I read in my daily dose of Right Wing propaganda is that we're not too concerned with Mexico, as they've nowhere to go but up.  (yes, I think PEMEX was a mistake.)  It's our neighbors to the South that we're concerned with, what with the retaliatory remarks from Brazil (again, turnabout is fair play), and that embarassing and impolitic public support for the hooligans who wanted to oust Chavez in Venezuela.  

But then the thread is about Mexico.  Mexico, like the US and France, is classified by the UN as a "multiparty republic".  It's one of their eight forms of government.   That's what makes us, at least on paper, more like Mexico and France than like, say, Germany and Canada and England and Japan.  They're best suited for collecting statistics, and they do that well, not for maintaining peace, which they do not do well.  Might as well use some of their data (which we pay for) once in a while.  Mexico chooses its president and its congress separately.  As do we.  The Fox-Congress relationship is not unlike the Clinton-Congress relationship was.  Totally different that the Blair-Commons or the Schroeder-Parliament relationship.  Just to answer the question.

I have one of my own.  Was Fox an anomaly?  Unlike Bush, he was a successful businessman.  But still a businessman.  And a member of PAN.  His election was played up by US news media outlets as a "change of tide" in Mexican politics.  Do they see a more limited role for govt than they did in the past?  Is this evidence of a true Mexican nationalism forming?  Are the maqiulladoras affecting the polls?  Or is it just the tail-end of the world Clintonista legacy of electing economically conservative leaders?  Or is it an experiment?  Or is this such an anglocentric world view that it has no reasonably accurate translation into latinoamericano politics?  (like asking how does an electron get from one lobe of a px orbital into another lobe, even though they're separated by a node of zero-probability?)

[TommyC1776]

What does BCS=PAN mean?

[ThePrezMex]

What does BCS=PAN mean?

BCS is the state of Baja California Sur
BC is Baja California

PAN is the National Action Party of President Fox.

I would like to post some maps.. but don't know where to find Mexico maps with the state divisions to paint them and post them.

[angus]

in some fantasy thread, someone (harry maybe?  I forget.) put up a map of all of North america.  A few months ago.  Maybe it has evolved into a Western Hemisphere map by now, with colors for (predicted or legendary) party control, etc.  Find out where he got that map.  

In the meantime, here are some "maps" of mexico that I use for other purposes.  You may find them interesting or useful:

http://www.maps-of-mexico.com/ (excellent highway maps)
http://math.ucr.edu/ftm/baja.htm (BC & BCS general info)
http://www.supermapa.com (highway map generator)
http://www.trace-sc.com/ (The Mexico Channel, good tourist information in English about govt, climate, etc.)
http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/photo.html#maps (incomplete but user-friendly collection of data and maps)
http://members.aol.com/felixhinz/PAGE2.html (some dead German guy's 500 year-old maps of Tenochtitlan, very cool.)

[ThePrezMex]

Thanks.
I wanted a plain Mexico map with its states division, just like the one we use here of the United States in order to pain the states by party colors.
So I didn't need to refer to this one from the Federal Electoral Institute:

[TommyC1776]

Is there any particular channel that devotes itself on Mexican issues?

[ThePrezMex]

Is there any particular channel that devotes itself on Mexican issues?

That's exactly what I want to do. Something like this site but for Mexico.

[TommyC1776]

That's exactly what I want to do. Something like this site but for Mexico.

ok cool

[angus]

There are some, in Spanish, but I have found none in English.  You can find blogs about Mexican politics in English though.  I have a reporter friend in DF who may be able to tell me whether there are any.  She can't say the word "Fox" without hissing and spitting.  I'll email her and try to find out.

By the way, I liked Camejo in 2002 when he ran for governor, but by the time the special election came around in October 2003 he was nothing more than an apologist for the Davis Administration who began flipping from Green to California Democrat, like Davis (very conservative, like Clinton, but without the winning personality and cool exotic accent of a Southern Democrat.)  At some point, you gotta wonder if he stands for anything other than whatever the Sierra Club's flavor of the week is.  Good thing VP choices don't really matter.

[ThePrezMex]

Hey, I didn't understand what Camejo has to do with Mexico? Were you trying to reply to a posting in another thread at the same time?

[angus]

this is a bad habit of mine.  MarkDel calls it Joycean writing.  Yeah, I just noticed the signature line of KucinichforPrez and commented on it.  Very inappropriate, given that it has nothing to do with the original thread.  Only point was that Camejo was a major attack-dog biting at Davis in November 2002, yet somehow evolved into a Davis lap-dog over the following 12 months.  You gotta wonder how anyone can pay lip-service to both sides and come out smelling like a rose.

Let me know if you turn up any sites like this one about Mexico, in English.  I'll do the same.  I haven't learned about any yet though.  I've noticed that this site gets restructured whenever interests and demographics dictate.  Dave Liep seems to stay on top of that sort of thing.  If enough Mexico pops up under International, Mexico may get it's own little forum.  Not sure though.  Most foreigners who post here are from Western Europe or those bits of Western European pockets of influence around the world (e.g., Canada and Australia), and that most Americans aren't interested in American politics, much less foreign politics, it may not be likely that such interest would materialize.  Still, you have a fairly interested and well-informed bunch that posts here.  I think we're seeing an interest in Mexican politics primarily due to the elections.  But this is likely to wane over the coming months.

[minionofmidas]

then I was wrong.  but I've only been to 3 of the Landen in your country.  

Länder.

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Yeah, I've come across this cliché a few times before...

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As this is "other", I thought that change was in order. The name change is just a joke related to the Pawns of Power RPG. I'll probably go back to Lewis in a week or so.

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Yeah, they continued making Beetles there into the '90s!

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So what are we? We also got multiple parties and a Republic! (Unlike Canada and England and Japan, btw.) But yes, you are more like Mexico and France than like Canada and the UK, I'd have to agree there...

Oh, but back to my comment on our party loyalties...Class does play a role in Germany. So does religion (Catholics tend to vote CDU/CSU, Protestants SPD, irreligious people third party), region, and -you don't have this one in America- generation. For example, in the European elections (which went extremely well for the Greens) in Frankfurt (a Green stronghold), we were the strongest party in all age groups under 60, but got about 5% among those over 60.

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[ThePrezMex]

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Yeah, they continued making Beetles there into the '90s!

The last one was produced last year!! they have a special edition to commerate it.

[angus]

Lewis, thanks for correcting my German.  I tried very hard to find something to correct in your English, but couldn't.  What you have, unlike US, France, and Mexico, is a weak President.  You have a strong BundesKanzler (sp?) instead.  For whatever reason, the CIA factbook (www.cia.gov) lists Germany as a Federal Republic, not just a Republic like the others.  I really don't know what formal differences there may be.  Japan and England are, of course, Constitutional Monarchies.  Canada is a democracy.  There are some really nifty governmental forms in the near east, like aristocracies and such.  Very medieval.  

The US media (ABC, CNN, Fox, etc) often reports that Gerhard, a rabid anti-US bigmough, rose to power on a wave of anti-US sentiment which started in the 80s under the Reagan Administration ("We begin bombing in five minutes.")  Never having heard anyone contradict that, I believe it.  Funny still, as in all my trips to Germany, I was never the victim of outright bigotry.  But then I usually hung out with a fairly well-educated white-collar crowd of Germans.  On the other hand, that's the demographic of Eurotrash most often accused of abject anti-Americanism.  Either our newschannels are feeding us Baloney, or everyone just waited till I was out of the room to start talking nasty about Reagan and Bush.  What do you think?

[minionofmidas]

Your newsmedia are feeding you baloney.