France General Discussion

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The most recent poll is from BVA.

Gah.

Anyways, polls are never perfect, especially not these where the pollsters can toy around with the question a lot. People should stop citing them as proof for life on earth.

No matter the relevance of differences between such 2 polls, outside of what they can say, what is important is also the fact that what they say is aired and can have an influence.

[Hash]

OpinionWay has released a poll for the presidential election (lol). They really want to be a joke pollster, don't they. I think it's an interwebs poll, too lol.

Sarkozy 30%
Royal 21%
Bayrou 20%
Besancenot 9%
Le Pen 7%
de Villiers 4%
Voynet 3%
Buffet 2%
Laguiller 2%
Bove 1%
Nihous 0.5%
Schivardi 0.5%

Full crap poll: http://www.lefigaro.fr/assets/pdf/politoscope-2mai.pdf

Swine flu seems to worry right-wingers more: 83% talked about it, while 76% of lefties talked about it

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The problem with OpinionWay is that they really seem to be a Sarkozist pollster. The fact they are here with Le Figaro and LCI goes in that sens. What do you mean by interwebs? Polls where anybody can vote, like they do on 20h on France2 each week?

Personally, a poll that would interest me before the eventual candidates' results, is:

Would you like some presidential elections being held soon?

And, their poll tends to be particularly stupid in the sens that they deliberatively choose Royal for PS, something way not sure.

That said, considering it could be a Sarkozist poll, it's interesting to note that the left wins... I put Bayrou on the left, obviously.

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The problem with OpinionWay is that they really seem to be a Sarkozist pollster. The fact they are here with Le Figaro and LCI goes in that sens. What do you mean by interwebs? Polls where anybody can vote, like they do on 20h on France2 each week?

Personally, a poll that would interest me before the eventual candidates' results, is:

Would you like some presidential elections being held soon?

And, their poll tends to be particularly stupid in the sens that they deliberatively choose Royal for PS, something way not sure.

That said, considering it could be a Sarkozist poll, it's interesting to note that the left wins... I put Bayrou on the left, obviously.

OpinionWay's problem is not that they're a "Sarkozyste" pollster, since their results don't show huge differences with reliable pollsters, but mostly since they're a crap pollster who polls useless stuff. And that they poll on the interwebs, and not in the traditional people-on-the-street or telephone polls.

I mean, they could poll the EU elections or something instead of doing "what are you talking about nowadays?" and presidential election polling that is flawed to begin with.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

I mean, they could poll the EU elections or something instead of doing "what are you talking about nowadays?" and presidential election polling that is flawed to begin with.

Maybe that's to distract attention from European elections. I don't know. Anyway, no matter who they are, sarkozist or not, I didn't really learn something interesting with that poll.

That said, when we read their methodology they sound serious, and not less fallible than those who do that by phone. I've already been polled by phone, and by one of those you like (was Ipsos or Ifop), and I could have lied the hell what I wanted concerning my identity.

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I mean, they could poll the EU elections or something instead of doing "what are you talking about nowadays?" and presidential election polling that is flawed to begin with.

Maybe that's to distract attention from European elections. I don't know. Anyway, no matter who they are, sarkozist or not, I didn't really learn something interesting with that poll.

Why would they want to distract attention from the EU elections?

That said, when we read their methodology they sound serious, and not less fallible than those who do that by phone. I've already been polled by phone, and by one of those you like (was Ipsos or Ifop), and I could have lied the hell what I wanted concerning my identity.

You can certainly lie on the interwebs too, you know. Internetz polls are always worse than phone polls. Look at Zogby Interactive.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

I mean, they could poll the EU elections or something instead of doing "what are you talking about nowadays?" and presidential election polling that is flawed to begin with.

Maybe that's to distract attention from European elections. I don't know. Anyway, no matter who they are, sarkozist or not, I didn't really learn something interesting with that poll.

Why would they want to distract attention from the EU elections?

I said that in the sens it would be better for the sarkozist poll they are to distract people attention from this elections, because results might not be good. But maybe that's a stupid supposition, and I frankly don't really care about their purpose and if are actually or not sarkozist. The main point is that I find their poll is not interesting.

That said, when we read their methodology they sound serious, and not less fallible than those who do that by phone. I've already been polled by phone, and by one of those you like (was Ipsos or Ifop), and I could have lied the hell what I wanted concerning my identity.

You can certainly lie on the interwebs too, you know. Internetz polls are always worse than phone polls. Look at Zogby Interactive.

Yes, yes, we can lie on both, that's why I don't see the inferiority of interwebs poll, I've tried some for consumptions surveys, just to see how it happens, well, frankly the only difference is that you don't give your identity and answers by voice but by typing.

The shame would be they use polls like the 20h on France2 uses each week, or a lot of other websites do, because here they don't ask identity. On the other hand these other kind of poll are less rigorous but they have the advantage to earn far more votes than normal polls.

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Les Info's ranking of MP's activity in the Assembly, from least active to most active.

http://www.philippe-folliot.com/images/PDF/activitesdeputes.pdf

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Les Info's ranking of MP's activity in the Assembly, from least active to most active.

http://www.philippe-folliot.com/images/PDF/activitesdeputes.pdf

Yes, yes, I know that, and be sure Phillipe Folliot didn't forget to signal us he was in the most active in his newsletter!

That said, and as he said in this same newsletter too, this classification is just a kind of image, it doesn't take in count all the aspects of the deputation, on "C dans l'air" on France5, you might know, they made a report on the guy who was the last but one of this classification, and the guy clearly shew he made important things for his job of deputy.

Personally, that is one of the big problem of this assembly to me, I would like full time job deputy, and it suits with my other claim which would be a proportional assembly.

I would prefer that what we have as national assembly became our senate, with a bit of more power than the current senate, and that the national assembly was fully proportional, and keeping the presidential elections.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Les Info's ranking of MP's activity in the Assembly, from least active to most active.

http://www.philippe-folliot.com/images/PDF/activitesdeputes.pdf

Damn, after having watching the classification, I seem him 538th, hell, that's not what he told us in the newsletter IIRC. I've to find this back.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

I've effectively found it back, and he effectively tells us he is 39th on that same list from "lesinfos.com". Damn.

[Hash]

Les Info's ranking of MP's activity in the Assembly, from least active to most active.

http://www.philippe-folliot.com/images/PDF/activitesdeputes.pdf

Damn, after having watching the classification, I seem him 538th, hell, that's not what he told us in the newsletter IIRC. I've to find this back.

The ranking is actually from least active to most active. 538th means 40th most active. 577th means 1st most active. And 1 is least active.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

I've been too fast. Thanks.

That said, weird way of classification.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's easy for Chirac to be seen as a great president now we can see what is Sarkozy as president.

Plus, "c'était mieux avant..." (for translation, in France the sentence is used to express the fact that the situation was always better in the past).

Yes. I personally find it a bit ridiculous how Chirac is overestimated. They just forgot that he was a liar and a corrupt, though Sarkozy is even worse...

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

It's easy for Chirac to be seen as a great president now we can see what is Sarkozy as president.

Plus, "c'était mieux avant..." (for translation, in France the sentence is used to express the fact that the situation was always better in the past).

Yes. I personally find it a bit ridiculous how Chirac is overestimated. They just forgot that he was a liar and a corrupt, though Sarkozy is even worse...

Ow, he wasn't only that. Plus that was more symptomatic of an epoch in which both sides were involved, you might know PS had its lot of corrupt.

Chirac was kinda awful at home, but concerning foreign policy, he was one of the best if not the best of his time.

Plus, it seems to be a guy of quality. And comparing personalities, values, I prefer Chirac way than Sarkozy.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's easy for Chirac to be seen as a great president now we can see what is Sarkozy as president.

Plus, "c'était mieux avant..." (for translation, in France the sentence is used to express the fact that the situation was always better in the past).

Yes. I personally find it a bit ridiculous how Chirac is overestimated. They just forgot that he was a liar and a corrupt, though Sarkozy is even worse...

Ow, he wasn't only that. Plus that was more symptomatic of an epoch in which both sides were involved, you might know PS had its lot of corrupt.

Chirac was kinda awful at home, but concerning foreign policy, he was one of the best if not the best of his time.

Plus, it seems to be a guy of quality. And comparing personalities, values, I prefer Chirac way than Sarkozy.

That's sure. But I refuse to appreciate Chirac ( who had certainly a lot of qualities ) only because he is a fantastic politician compared with Sarko.

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All Presidents since 1981 have been epic fails, with some redeeming qualities.

[Antonio the Sixth]

All Presidents since 1981 have been epic fails, with some redeeming qualities.

Mitterrand was not a Saint, but he was certainly a great President.

[big bad fab]

All Presidents since 1981 have been epic fails, with some redeeming qualities.

Mitterrand was not a Saint, but he was certainly a great President.

You mustn't be very old...
He was a great politician, sure. Not a great president.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

He was a great politician, sure. Not a great president.

He had clearly the size for the chair, and he passed strong things.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Had Mitterrand cheated in every election, had he did a French watergate, I would still admire him for having been the only french politician who had the courage to abolish death penalty.
But, furthermore, he perfectly incarned the "force tranquille" he promised : able to lead great social reforms, but also resolutely pro-American and pro-European, he was a very cultivated man, and intelligent in every sense of the word.

[Hash]

Had Mitterrand cheated in every election, had he did a French watergate, I would still admire him for having been the only french politician who had the courage to abolish death penalty.
But, furthermore, he perfectly incarned the "force tranquille" he promised : able to lead great social reforms, but also resolutely pro-American and pro-European, he was a very cultivated man, and intelligent in every sense of the word.

He was also a crook.

[MaxQue]

Had Mitterrand cheated in every election, had he did a French watergate, I would still admire him for having been the only french politician who had the courage to abolish death penalty.
But, furthermore, he perfectly incarned the "force tranquille" he promised : able to lead great social reforms, but also resolutely pro-American and pro-European, he was a very cultivated man, and intelligent in every sense of the word.

He was also a crook.

Which French politician isn't a crook?

[big bad fab]

Had Mitterrand cheated in every election, had he did a French watergate, I would still admire him for having been the only french politician who had the courage to abolish death penalty.
But, furthermore, he perfectly incarned the "force tranquille" he promised : able to lead great social reforms, but also resolutely pro-American and pro-European, he was a very cultivated man, and intelligent in every sense of the word.

Giscard (whom I don't like for other reasons) led far greater "social" reforms.
Mitterrand, as Giscard and Chirac, was unable to trim health and pensions costs. He recruited many civil servants (I'm one of them...) who are a heavy financial burden now.
As Giscard, he broke down the education system, by dropping emulation and republican elitism.
He practiced the old "Françafrique" policy (as every president).
He had many corrupted friends (Pelat, Grossouvre, who committed suicide inside the walls of Elysée palace).
He supported (with John Major) Serbian regime, which was a real shame on France and UK.

Mitterrand of course had good points: "décentralisation" (devolution of some powers to local councils), a pro-American foreign policy during the Cold War and in the Gulf, a decisive boost of Euroepan integration (with Kohl and Delors).
But they are far overweighted by bad points.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

But they are far overweighted by bad points.

The most you reproach to Mitterand is part of French political traditions, then you didn't like the most he did doesn't mean it was bad, you just didn't like it. For you the glass is more empty than full, for others it's the opposite.