How Labour have implemented the 2005 Conservative Mainfesto

[afleitch]

Coming next (if I have the time!) How Labour have not implimented their own 2005 manifesto.

Pensions

''A Conservative government will increase the basic state pension in line with earnings rather than prices, reversing the spread of means testing.'' Conservative Manifesto 2005.

Too costly, said Labour...But wait for it.

''And to honour those who raised us, I can affirm our commitment to restore the link between the Basic State Pension and earnings.''  Gordon Brown. 2007 Conference Speech

Health

''We will bring back matron, who will have the power to close wards for cleaning'' Conservative Manifesto 2005

Under Blair matron was indeed, brought back. So tick the box for the first proposal. But the second Conservative proposal was not adopted. At least not until...

''And I can announce that matrons will have the power to order additional cleaning and send out a message - meet the highest standards of cleanliness or lose your contract.'' Gordon Brown. 2007 Conference Speech

National Security.

''That's why we will appoint a Homeland Security Minister to co-ordinate our national response.''
Conservative Manifesto 2005.

''Tony Blair is hoping to implement swiftly plans set out yesterday to split the Home Office into a ministry for national security and a separate ministry for justice...' January 22 2007

Drugs

''We will stop sending mixed messages on drugs by reversing Labour's reclassification of cannabis as a less serious drug, changing it from Class 'C' back to Class 'B'...'We will break the link between drugs and crime by massively extending treatment programmes..'' Conservative Manifesto 2005.

Two years later....

''Laws making possession of cannabis a largely non-arrestable offence could be reversed, Gordon Brown has said...'' BBC News, July 18  2007

Gordon adopts Conservative Policy , but with one major anti-drugs initiative unfortunately lacking

''The flagship government scheme for treating drug addicts faces swingeing budget cuts of £50 million, it can be revealed today...The proposed cuts, phased over the next three years, would hit the "Pooled Treatment Budget" (PTB), the Government's main funding stream for drug treatment, which for this year is £398 million. '' Daily Telegraph, July 30th 2007

However less than two months later he u-turns and adopts the rest of the proposed Conservative policy

''To prevent addiction: we will extend drug education and expand drug treatment and we will send out a clear message that drugs are never going to be decriminalised.'' Gordon Brown. 2007 Conference Speech

Border Control

'First of all we will take proper control of our borders. We will ensure 24hr surveillance at our ports, and restore full embarkation controls...We believe the time has now come to establish a British Border Control Police, whose sole job will be to secure Britain's borders..'' Conservative Manifesto. 2005

David Cameron carried the issue through...

The Conservatives have appointed the former Metropolitan Police Commissioner Lord Stevens to lead a working group on creating a border police force.' BBC News, February 26 2007

Not that this was welcomed by the Government....

''For Labour, immigration minister Liam Byrne said the plans "are posture politics backed up by fantasy finances".  BBC News, February 26 2007

But Cameron pressured Gordon Brown until...

'Asked about Tory calls for a border police force, Mr Brown said he was prepared to look at the proposals but ID cards had to be part of the solution.' BBC News, July 4 2007.

And...here it comes!

''The prime minister also set out to wrong-foot the Tories by proposing a unified border police force to combat terrorism.'' The Guardian, July 25 2007 

Immigration

''We will introduce a points-based system for work permits similar to the one used in Australia'' Conservative Manifesto. 2005

''And we will move forward with our new Australian-style points-based approach to immigration.'' Gordon Brown. 2007 Conference Speech.

[Democratic Hawk]

Coming next (if I have the time!) How Labour have not implimented their own 2005 manifesto.

It's only 2007

Dave

[afleitch]

I have a feeling Dave you've missed the point I was making here

[Democratic Hawk]

It would seem, on reflection, that some Conservative policies aren't WITHOUT merit

- I support restoring the link between State Pensions and earnings [this policy itself more is more sincere coming from Labour given that it was a Conservative government which abolished it]

- I favour the return of Matrons big-time Hattie Jacques style

- Given the threat posed to our national security, I totally support a minister with responsibility for homeland security

- I've always been anti-drugs even though I tried skunk once, didn't like it, never did it again

- I'm in agreement with a unified border force (clearly a Tory policy I do support as it's in line with my 'hawkish' instincts) to combat terrorism

- I support an Australian points-based immigration system too. I have absolutely no beef whatsoever with EU economic migrants, they are here to work not freeload. In fact, I consider it a huge compliment that so many are coming to the UK. That tells me what a great country I must be living in. I've never been big on multi-culturalism, too much accomodation and not enough assimilation there, which can create tensions

See, even an ardent Labour supporter like me, can agree with some Conservative initiatives although I am progressively centre-left, for the most part. Move onto crime and national security, however, and I'm probably as right as any progressive could be

Dave

[Democratic Hawk]

I have a feeling Dave you've missed the point I was making here

Most likely

[Democratic Hawk]

I have a feeling Dave you've missed the point I was making here

Re: Labour's Manifesto. Don't mention the EU Constitution. Given that it was rejected by the French and the Dutch, it rendered Labour's pledge to hold a referendum obsolete

I, personally, favour a referendum on the Reform Treaty and would likely campaign for it in the event of one. I'd need to read it first. I'm not for surrendering the UK's permanent seat on the UN Security Council to any one, if that would be the case

I know when Cameron talks about it being "red tape", I suspect it's because of its too progressive, too 21st century.

From Richard Corbett MEP's blog:

David Cameron and his Tory Party are really plumbing the depths in the debate on the Reform Treaty. Cameron's article for this morning's Sun was rabid and riddled with untruths.

In particular, his claim that the Reform Treaty would "transfer power from our elected Parliament to the EU's unelected bureaucrats" is a flat out lie. In fact the opposite is the case. The Reform Treaty specifically increases the power of elected parliaments not bureaucrats by increasing the role of national parliaments and the European Parliament. It strictly limits EU action to the policy areas agreed by Member States in the treaties. Mr Cameron has either not read the Treaty or has no understanding of its contents - perhaps not surprising since he is too arrogant to meet with his right-wing counterparts in Europe.

He talks about Gordon Brown's "shameless arrogance" as being a "big cancer eating away at trust in politics". On the contrary, it is Cameron who is displaying shameless arrogance by telling lies to the British people.

Cameron's dishonest assertions follow on from William Hague's barmy claim that the Reform Treaty would see the EU take Britain's seat on the UN Security Council. This is simply not true.

Cameron thinks that he is a "euro-realist" and pledged to create a new-centre right group in Europe which would include the Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topalenek's Eurosceptic Civic Democrat Party. But the Czech PM is refusing to hold a referendum on the Reform Treaty as it does not create any new powers for the EU. Topolanek's stance speaks volumes about the Tories' opportunism and obsessive Europhobia.

David Cameron and his party seem to be pursuing a policy of 'little Englander' isolationism that would greatly damage Britain's national interests. For a man who hopes to become Prime Minister, his tactics and arguments on the Reform Treaty have been gutter politics of the highest order.

That is, partly, why he'd make a lousy PM. I find Cameron's pledge to take Conservative MEPs out of the EPP worrying. Our place is at the heart of Europe, Cameron would have us tooting from the fringe

Prime Minister Gordon Brown, on the other hand, will be feted on the international stage; accomplishing great things with a Democratic US president. God-willing this will come in 2008

Dave

[The Man From G.O.P.]

In my ignorant opinion what you've found here is true and quite interesting. What I think we have to remember is Brown can mimic Howard becuase Cameron gave him so much room on the right to do so. With such a weak appearance to the LD's Brown can probably make moves attractive to the right, while not losing any of his own base.

Howards message was easily the best since '97, while I can be angry at the hipocracy of Brown taking parts of it, I can also admire him for it.

[Democratic Hawk]

Howards message was easily the best since '97, while I can be angry at the hipocracy of Brown taking parts of it, I can also admire him for it.

Well to the Cameron's credit the Conservatives are taking/have undertaken a thorough policy review. I've never read the 2005 manifesto, however, I gather it was so short it was reminiscent of something scribbled on the back of a postcard the night before it went to press

I've discovered one or two things I agree with. I keep a "big tent", my personal politics are eclectic, but I know where my centre of gravity lies

Dave

[afleitch]

FTR there was alot in the Tory minfesto (drafted by Cameron remember) that Labour under Blair/Brown have lifted but as I couldn't find supporting dates/quotes etc I left them out

The reaction to Brown's speech across the blogosphere pretty much summed up what I now believe; Labour members will support any policy if it's a Labour policy no matter how new, where it came from, how right wing or how many u-turns have been performed on it which is a great shame as these things go. The Labour Conference was shorn of policy debate this year as not to wreck Gordons big show. Even that show was pilfered from other speeched and has the finger prints of Shrum all over it (which while not important on it's own, it puts an end to the short term pretence that Gordon had somehow 'abolished spin') So no leadership contests, no policy debates at conference. If that's how the party want's to run itself then fine, just don't saddle the rest of us with it.

[Democratic Hawk]

I can assure you that we do have healthy policy debates in the Labour Party; in fact, I insist on it at the Branch. Most of it is now undertaken by National Policy Forums. We've moved on the ruinous ructions of the 1980s , from which we, ultimately, emerged stronger. Much dogma was cast aside and not before time

I'm not a Conservative so it is not for me to comment how the party goes about its business. Though, I've been voicing my opinion as to what Cameron needs to do - sort of . Many in his party might not like it

Even that show was pilfered from other speeched and has the finger prints of Shrum all over it (which while not important on it's own, it puts an end to the short term pretence that Gordon had somehow 'abolished spin')

Well, personally, Gordon Brown using rhetoric rather similar to that of prominant Democrats shouldn't really come as a surprise. I consider the Labour Party pretty much a sister party to the Democratic Party, at least, from the New Deal onwards

The Conservative Party are welcome to the GOP, I don't mind - as long as you don't go there too

Dave

[Democratic Hawk]

BTW, I was out this morning in the village from 10.00 to 12.30, street surgery whereby we go to the voters whether than them come to us

There were five of us stood there chatting and when I said if I was to meet Baroness Thatcher, I'd give her a kiss (no, seriously, I'd shake her hand) and shake Lord Tebbit's hand, if there'd been a whole in the road, the other four would have fallen through it

Funny old world, the most bizarre things happen even with me. I must be becoming more mellow with age

Dave

[Democratic Hawk]

FTR there was alot in the Tory minfesto (drafted by Cameron remember) that Labour under Blair/Brown have lifted but as I couldn't find supporting dates/quotes etc I left them out

I'm actually considering buying the next one just to see the extent to which I'd agree or disagree with it. Nothing can change what I am though. The 'Hawk' is not for turning, not full-circle anyways

Dave

[afleitch]

FTR there was alot in the Tory minfesto (drafted by Cameron remember) that Labour under Blair/Brown have lifted but as I couldn't find supporting dates/quotes etc I left them out

I'm actually considering buying the next one just to see the extent to which I'd agree or disagree with it. Nothing can change what I am though. The 'Hawk' is not for turning, not full-circle anyways

Dave

Well not intentionally anyway If the party turns you turn with it rather than turn away from the party. Knowing your past (very recent past) comments about Mrs T and Norman if you'd seriously shake their hands in this new climate it pretty much proves my point

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Disgusting. Labour fails.

[Lief 🗽]

Yes, yes it does. LibDem please.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, yes it does. LibDem please.

...who support privatising the Post Office, savage cuts to the Welfare State (or at least the parts of it that, you know, help working class people, as opposed to the sort of people who vote LibDem. They would, of course, expand it for them) that go beyond anything that the Tories dare to speak of these days and in general taking from the poor and giving it to the middle.

And this is just under Campbell. The next LibDem leader will almost certainly be further to the Right than him.

[Platypus]

Basically, if an election was held today, you would vote Labour if you want to vote Tory, vote Tory if you want to vote LibDem, and vote LibDem if you want to be spiteful

[afleitch]

Basically, if an election was held today, you would vote Labour if you want to vote Tory, vote Tory if you want to vote LibDem, and vote LibDem if you want to be spiteful

You're not far wrong I will vote Conservative because I am a classic liberal on personal freedom, civil liberties and an unobtrusive non surveillance state. Cameron has to stand up for 'Liberal England' because Menzies is to weak to do so.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A lot of these are stretching things a little (more than that in some cases) and don't cover more than a fraction of government policies (I would also add that they don't cover more than a fraction of the Tory manifesto either, but it was a rather small document, wasn't it?), but there's only one I'll comment on specifically:

Pensions

''A Conservative government will increase the basic state pension in line with earnings rather than prices, reversing the spread of means testing.'' Conservative Manifesto 2005.

Too costly, said Labour...But wait for it.

''And to honour those who raised us, I can affirm our commitment to restore the link between the Basic State Pension and earnings.''  Gordon Brown. 2007 Conference Speech

The Tories were hardly the only people to call for the return of the earnings link (and, significantly, they only called for it when they were in opposition), quite a few people in the Labour Party and in the Labour Movement have done so as well (and for longer).

And, of course, this is the problem with some of the other things listed here. Most of these policies are either, in some respects at least, quite different to those in the Tory manifesto or, as far as I can tell, clearly influenced by other things.

I should add that I don't actually support all the listed policies.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Labour members will support any policy if it's a Labour policy no matter how new, where it came from, how right wing or how many u-turns have been performed on it which is a great shame as these things go.

Oh, so we're all sheep are we? How nice.

Your slur isn't true, btw (if you can't find Labour people who aren't 100% happy with everything Gordon-related, you can't have been looking for very long), and completely misses the point. Most people who join (or strongly support) a political party (or the Labour Party anyway) do not do so because that party has a collection of individual policies that that person happens to like the like look of.

I'll happily state here that I would have voted Labour in 1983, despite disagreeing with a majority of the manifesto and being almost militantly opposed to certain policies inside it. The only exceptions would be in constituencies in which the candidate was a member of Militant (or someone who might as well have been), in which case I would have had to vote SDP (or spoil my ballot).

[afleitch]

Al, I didn't mean it like that and I apologise if it came across that way.

It's very difficult, (being the only active UK based Tory supporter on the forum) to make a negative comment about what I can only call 'inertia' in the Labour grassroots movement as I well know there are several Labour members on here and I don't wish to offend anyone personally. I don't take digs at the Tory grassroots to heart as I know they're not personal and I hope others don't too.

Times are I guess, heated.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Al, I didn't mean it like that and I apologise if it came across that way.

Ah, that's O.K.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

By inertia, you mean the fact that only the remains of the Hard Left has expressed any concerns about the direction in which Brown is taking the Party? In which case;

1. Labour's core voters (including rank-and-file blue collar Trade Unionists and those Party members (ie; a majority) who aren't activists) aren't expressing any concerns because, with, perhaps, the exception of That Photo with That Woman, they don't really have any concerns with the direction that Brown is taking the party in. Brown comes across as someone with respect for Labour traditions in a way that Blair never did, and most of the policy changes since Brown became P.M are as popular with working class voters as the lower middle class ones that Brown has certainly targeted.

2. Much of the above is true of activists as well (or at least some of them), but there are other reasons as well.
An understanding that an election isn't that far away is an obvious one (disunity before an election is obviously not a good thing), another is that things seem to be going alright at the moment (Harold Wilson's comment about a horse-drawn carriage is still fairly accurate), while a further factor is that the Brown leadership represents a blank slate as far as factions and so on go; for the past decade or so most of that stuff was built around attitudes to Blair and, obviously, aren't relevant anymore... especially as Brown almost made a point of not purging former supporters of Blair from positions of influence when he took over in the way that everyone had sort-of being expecting.

This situation won't last forever; never does.

[Democratic Hawk]

FTR there was alot in the Tory minfesto (drafted by Cameron remember) that Labour under Blair/Brown have lifted but as I couldn't find supporting dates/quotes etc I left them out

I'm actually considering buying the next one just to see the extent to which I'd agree or disagree with it. Nothing can change what I am though. The 'Hawk' is not for turning, not full-circle anyways

Dave

Well not intentionally anyway If the party turns you turn with it rather than turn away from the party. Knowing your past (very recent past) comments about Mrs T and Norman if you'd seriously shake their hands in this new climate it pretty much proves my point

Believe me that I will always hold the neo-liberal legacy of mass welfare dependency, that the 1980s ushered in, and the damage it did to social cohesion in much disdain. It's not surprising society is ruptured in parts

But I've grown to respect Thatcher as a conviction politician, I can't deny the old girl that. It does not follow that I share her convictions. You know me, Mr "Big Tent", consensus-building pragmatist that I am

I've not one jot of respect for David Cameron ; while I'm sure you feel the same towards Gordon Brown. To each, their own . I also take much exception to someone like David Cameron pontificating about levels of personal debt, coming from a guy who I dare say has never had to scrimp for anything in life, and all this "anarchy" scaremongering of his. Disgusting

Dave

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Yes, yes it does. LibDem please.

...who support privatising the Post Office, savage cuts to the Welfare State (or at least the parts of it that, you know, help working class people, as opposed to the sort of people who vote LibDem. They would, of course, expand it for them) that go beyond anything that the Tories dare to speak of these days and in general taking from the poor and giving it to the middle.

And this is just under Campbell. The next LibDem leader will almost certainly be further to the Right than him.

Hearing about their platform makes me favor them even more.

[Democratic Hawk]

Yes, yes it does. LibDem please.

...who support privatising the Post Office, savage cuts to the Welfare State (or at least the parts of it that, you know, help working class people, as opposed to the sort of people who vote LibDem. They would, of course, expand it for them) that go beyond anything that the Tories dare to speak of these days and in general taking from the poor and giving it to the middle.

And this is just under Campbell. The next LibDem leader will almost certainly be further to the Right than him.

Hearing about their platform makes me favor them even more.

Because you're an economic reactionary

Dave