Roe v. Wade Hypothetical

[bullmoose88]

Bowers only scrutinizes those that are deeply held in American tradition. They can say that abortion is not part of american tradition and therefore is a behavior that can be prosecuted.


But...what would the map look like?

But Bowers has been overruled by Lawerence...Kennedy used the Heightened rational basis test there...(gays don't get the same type of scrutiny as race or gender, but can something because they're targeted for some sort of exclusion).

[Person Man]

Bowers only scrutinizes those that are deeply held in American tradition. They can say that abortion is not part of american tradition and therefore is a behavior that can be prosecuted.


But...what would the map look like?

But Bowers has been overruled by Lawerence...Kennedy used the Heightened rational basis test there...(gays don't get the same type of scrutiny as race or gender, but can something because they're targeted for some sort of exclusion).

Not neccesiarily... it was just overruled in respect to sodomy. It could still be used as a means of due process. Just look at the Washington assisted suicide case.

[bullmoose88]

Bowers only scrutinizes those that are deeply held in American tradition. They can say that abortion is not part of american tradition and therefore is a behavior that can be prosecuted.


But...what would the map look like?

But Bowers has been overruled by Lawerence...Kennedy used the Heightened rational basis test there...(gays don't get the same type of scrutiny as race or gender, but can something because they're targeted for some sort of exclusion).

Not neccesiarily... it was just overruled in respect to sodomy. It could still be used as a means of due process. Just look at the Washington assisted suicide case.

Well i'd think we'd be looking at it from an equal protection standard...I think it was a mistake to ground abortion in substantive due process...and privacy

[Person Man]

Bowers only scrutinizes those that are deeply held in American tradition. They can say that abortion is not part of american tradition and therefore is a behavior that can be prosecuted.


But...what would the map look like?

But Bowers has been overruled by Lawerence...Kennedy used the Heightened rational basis test there...(gays don't get the same type of scrutiny as race or gender, but can something because they're targeted for some sort of exclusion).

Not neccesiarily... it was just overruled in respect to sodomy. It could still be used as a means of due process. Just look at the Washington assisted suicide case.

Well i'd think we'd be looking at it from an equal protection standard...I think it was a mistake to ground abortion in substantive due process...and privacy

Well, I guess if Roe was overturned, this would be the new argument to get the right to have an abortion back into the constitution.

[bullmoose88]

Bowers only scrutinizes those that are deeply held in American tradition. They can say that abortion is not part of american tradition and therefore is a behavior that can be prosecuted.


But...what would the map look like?

But Bowers has been overruled by Lawerence...Kennedy used the Heightened rational basis test there...(gays don't get the same type of scrutiny as race or gender, but can something because they're targeted for some sort of exclusion).

Not neccesiarily... it was just overruled in respect to sodomy. It could still be used as a means of due process. Just look at the Washington assisted suicide case.

Well i'd think we'd be looking at it from an equal protection standard...I think it was a mistake to ground abortion in substantive due process...and privacy

Well, I guess if Roe was overturned, this would be the new argument to get the right to have an abortion back into the constitution.

Well yeah...you'd go the Ginsberg route and anchor it in the equal protection clause and give it intermediate scrutiny...higher if ginsberg could ever get sex discrimination on par with race

As a disclaimer, I am pro-life, but apathetic...there are far many more issues I feel like we have to deal with and until we address them, I am somewhat okay to keep them safe, legal, and rare...

But my main concern with getting rid of abortion, and what keeps me apathetic, is that because it has been grounded in privacy, and substantive due process...a reversal of the Roe/Casey line, may erode privacy rights...and that does bother me.

[Sam Spade]

Roe/Casey (the latter being more relevant) isn't going to overturned anytime soon, if ever.  The only changes will be allowing more significant state restrictions on abortion, at least while Kennedy controls the court.  After that is anyone's guess, but I suspect Roberts/Alito won't overturn it either, just limit it more than Kennedy.

It is too bad, because it is still horrible jurisprudence.

[Person Man]

R-TX?

[Person Man]

Bowers only scrutinizes those that are deeply held in American tradition. They can say that abortion is not part of american tradition and therefore is a behavior that can be prosecuted.


But...what would the map look like?

But Bowers has been overruled by Lawerence...Kennedy used the Heightened rational basis test there...(gays don't get the same type of scrutiny as race or gender, but can something because they're targeted for some sort of exclusion).

Not neccesiarily... it was just overruled in respect to sodomy. It could still be used as a means of due process. Just look at the Washington assisted suicide case.

Well i'd think we'd be looking at it from an equal protection standard...I think it was a mistake to ground abortion in substantive due process...and privacy

Well, I guess if Roe was overturned, this would be the new argument to get the right to have an abortion back into the constitution.

Well yeah...you'd go the Ginsberg route and anchor it in the equal protection clause and give it intermediate scrutiny...higher if ginsberg could ever get sex discrimination on par with race

As a disclaimer, I am pro-life, but apathetic...there are far many more issues I feel like we have to deal with and until we address them, I am somewhat okay to keep them safe, legal, and rare...

But my main concern with getting rid of abortion, and what keeps me apathetic, is that because it has been grounded in privacy, and substantive due process...a reversal of the Roe/Casey line, may erode privacy rights...and that does bother me.

A lot of people are like that. Pro-Life means you want an abortion ban and you don't seem to want that. Maybe you are neither Pro-Life or Pro-Choice.

[Sam Spade]

R-TX?

What does having an opinion about the quality and validity of jurisprudence have to do with political beliefs?

[Person Man]

Technically, it doesn't.....but we all know what it means on a subjective level.

[Sam Spade]

Technically, it doesn't.....but we all know what it means on a subjective level.

OK.  Do you have any more illogical statements you would like to present on this thread?  (snarf, snarf)

[A18]

The court should hold, in an appropriate case, that abortion laws do not trigger any form of heightened scrutiny under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, and that earlier cases holding otherwise are to that extent overruled. Rational-basis review would apply, and every abortion law should easily pass it.

Of course, far more must be done to restore the proper scope of due-process, but one case at a time. (And some people think I'm not moderate.)

[Person Man]

Technically, it doesn't.....but we all know what it means on a subjective level.

OK.  Do you have any more illogical statements you would like to present on this thread?  (snarf, snarf)

Some things can't be proven objectively. *shrugs* That doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Option 2 and giggle manically and watch as the right culture wars alliance falls apart and the left uses the backlash to move america to something resembling sanity.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. But the cost may be too high.

I hadn't even thought of that when I voted, but hopefully improvements in the quality of life and standard of living will make abortion less necessary.

[Person Man]

Option 2 and giggle manically and watch as the right culture wars alliance falls apart and the left uses the backlash to move america to something resembling sanity.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. But the cost may be too high.

I hadn't even thought of that when I voted, but hopefully improvements in the quality of life and standard of living will make abortion less necessary.

...and the general acceptance of illegitimate children into society has helped to reduce the need for abortion. We must walk a fine line between personal responsibility and forgiveness.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I'm sick of both sides of the Roe v. Wade matter.  It doesn't affect my vote for President, period.

Leave it to the states to decide.

For those who think it's murder, no problem with letting the states decide, murder is a state crime. 

[Person Man]

I'm sick of both sides of the Roe v. Wade matter.  It doesn't affect my vote for President, period.

Leave it to the states to decide.

For those who think it's murder, no problem with letting the states decide, murder is a state crime. 

I have been asking how that would work. What would the policy map look like...could someone effectively go out of state to get an abortion...how would states enforce their abortion bans... could you just tell someone if they get an abortion in another state, they can't come back?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I'm sick of both sides of the Roe v. Wade matter.  It doesn't affect my vote for President, period.

Leave it to the states to decide.

For those who think it's murder, no problem with letting the states decide, murder is a state crime. 

I have been asking how that would work. What would the policy map look like...could someone effectively go out of state to get an abortion...how would states enforce their abortion bans... could you just tell someone if they get an abortion in another state, they can't come back?

If I come to your state and punch you in the mouth, am I subject to your laws or PA's law regarding the punishment for it?

[Person Man]

Yes, but there may be extradition laws. Oh. I forgot to mention that there was talk in Ohio about a ban that would make it illegal to go into another state to have an abortion.

By the way, what do you think the abortion map will look like?

[bullmoose88]

Yes, but there may be extradition laws. Oh. I forgot to mention that there was talk in Ohio about a ban that would make it illegal to go into another state to have an abortion.

By the way, what do you think the abortion map will look like?

I could only forsee such a plan turning against the pro-life faction in the long run...in the age we live in...the idea that pregnant women crossing statelines would be subject to some sort of examination/questioning...even if its to go from PA to the Jersey shore in the summer time...could be well...frightening.

[Person Man]

That's why Roe is still a good idea. We have been solving the abortion problem non-violently as childbirth and childrearing has become more acceptable for those who are not heterosexual married couples that are thirtysomethings. If Roe were overturned, I think the uniform Abortion Code, which mirrors what has been adopted in the UK and Colorado, should be adopted, effectively making abortion decisions on a case-to-case procedural basis of whether 2 or 3 doctors can establish a need for an abortion.

[Frodo]

With Sonia Sotomayor pretty much on course to be confirmed to the Supreme Court, I think it's time to bump this...

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Option 2, of course.

[tmthforu94]

I'm actually going to agree with the Romney Hater...

Option 2, of course.

[TeePee4Prez]

Leave as is, or preferably strengthen the protections of a woman's right to abortion.

Agreed, but would be fine with some partial birth restrictions.  I'd toss stuff like husband/parental notification, waiting periods, forcing women into biased CPC's, etc.