Nikki Haley says she will vote for Trump

[Neo-Malthusian Misanthrope]

I don't think it would have taken more than a few olive branches to the neocons or never Trumpers or whatever you want to call them, to get somebody like Haley to at least remain neutral. As it stands, Biden is in this weird mushy middle ground between establishment Democrats and the progressive left, pleasing nobody, and utterly oblivious to the fact that the "strongest economy in American history" is very uneven in how it is benefitting people. Combine that with the aforementioned weakness on crime and immigration, and it's not hard to see why Haley came back to Trump even after everything. I foresee a lot of potentially persuadable voters (ie the ones who won Biden the election in 2020) doing the same, and I don't know if turning out the base against Trump will be enough.

[EastwoodS]

Just like 99% of Nikki Haley voters too. Sorry Dems, this isn't the same as uncommitted for Biden.

[7,052,770]

They have the mindset that no reasonable person can support Trump which given how close 2020 was is a terrible mindset to have because that fundamentally means you are making your self out of touch with the electorate.

You're ignoring that a whole lot of things happened after Election Night though over the next few months. Millions of voters were turned off by all the election denial, trying to overturn the elections in Courts or in Congress, culminating in literally sending a violent mob to the Capitol to murder his VP and overthrow the government violently.

I know a couple people in real life who voted for Trump in 2020. Both regretted it before 1/6 and are now 100% for Biden this year, reluctantly but they feel they have no choice. (They also don't like it when I refer to them as Democrats...)

This was a voter bloc the polling likely missed in 2022, and I don't think they're suddenly going back to Trump. Will it be enough to save Biden? Who knows.

[Ljube]

We need to see the effects of this in New Jersey primary.

[MarkD]

Let's play for her recordings of Trump saying that, in 2020, "we won every single state in the country." What does she make of Trump claiming such a thing?
In the audio recording here, start listening at about 7:25 and listen for 15 seconds.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html
In this video, start at about 1:17:05 and listen for about 15 seconds.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?507634-1/president-trump-remarks-georgia-us-senate-campaign-event

[Progressive Pessimist]

We need to see the effects of this in New Jersey primary.

She isn't even on the ballot.

Trump will do much better than Biden, who has to contend with the uncommitted vote.

[GoTfan]

This is why targeting Haley's voters is a futile cause by Biden. Persuasion only goes so far in Pres election, turnout is more important. Many hardline conservatives voted for Haley because she is younger or has less baggage, but will ultimately have no qualms about voting for Trump. The Haley voters who will vote for Biden are just party-line Democrats voting in the R primary to try and sink Trump.

For Biden to win, he has to re-energize the disaffected working class, younger, and non-white Democratic base, the same types of voters who brought Obama and Clinton to easy 2x victories. They were energized to vote against Trump in 2020 but now that is not enough. It's not going to be easy.

Many working class voters are culturally conservative though. If Biden wants to get them he has to take strong action on the border , on law and order etc . Bill Clinton absolutely would have taken action on those two issues by now and in doing so would have made it much harder for Trump to win .

The fundamental problem for the democrats is it’s increasingly being dominated by college educated liberals who are extremely out of touch with the rest of the electorate.

Ruy Teixeria has written a lot about it and his columns are actually good reads :

https://substack.com/profile/12224429-ruy-teixeira

There was a bill that would have dealt with immigration. Your party killed it because Trump demanded it. Fault for this lies with Trump and the sycophantic fellow travellers like yourself.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Fundamentally the problem is Biden does not believe he’s perceived as poorly as he is and neither do partisan democrats . They have the mindset that no reasonable person can support Trump which given how close 2020 was is a terrible mindset to have because that fundamentally means you are making your self out of touch with the electorate. It’s far more effective to think that reasonable people can in which case then you would try to counter that by doing something to at the very least reduce people’s concerns about you in those areas .

"No reasonable person can support Trump" is a perfectly accurate statement. Where Democrats (and non-Republicans in general) fail is refusing to follow through and accept that half their fellow citizens are not reasonable people, and then move forward on that basis. I sympathize with the reluctance to come to terms with it, because its implications are awful. But pretending you're not living in 1920s Germany just means that you're going to be stuck living (or dying) in 1930s and 1940s Germany.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Fundamentally the problem is Biden does not believe he’s perceived as poorly as he is and neither do partisan democrats . They have the mindset that no reasonable person can support Trump which given how close 2020 was is a terrible mindset to have because that fundamentally means you are making your self out of touch with the electorate. It’s far more effective to think that reasonable people can in which case then you would try to counter that by doing something to at the very least reduce people’s concerns about you in those areas .

"No reasonable person can support Trump" is a perfectly accurate statement. Where Democrats (and non-Republicans in general) fail is refusing to follow through and accept that half their fellow citizens are not reasonable people, and then move forward on that basis. I sympathize with the reluctance to come to terms with it, because its implications are awful. But pretending you're not living in 1920s Germany just means that you're going to be stuck living (or dying) in 1930s and 1940s Germany.

We do not live in 1920s Germany . At most we live in 2022 Israel

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Fundamentally the problem is Biden does not believe he’s perceived as poorly as he is and neither do partisan democrats . They have the mindset that no reasonable person can support Trump which given how close 2020 was is a terrible mindset to have because that fundamentally means you are making your self out of touch with the electorate. It’s far more effective to think that reasonable people can in which case then you would try to counter that by doing something to at the very least reduce people’s concerns about you in those areas .

"No reasonable person can support Trump" is a perfectly accurate statement. Where Democrats (and non-Republicans in general) fail is refusing to follow through and accept that half their fellow citizens are not reasonable people, and then move forward on that basis. I sympathize with the reluctance to come to terms with it, because its implications are awful. But pretending you're not living in 1920s Germany just means that you're going to be stuck living (or dying) in 1930s and 1940s Germany.

We do not live in 1920s Germany . At most we live in 2022 Israel

Are you implying that you and your party eagerly await a triggering act of violence to justify your desire for genocide on the "others"? Because I'm not seeing what else you mean here.

[GoTfan]

Fundamentally the problem is Biden does not believe he’s perceived as poorly as he is and neither do partisan democrats . They have the mindset that no reasonable person can support Trump which given how close 2020 was is a terrible mindset to have because that fundamentally means you are making your self out of touch with the electorate. It’s far more effective to think that reasonable people can in which case then you would try to counter that by doing something to at the very least reduce people’s concerns about you in those areas .

"No reasonable person can support Trump" is a perfectly accurate statement. Where Democrats (and non-Republicans in general) fail is refusing to follow through and accept that half their fellow citizens are not reasonable people, and then move forward on that basis. I sympathize with the reluctance to come to terms with it, because its implications are awful. But pretending you're not living in 1920s Germany just means that you're going to be stuck living (or dying) in 1930s and 1940s Germany.

We do not live in 1920s Germany . At most we live in 2022 Israel

Your party has nominated a man who attempted a self-coup and will now do whatever he demands of them. At best, you're a party of sycophants, at worst you're actively supportive of him.

[OSR stands with Israel]

This mindset is exactly why Biden is losing . If you assume no reasonable person can vote for your opponent then you become delusional and out of touch to some of the facts while if you assume they can then you would take action to prevent that .

So if you want to win you should always assume a reasonable person can vote for your opponent as that will make it easier for you to take action to prevent that .

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

This mindset is exactly why Biden is losing . If you assume no reasonable person can vote for your opponent then you become delusional and out of touch to some of the facts while if you assume they can then you would take action to prevent that .

So if you want to win you should always assume a reasonable person can vote for your opponent as that will make it easier for you to take action to prevent that .

This is just argument to moderation in a fancy coat.

This is just one more attempting to paint the unreasonable as reasonable in order to defend your party's continued support of the indefensible. Republicans don't even have a political platform, just a pledge of loyalty to Donald Trump and $100 "prove you are a True Republican" cards.

[GoTfan]

This mindset is exactly why Biden is losing . If you assume no reasonable person can vote for your opponent then you become delusional and out of touch to some of the facts while if you assume they can then you would take action to prevent that .

So if you want to win you should always assume a reasonable person can vote for your opponent as that will make it easier for you to take action to prevent that .

No reasonable person would be able to bring themselves to vote for a man who attempted a self-coup, pushed anti-vaxxer rhetoric, said he'll be a dictator, and has a policy programme designed specifically to install a fascist government.

[7,052,770]

This mindset is exactly why Biden is losing . If you assume no reasonable person can vote for your opponent then you become delusional and out of touch to some of the facts while if you assume they can then you would take action to prevent that .

So if you want to win you should always assume a reasonable person can vote for your opponent as that will make it easier for you to take action to prevent that .

A "reasonable person" might warp themselves into voting for Trump, but anyone who does is a bad American. The most fundamental of all American values is our democratic system, and Trump is actively opposed to that, nearly destroying it a few years ago. Why put him back in office to finish the job? I'm 100% comfortable in saying a good American (as opposed to a good American or a good American) would never vote for that.