SiCKO

[tik 🪀✨]

I just recently returned from watching it. Strangely, it was played at a more local 'cheap theater' that typically plays older movies or less widely available films as opposed to a large theater that carries new wide releases.

Use this thread to discuss your thoughts on the movie. What you liked and disliked, if you agree with the premise, etc. Also assume that this thread will have 'spoilers' if they can really even be called that, since there isn't exactly a plot. Please do NOT reply if you have not seen the movie yet or just want to trash Michael Moore and/or the concept of socialised/universal free health care.

I thought the movie was fairly well done, myself. A lot of the reviews I read that debased it did so on the premise that all it contained were anecdotal scenerios that illustrated his point. There are a lot of personal situations that he addresses, but to me it made the point of the movie seem more real. Usually he chose average, middle class families, especially those that thought they were covered but were denied for frivolous reasons. He also made the government run health care programs in Canada, the UK, France, and even Cuba seem glamourous without touching on the real problems people may have with it. He does do a good job attempting to address a lot of the perceived nightmare ideas we have about it, however.

The one claim in the movie that just about everyone can agree with is that our system is broken, obviously, but this goes further to show that having a profit-based corporation in charge of providing funding for health care is downright silly.

Please berate me.

[MaC]

I want to trash Micheal Moore and/or the concept of universal free health care. 

[tik 🪀✨]

I want to trash Micheal Moore and/or the concept of universal free health care. 

That yellow avatar looks unhealthy, perhaps you should seek medical advice.

[MaC]

I want to trash Micheal Moore and/or the concept of universal free health care. 

That yellow avatar looks unhealthy, perhaps you should seek medical advice.

Fine, but to be fair to you, I shall pay for the treatment all by myself.  Without your tax money.

[tik 🪀✨]

I want to trash Micheal Moore and/or the concept of universal free health care. 

That yellow avatar looks unhealthy, perhaps you should seek medical advice.

Fine, but to be fair to you, I shall pay for the treatment all by myself.  Without your tax money.

That's a big boy! *ruffles hair*

[Hatman 🍁]

Health care is a human right. 'nuff said.

[MaC]

Health care is a human right

at the expense of others.  'nuff said.

[tik 🪀✨]

Health care is a human right

at the expense of others.  'nuff said.

Both of you missed the point of this thread. If you haven't seen the movie and just want to further shout the point everyone already knows you stand for, find another thread. I'm sure there are plenty of them about this where you can argue back and forth pointlessly.

[John Dibble]

Haven't seen the movie, and don't really plan to. Michael Moore isn't exactly the guy to go to for a completely accurate documentary. I did read one review that made some quite good points - while Moore does a good job of pointing out problems in our system (though often cherry picked exceptional cases rather than general ones) he doesn't give any problems that happen in countries with universal health care. Take for instance that in Canada dogs can get a hip replacement in a week, but for humans it might take months or even years. Like most things Moore makes, all indications are that it's almost completely one sided.

Anywho, get a bunch of info on it from Google.
http://news.google.com/nwshp?tab=wn&ncl=1117466940&hl=en

Tons of articles to read about it.

[Verily]

Haven't seen the movie, and don't really plan to. Michael Moore isn't exactly the guy to go to for a completely accurate documentary. I did read one review that made some quite good points - while Moore does a good job of pointing out problems in our system (though often cherry picked exceptional cases rather than general ones) he doesn't give any problems that happen in countries with universal health care. Take for instance that in Canada dogs can get a hip replacement in a week, but for humans it might take months or even years. Like most things Moore makes, all indications are that it's almost completely one sided.

The point that's often missed is that in most universal health care countries (Britain being the only exception I know of), you are free to pay for your own elective health care and receive more prompt service if you so desire. This is basically the same as the US system, except, if you can't pay for the expensive hip replacement, you'll be able to get one anyway, just slower.

The movie was decent. I tend to agree with reviews that it could have made the same point without some of the omissions although detailed explanations would really just confuse most moviegoers. It certainly showed the myriad failings of our system well. Bowling for Columbine was better, but this one is much better than Fahrenheit 9/11.

[Hatman 🍁]

Health care is a human right

at the expense of others.  'nuff said.

All human rights come to the expense of others. I don't understand your rebuttle.

[MaC]

Health care is a human right

at the expense of others.  'nuff said.

All human rights come to the expense of others. I don't understand your rebuttle.

no they don't.  If I want to live, or buy something how is it skin off your back?

Tik-you knew you're thread hijacking was coming

As for Moore, I don't know why someone would watch his movies.  Getting facts from him is like taking medical advice from Jack the Ripper.

[Hatman 🍁]

Health care is a human right

at the expense of others.  'nuff said.

All human rights come to the expense of others. I don't understand your rebuttle.

no they don't.  If I want to live, or buy something how is it skin off your back?

Expense of others; not necessarily you.

[Conan]

Health care is a human right

at the expense of others.  'nuff said.

All human rights come to the expense of others. I don't understand your rebuttle.

no they don't.  If I want to live, or buy something how is it skin off your back?

Tik-you knew you're thread hijacking was coming

As for Moore, I don't know why someone would watch his movies.  Getting facts from him is like taking medical advice from Jack the Ripper.

Would it defeat your purpose or make you feel any better if this system becomes less expensive than our current one with far more benefits with a lower cost? If I recall correctly, this is what would happen.

Anyway, do you plan on taking social security when you are older? Because technically even though you are contributing it now, the checks that you receive in the future will be money from the generation behind you. So it's not just getting your money back.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Haven't seen it, don't plan to see it, and even if I wanted to, I can't this week.  The distributor yanked the film from the screens that were supposed to show it at the last moment, probably so they could ration their film reels to other markets where it would play better and generate good opening week box office.

[MaC]

Anyway, do you plan on taking social security when you are older?

haha, no.  I know there will be absolutely nothing left for me by the time I'm retirement age.

[Tender Branson]

I saw the movie and I appreciate the Austrian Social Security System even more. I mean it´s clear that he picked out the Horror-Stories, but I share the eyebrow-raising with the Canadian doctor when he was told about the American guy without insurance if he wanted his ring finger attached for 10.000 $ or his middle finger for 60.000$. For me it´s obvious that this system sucks if the money goes before the patient´s life. It´s good that we treat patients first and then care about the financials. I´d rather be solidaric and would be willing to pay for my countrymen who are in need rather than beeing an egoistic nut.

The list of possible diseases that made you ineligible for an insurance freaked me out too. Here you have an insurance no matter what disease you have or may have had. That the insurance companies deny you their services because you had one of the trillion diseases and that they even tried to gain at the expense of the sick really stunned me.

20% of Austrians find our Health-care system "very good", 62% "good", 11% neither good or bad and just 5% "bad" and 2% "very bad" - a proof of confidence.

I know our system too has its flaws like every system does, but at least noone needs to make a movie about it and it´s certainly not regarded as "Evil Socialized System" ...

[Bono]

Anyway, do you plan on taking social security when you are older?

Even if he did, so what? Isn't he paying taxes towards it? In the outlandish possibility that the system isn't in bankruptcy by the time he reaches old age, he'd be just getting a bit back from what they took from him.

[Bono]

Haven't seen the movie, and don't really plan to. Michael Moore isn't exactly the guy to go to for a completely accurate documentary. I did read one review that made some quite good points - while Moore does a good job of pointing out problems in our system (though often cherry picked exceptional cases rather than general ones) he doesn't give any problems that happen in countries with universal health care. Take for instance that in Canada dogs can get a hip replacement in a week, but for humans it might take months or even years. Like most things Moore makes, all indications are that it's almost completely one sided.

The point that's often missed is that in most universal health care countries (Britain being the only exception I know of), you are free to pay for your own elective health care and receive more prompt service if you so desire. This is basically the same as the US system, except, if you can't pay for the expensive hip replacement, you'll be able to get one anyway, just slower.

The movie was decent. I tend to agree with reviews that it could have made the same point without some of the omissions although detailed explanations would really just confuse most moviegoers. It certainly showed the myriad failings of our system well. Bowling for Columbine was better, but this one is much better than Fahrenheit 9/11.

No, Britain is a two-tier system too. The exception you're thinking off is Canada. However, most liberals are proposing a Canada-like single payer system, not a two-tier system.

[Bono]

I saw the movie and I appreciate the Austrian Social Security System even more. I mean it´s clear that he picked out the Horror-Stories, but I share the eyebrow-raising with the Canadian doctor when he was told about the American guy without insurance if he wanted his ring finger attached for 10.000 $ or his middle finger for 60.000$. For me it´s obvious that this system sucks if the money goes before the patient´s life. It´s good that we treat patients first and then care about the financials. I´d rather be solidaric and would be willing to pay for my countrymen who are in need rather than beeing an egoistic nut.

The list of possible diseases that made you ineligible for an insurance freaked me out too. Here you have an insurance no matter what disease you have or may have had. That the insurance companies deny you their services because you had one of the trillion diseases and that they even tried to gain at the expense of the sick really stunned me.

20% of Austrians find our Health-care system "very good", 62% "good", 11% neither good or bad and just 5% "bad" and 2% "very bad" - a proof of confidence.

I know our system too has its flaws like every system does, but at least noone needs to make a movie about it and it´s certainly not regarded as "Evil Socialized System" ...

What is the waiting list to see a specialist?

[Tender Branson]

I saw the movie and I appreciate the Austrian Social Security System even more. I mean it´s clear that he picked out the Horror-Stories, but I share the eyebrow-raising with the Canadian doctor when he was told about the American guy without insurance if he wanted his ring finger attached for 10.000 $ or his middle finger for 60.000$. For me it´s obvious that this system sucks if the money goes before the patient´s life. It´s good that we treat patients first and then care about the financials. I´d rather be solidaric and would be willing to pay for my countrymen who are in need rather than beeing an egoistic nut.

The list of possible diseases that made you ineligible for an insurance freaked me out too. Here you have an insurance no matter what disease you have or may have had. That the insurance companies deny you their services because you had one of the trillion diseases and that they even tried to gain at the expense of the sick really stunned me.

20% of Austrians find our Health-care system "very good", 62% "good", 11% neither good or bad and just 5% "bad" and 2% "very bad" - a proof of confidence.

I know our system too has its flaws like every system does, but at least noone needs to make a movie about it and it´s certainly not regarded as "Evil Socialized System" ...

What is the waiting list to see a specialist?

Depends on what "specialist" you mean I think and how many patients currently have an appointment with him/her. If I want to go to a skin doctor for example I can take just 1 day to get an appointment or up to a week or 2. The same with a dentist. If he has lots of clients it may take 2 weeks ... That doesn´t mean you don´t get an appointment if you have serious toothache. You normally get one within a day then. I can´t complain about long waiting periods and I´m certainly middle-class. On the other hand I never had to apply for a kidney-transplant, so I don´t know about that issue ...

[opebo]

I want to trash Micheal Moore and/or the concept of universal free health care. 

That yellow avatar looks unhealthy, perhaps you should seek medical advice.

Fine, but to be fair to you, I shall pay for the treatment all by myself.  Without your tax money.

No, you can't pay for anything all by yourself, MaC.  Your money is a privilege granted to you by your State-determined social position.

[Bono]

I saw the movie and I appreciate the Austrian Social Security System even more. I mean it´s clear that he picked out the Horror-Stories, but I share the eyebrow-raising with the Canadian doctor when he was told about the American guy without insurance if he wanted his ring finger attached for 10.000 $ or his middle finger for 60.000$. For me it´s obvious that this system sucks if the money goes before the patient´s life. It´s good that we treat patients first and then care about the financials. I´d rather be solidaric and would be willing to pay for my countrymen who are in need rather than beeing an egoistic nut.

The list of possible diseases that made you ineligible for an insurance freaked me out too. Here you have an insurance no matter what disease you have or may have had. That the insurance companies deny you their services because you had one of the trillion diseases and that they even tried to gain at the expense of the sick really stunned me.

20% of Austrians find our Health-care system "very good", 62% "good", 11% neither good or bad and just 5% "bad" and 2% "very bad" - a proof of confidence.

I know our system too has its flaws like every system does, but at least noone needs to make a movie about it and it´s certainly not regarded as "Evil Socialized System" ...

What is the waiting list to see a specialist?

Depends on what "specialist" you mean I think and how many patients currently have an appointment with him/her. If I want to go to a skin doctor for example I can take just 1 day to get an appointment or up to a week or 2. The same with a dentist. If he has lots of clients it may take 2 weeks ... That doesn´t mean you don´t get an appointment if you have serious toothache. You normally get one within a day then. I can´t complain about long waiting periods and I´m certainly middle-class. On the other hand I never had to apply for a kidney-transplant, so I don´t know about that issue ...

Is the Austrian system insurance based like Switzerland's, or based in a socialized provision like the UK and Portugal? If I use the state system here, I can count on at least a month's waiting to see a specialist, and that is not counting the wait to see my GP to get a referral, assuming he won't just dismiss my symptoms and tell me to take it easy.

[John Dibble]

Health care is a human right

at the expense of others.  'nuff said.

All human rights come to the expense of others. I don't understand your rebuttle.

No they don't. For instance, how does freedom of religious belief cost anyone anything? As far as I can tell it has no tangible costs.

[WalterMitty]

I want to trash Micheal Moore and/or the concept of universal free health care. 

That yellow avatar looks unhealthy, perhaps you should seek medical advice.

Fine, but to be fair to you, I shall pay for the treatment all by myself.  Without your tax money.

obviously the solution to the health care crisis is for everyone to get a job at mcdonalds.  then theyd have no problem paying for health care!

and by the way mac, why should the taxpayers of michigan help pay for your education?  since you are obviously opposed to these things.