The end of free soda refills in America

[Open Source Intelligence]

But we're the crazy ones for saying greed is fueling the affordability crisis.

Most of the cost tied up in a drink is in all the overhead, infrastructure, and service. The actual liquid is inexpensive. That's why you can get a 2-liter at the grocery cheaper than a 20 fluid ounce (about a half-liter) at the gas station: the inexpensiveness of the liquid means they can shift prices where they charge more for the 20 fluid ounce version because people are willing to pay more for it due to its greater portability compared to the 2-liter even though from a materials perspective the 2-liter being cheaper is ludicrous. And that's part of why Coca Cola and PepsiCo are filthy rich.

I've always thought from an environmental perspective the best thing you could do is sell the syrup directly to customers as they do to restaurants and gas stations and everyone makes their own soda with their water (be a higher-quality version of Kool-Aid, do kids still make Kool-Aid anymore?). You would get rid of the bottling plant expense and it would also get rid of all these single-use plastics. However, the reason that doesn't happen is it would probably kill these companies' profit margins.

I think this is more about general health of the restaurant business being poor instead of sodas. I feel like restaurants have never really recovered from Covid, and food price inflation for what they buy has hardly been great for them. Red Lobster for example are on the verge of bankruptcy and unexpectedly closed 80 franchise locations nationally on Monday with no warning.

[lfromnj]

But we're the crazy ones for saying greed is fueling the affordability crisis.

Most of the cost tied up in a drink is in all the overhead, infrastructure, and service. The actual liquid is inexpensive. That's why you can get a 2-liter at the grocery cheaper than a 20 fluid ounce (about a half-liter) at the gas station: the inexpensiveness of the liquid means they can shift prices where they charge more for the 20 fluid ounce version because people are willing to pay more for it due to its greater portability compared to the 2-liter even though from a materials perspective the 2-liter being cheaper is ludicrous. And that's part of why Coca Cola and PepsiCo are filthy rich.

I've always thought from an environmental perspective the best thing you could do is sell the syrup directly to customers as they do to restaurants and gas stations and everyone makes their own soda with their water (be a higher-quality version of Kool-Aid, do kids still make Kool-Aid anymore?). You would get rid of the bottling plant expense and it would also get rid of all these single-use plastics. However, the reason that doesn't happen is it would probably kill these companies' profit margins.

I think this is more about general health of the restaurant business being poor instead of sodas. I feel like restaurants have never really recovered from Covid, and food price inflation for what they buy has hardly been great for them. Red Lobster for example are on the verge of bankruptcy and unexpectedly closed 80 franchise locations nationally on Monday with no warning.

This was known for a while atleast? I remember them saying they lost a lot of money on the endless shrimp.

[DPKdebator]

Call me lame, but it’s probably a good thing if free refills are phased out.

[Stranger in a strange land]

If you're having a 20 oz soda you probably shouldn't be getting the free refill. The state shouldn't ban it, but that's not what's happening here.

[Open Source Intelligence]

If you're having a 20 oz soda you probably shouldn't be getting the free refill. The state shouldn't ban it, but that's not what's happening here.

Was talking about bottles and using the analogy of them to the cost of 2-liters to show that soda price is not based on quantity.

[Alcibiades]

I drink Diet Coke (so just chemicals instead of sugar or calories), but if I'm out watching a game or something at a sports bar with free refills, I probably wind up drinking 10 glasses over a few hours.  If you're just sipping on it, you lose count.

This is honestly an argument for drinking alcohol. Whatever its many health disadvantages, at least you can’t ‘lose count’ and ‘accidentally’ end up having ten beers in one sitting.

[DaleCooper]

Why does anyone waste money on this crap anyway? Real restaurants are frequently cheaper than fast food now. Plus the quality has been getting worse.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why does anyone waste money on this crap anyway? Real restaurants are frequently cheaper than fast food now. Plus the quality has been getting worse.

To door dash food to the office if I don’t have time to make lunch for the day.

Also no real restaurants aren’t really cheaper . Ordering from Mod Pizza , a Baja Fresh is cheaper

[Morning in Atlas]

Why does anyone waste money on this crap anyway? Real restaurants are frequently cheaper than fast food now. Plus the quality has been getting worse.

And this is the crux of why the fast food industry is dying, and what they don't understand. Why am I going to go to Wendy's when I can just go to my local pizza shop and grab a few slices for cheaper? Why grab spicy nuggets from Wendy's when I can get real buffalo chicken for the same price? What do I lose? Soggy ass fries that I barely eat anyway?

It's more price-gouging from the one restaurant that has been most known for it.

[DaleCooper]

Why does anyone waste money on this crap anyway? Real restaurants are frequently cheaper than fast food now. Plus the quality has been getting worse.

To door dash food to the office if I don’t have time to make lunch for the day.

Also no real restaurants aren’t really cheaper . Ordering from Mod Pizza , a Baja Fresh is cheaper

I don't know what you're talking about. Where I'm at, terrible food from a big fast food chain is about as expensive as food from a real restaurant, though obviously not a fancy one. Door Dash adds close to 10 bucks per order. Definitely stop doing that.

[Morning in Atlas]

But we're the crazy ones for saying greed is fueling the affordability crisis.

Most of the cost tied up in a drink is in all the overhead, infrastructure, and service. The actual liquid is inexpensive. That's why you can get a 2-liter at the grocery cheaper than a 20 fluid ounce (about a half-liter) at the gas station: the inexpensiveness of the liquid means they can shift prices where they charge more for the 20 fluid ounce version because people are willing to pay more for it due to its greater portability compared to the 2-liter even though from a materials perspective the 2-liter being cheaper is ludicrous. And that's part of why Coca Cola and PepsiCo are filthy rich.

I've always thought from an environmental perspective the best thing you could do is sell the syrup directly to customers as they do to restaurants and gas stations and everyone makes their own soda with their water (be a higher-quality version of Kool-Aid, do kids still make Kool-Aid anymore?). You would get rid of the bottling plant expense and it would also get rid of all these single-use plastics. However, the reason that doesn't happen is it would probably kill these companies' profit margins.

I think this is more about general health of the restaurant business being poor instead of sodas. I feel like restaurants have never really recovered from Covid, and food price inflation for what they buy has hardly been great for them. Red Lobster for example are on the verge of bankruptcy and unexpectedly closed 80 franchise locations nationally on Monday with no warning.

Less about drinks. True, there are legitimate issues in the restaurant industry - especially fast food. Inflation is real. Supply chain is real. Demand from the rise of DoorDash is real. Rising wages are real. There are real factors contributing to the rise of prices.

That doesn't explain why the McChicken I ordered when I was blasted in college is now almost 4 times as much as it was before. That doesn't explain why McDonald's has doubled their average prices. That's not inflation - that's price gouging.

[DaleCooper]

But we're the crazy ones for saying greed is fueling the affordability crisis.

Most of the cost tied up in a drink is in all the overhead, infrastructure, and service. The actual liquid is inexpensive. That's why you can get a 2-liter at the grocery cheaper than a 20 fluid ounce (about a half-liter) at the gas station: the inexpensiveness of the liquid means they can shift prices where they charge more for the 20 fluid ounce version because people are willing to pay more for it due to its greater portability compared to the 2-liter even though from a materials perspective the 2-liter being cheaper is ludicrous. And that's part of why Coca Cola and PepsiCo are filthy rich.

I've always thought from an environmental perspective the best thing you could do is sell the syrup directly to customers as they do to restaurants and gas stations and everyone makes their own soda with their water (be a higher-quality version of Kool-Aid, do kids still make Kool-Aid anymore?). You would get rid of the bottling plant expense and it would also get rid of all these single-use plastics. However, the reason that doesn't happen is it would probably kill these companies' profit margins.

I think this is more about general health of the restaurant business being poor instead of sodas. I feel like restaurants have never really recovered from Covid, and food price inflation for what they buy has hardly been great for them. Red Lobster for example are on the verge of bankruptcy and unexpectedly closed 80 franchise locations nationally on Monday with no warning.

Less about drinks. True, there are legitimate issues in the restaurant industry - especially fast food. Inflation is real. Supply chain is real. Demand from the rise of DoorDash is real. Rising wages are real. There are real factors contributing to the rise of prices.

That doesn't explain why the McChicken I ordered when I was blasted in college is now almost 4 times as much as it was before. That doesn't explain why McDonald's has doubled their average prices. That's not inflation - that's price gouging.

And the food sucks. Higher-end fast food like Chipotle, Culver's, or Chick fil-A seem to have kept their reputations mostly intact despite all the price increases. The McChicken you order now is 4 times more expensive, smaller, and it tastes worse than used to.  

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why does anyone waste money on this crap anyway? Real restaurants are frequently cheaper than fast food now. Plus the quality has been getting worse.

To door dash food to the office if I don’t have time to make lunch for the day.

Also no real restaurants aren’t really cheaper . Ordering from Mod Pizza , a Baja Fresh is cheaper

I don't know what you're talking about. Where I'm at, terrible food from a big fast food chain is about as expensive as food from a real restaurant, though obviously not a fancy one. Door Dash adds close to 10 bucks per order. Definitely stop doing that.

I mainly just use door dash during busy season as I dont have the time to drive to a nearby place, order food and eat it but now I do so I dont use door dash anymore.

Anyway I would say another problem with fast food is the aesthetics are all extremely bland these days and stuff like the McDonalds play area no longer exists. Back in those days, it was actually fun to go to fast food as a kid while these days it definitely is not. Everything has shifted to being focused on take out that the fun of dining in those places is completely gone. Like take a look at these photos:



https://www.reddit.com/r/90s/comments/ul5hgv/fast_food_photos_90s_vs_now/

[Open Source Intelligence]

That doesn't explain why the McChicken I ordered when I was blasted in college is now almost 4 times as much as it was before. That doesn't explain why McDonald's has doubled their average prices. That's not inflation - that's price gouging.

That McDonald's used to pay $6/hour and now they're having to advertise for workers at $15/hour. And they're still understaffed.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I was very surprised by how ingrained the culture of free refills of non-water beverages is when I visited a friend in Indiana last year. I was especially confused that one wouldn't just order the smallest size of something if the actual amount of it one gets is arbitrary no matter what. It's very stereotypically Middle American to be on the second page of this thread, despite DrScholl's characteristically nasty and bigoted way of saying so.

[SInNYC]

I wonder how much of this is due to coke/pepsi raising prices. The price of coke at the grocery store has exploded in 2024, and I assume the price of syrup has gone up comparably. The Coke CEO all but said that they were going to raise prices annually as long as the market bears it (coke profits and executive salaries have also exploded).

Coke seems to raise their prices every Jan 01. As someone who drinks way too much soda, I know the prices well. In 2022, my local supermarket had sales on coke every other week (alternating with Pepsi), typically 5 2 liter bottles for $5, no limit. In 2023, it was 5 for $7, with a limit of 5 ($9/5 if more). In 2024, Coke seems to have stopped sales all together, so its $6.80/3 (due to the buy 2 get 1 free permanent offer). This is a 140% increase in <2 years.  Pepsi still has occasional sales this year, but I think they will watch Coke's lead and go up if the demand doesnt drop too much.

I'm assuming the above prices are based on deals that Coke offers to the supermarket, since other supermarkets have comparable raises.

[7,052,770]

I got 3 free refills at lunch today, enjoying them while I still can. What a sad fate for America. It's already pretty pathetic that these fast corporations charge $2 or $3 for something that costs them a few cents, but now they want to charge again for every cupfull!

[7,052,770]

I was very surprised by how ingrained the culture of free refills of non-water beverages is when I visited a friend in Indiana last year. I was especially confused that one wouldn't just order the smallest size of something if the actual amount of it one gets is arbitrary no matter what. It's very stereotypically Middle American to be on the second page of this thread, despite DrScholl's characteristically nasty and bigoted way of saying so.

You raise a good point about cup sizes. I always go for the small size for costefficiency, but a lot of people just don't want to walk to the drink machine so many times.

[Edu]

Free soda refills...lol

You raise a good point about cup sizes. I always go for the small size for costefficiency, but a lot of people just don't want to walk to the drink machine so many times.

How much Coca-Cola are you gorging on that you have to take several trips to the refill station? lmao

[Joe Republic]

Free soda refills...lol

Some Americans would sooner give up their guns and bibles than their bottomless buckets of ice and syrup-water.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

McDonalds is still super-cheap if you make efficient use of their deals and coupons in their app.

[Thank you for being a friend...]

Last week, I read that they were very concerned about how their customers were upset about the prices increasing... and this week they're going after soda refills... Do they not get it?  It's like they totally missed the point of their research.

Fast food is not supposed to be $17 plus tax.  It's good but it ain't that good.

Things were much much better in the 90s - the food was better, going there in person was a better experience, the prices were better... so yes this is an outrage (and I say this because I am a regular fast food customer).

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Free soda refills...lol

Some Americans would sooner give up their guns and bibles than their bottomless buckets of ice and syrup-water.

I'd love to get rid of all the guns and bibles, but ubiquitous ice is what we truly fought the revolution for.

[DaleCooper]

Why does anyone waste money on this crap anyway? Real restaurants are frequently cheaper than fast food now. Plus the quality has been getting worse.

To door dash food to the office if I don’t have time to make lunch for the day.

Also no real restaurants aren’t really cheaper . Ordering from Mod Pizza , a Baja Fresh is cheaper

I don't know what you're talking about. Where I'm at, terrible food from a big fast food chain is about as expensive as food from a real restaurant, though obviously not a fancy one. Door Dash adds close to 10 bucks per order. Definitely stop doing that.

I mainly just use door dash during busy season as I dont have the time to drive to a nearby place, order food and eat it but now I do so I dont use door dash anymore.

Anyway I would say another problem with fast food is the aesthetics are all extremely bland these days and stuff like the McDonalds play area no longer exists. Back in those days, it was actually fun to go to fast food as a kid while these days it definitely is not. Everything has shifted to being focused on take out that the fun of dining in those places is completely gone. Like take a look at these photos:

[picture]

The aesthetic is bad, but I think a bigger part of it is that fast food became synonymous with filthiness and food poisoning and disgusting interiors. It didn't always used to be that way. It seems like at some point maybe in the early-mid 2000s this became a bigger issue and then got worse as the years went on.

I suspect that places like McDonald's and the other big chains decided that they were too big to fail and stopped caring about quality. The ingredients had been getting sh-ttier too. Of course it's a totally dead-end job and a miserable place to work, so that also led to worse quality at most locations. Now they're suffering the consequences of that.

I brought up the "premium" fast food places earlier, like Culver's for example (barely more expensive than McDonald's or Wendy's by the way), and that's very much still a place that people would enjoy going into and having lunch together as friends or family. I can't image anyone doing such a thing in a KFC these days, lol.

[7,052,770]

I was very surprised by how ingrained the culture of free refills of non-water beverages is when I visited a friend in Indiana last year. I was especially confused that one wouldn't just order the smallest size of something if the actual amount of it one gets is arbitrary no matter what. It's very stereotypically Middle American to be on the second page of this thread, despite DrScholl's characteristically nasty and bigoted way of saying so.

You raise a good point about cup sizes. I always go for the small size for costefficiency, but a lot of people just don't want to walk to the drink machine so many times.

I thought of another reason to get the bigger size - if you're planning to get a refill to go, you may want to take more with you. I don't do this though - I have to draw the line somewhere