UK Election 2010

[bullmoose88]

I'm guessing this is a really dumb question, but it just popped into my mind so forgive me if its been asked or dealt with...

When everyone's calculated the number of seats required to form a majority government (or for Labour to retain such), are we including the Sinn Fein seats in the denominator?  Ie 650 includes the 5 or so seats they win but refuse to take the oath for etc...

[Хahar 🤔]

I'm guessing this is a really dumb question, but it just popped into my mind so forgive me if its been asked or dealt with...

When everyone's calculated the number of seats required to form a majority government (or for Labour to retain such), are we including the Sinn Fein seats in the denominator?  Ie 650 includes the 5 or so seats they win but refuse to take the oath for etc...

It hardly matters, as a majority that needed the abstentionists to abstain would be so tenuous it would really be no majority at all.

[Јas]

I'm guessing this is a really dumb question, but it just popped into my mind so forgive me if its been asked or dealt with...

When everyone's calculated the number of seats required to form a majority government (or for Labour to retain such), are we including the Sinn Fein seats in the denominator?  Ie 650 includes the 5 or so seats they win but refuse to take the oath for etc...

No, you're quite right - the calculations don't normally take SF abstentionists into account.

[Yamor]

The figure 326 being mentioned by the media as what's needed for a majority, of course does not take into account the seats SF will win.


You could also ask about the speaker and deputies - however, they are taken into account by most of the media by considering the speaker to be a Conservative. This is because the 3 deputies will comprise of 2 Labour and 1 Conservative members, so their numbers, together with the speaker, will cancel out.

For example, if the Conservatives are said to have won 326 seats, they'll only really have won 325, and after subtracting the Conservative deputy speaker, it'll be 324. Labour and the rest will have won 324 seats (2 less then the 326 of the Conservatives), and after subtracting the two Labour deputy speakers, it'll be 322.
As you see, counting the speaker as a Conservative maintains the majority of 2 for the Conservatives without confusing everyone.

[Nichlemn]

I'm guessing this is a really dumb question, but it just popped into my mind so forgive me if its been asked or dealt with...

When everyone's calculated the number of seats required to form a majority government (or for Labour to retain such), are we including the Sinn Fein seats in the denominator?  Ie 650 includes the 5 or so seats they win but refuse to take the oath for etc...

It hardly matters, as a majority that needed the abstentionists to abstain would be so tenuous it would really be no majority at all.

But what if they won a small minority that you would define as "really no majority at all"? Then, the abstentionists could bolster into the "comfortable" territory.

[hawkeye59]

I have a (kind of stupid) question. What if it's a tie in Parliament?

[Verily]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_February_1974
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_October_1974

Note on Feb 1974: Lab + Ind. Lab + Dem. Lab. + SDLP = Con + UUP.

[hawkeye59]

I meant a literal tie.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I meant a literal tie.

Speaker gets the casting vote.

[hawkeye59]

Which party is the Speaker?

[hawkeye59]

Which party is the Speaker?

Never mind. Cameron would become PM, since the Speaker is a former Conservative.

[You kip if you want to...]

Which party is the Speaker?

The Speaker always stands as an Independant, but he was a Tory until he was elected Speaker.

[Silent Hunter]

Which party is the Speaker?

None. He or she resigns from their party on election.

[You kip if you want to...]

The focus on the wives is so annoying, although I find Miriam Clegg's approach of literally ignoring the press when they approach her, rather funny.

[Yamor]

Which party is the Speaker?

Your original question was a bit ambiguous - did you mean that the Conservatives get 325 seats and the rest together get 325 seats? In that case Cameron would definitely be prime minister, however it'd be termed a minority government unless he forms a coalition.

If you meant what would happen if Labour and the Conservatives would win the same amount of seats each, then Brown would get the chance to form a government if he wants to (this would actually theoretically even be true in the above case of the Conservatives winning 325 seats - basically if noone wins an overall majority, then the incumbent has the chance to try and form a government), and if he can't, or doesn't want to, then Cameron would get his chance.

Concerning your question about the speaker, there are fixed rules regarding what he has to do in cases of a tie, which basically says that he has to vote to keep the status quo, so in a confidence motion, he'd vote to keep confidence in the government.

[Хahar 🤔]

There can be no tie in the sense that there could be in an American legislature.

[Phony Moderate]

If Clegg does well in the debates, and the Lib Dems get a bump in the polls, it will be interesting to see if it will hurt Labour or the Tories more.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I'm on News Media lockdown at the moment.

If anyone is interested... (doubt it)...

[Phony Moderate]

Roy Sandison is standing as the first ever (i think) Green Party Candidate in my constituency of Rugby, and he also happens to be a friend of my dad. So yeah.

[k-onmmunist]

Roy Sandison is standing as the first ever (i think) Green Party Candidate in my constituency of Rugby, and he also happens to be a friend of my dad. So yeah.

Yay! I was born in Rugby

I live in Hazel Grove though, and the first, last and only time we had a Green candidate was in 1987

[bullmoose88]

Which party is the Speaker?

Your original question was a bit ambiguous - did you mean that the Conservatives get 325 seats and the rest together get 325 seats? In that case Cameron would definitely be prime minister, however it'd be termed a minority government unless he forms a coalition.

If you meant what would happen if Labour and the Conservatives would win the same amount of seats each, then Brown would get the chance to form a government if he wants to (this would actually theoretically even be true in the above case of the Conservatives winning 325 seats - basically if noone wins an overall majority, then the incumbent has the chance to try and form a government), and if he can't, or doesn't want to, then Cameron would get his chance.

Concerning your question about the speaker, there are fixed rules regarding what he has to do in cases of a tie, which basically says that he has to vote to keep the status quo, so in a confidence motion, he'd vote to keep confidence in the government.

I've heard the rule as, the speaker shall not vote to create a majority where there is none.

[Verily]

If Clegg does well in the debates, and the Lib Dems get a bump in the polls, it will be interesting to see if it will hurt Labour or the Tories more.

Presumably, this depends on who does poorly in the debates (at least, if the primary reason for this hypothetical LD strength is Clegg's performance at the debates).

[Verily]

I meant a literal tie.

There would never be a tie for PM. There are too many parties willing to support either side (the LDs, the SNP, the DUP, possibly Dr. Taylor if he's reelected) who would switch.

[Yamor]

Which party is the Speaker?

Your original question was a bit ambiguous - did you mean that the Conservatives get 325 seats and the rest together get 325 seats? In that case Cameron would definitely be prime minister, however it'd be termed a minority government unless he forms a coalition.

If you meant what would happen if Labour and the Conservatives would win the same amount of seats each, then Brown would get the chance to form a government if he wants to (this would actually theoretically even be true in the above case of the Conservatives winning 325 seats - basically if noone wins an overall majority, then the incumbent has the chance to try and form a government), and if he can't, or doesn't want to, then Cameron would get his chance.

Concerning your question about the speaker, there are fixed rules regarding what he has to do in cases of a tie, which basically says that he has to vote to keep the status quo, so in a confidence motion, he'd vote to keep confidence in the government.

I've heard the rule as, the speaker shall not vote to create a majority where there is none.

Nope, that's definitely incorrect. He votes to keep the status quo, and to allow there to be more debate if possible.

[Peter]

Please see Speaker Denison's Rules regarding any action on a tie.