Rabbi urges Jewish students at Columbia to leave campus

[jojoju1998]

I am a Zionist, and deeply disagree with these protesters.  That said, does it not bother anyone outside the protest movement that the police and government officials are being a bit heavy-handed with them?  They have been overwhelmingly peaceful so far, so there is no reason for the gestapo-approach.  Unless you think the First Amendment is as 'outdated' as the 14th and the 2nd amendments.

This is definitely not a gestapo approach, but I would say that the only place where the police has been heavy-handed is Texas. These protestors are taking an occupation approach rife with harassment of their fellow students and are breaking plenty of laws. Penn seems to be taking the most professional, efficient response to them.

Throughout history students have 'occupied' their own campuses, numerous alumni have been talking about how they've had similar tents and areas of the campus for protests in the past and never been treated like this.

And to believe that the harassment here hasn't come from the police in a large amount of scenarios... Well, I suppose that's a bit of a lost cause on you right now considering y'all are cheering on their provocations. I watched cops in Ohio last night shove a news lady while they gave protesters 5 seconds to 'disperse' and then started beating on them. At the end the cops all stood around when it was over, laughing and punching the air... Our country is diseased.

Counterpoint : It's because relatively in the last 20-30 years, protests haven't gotten this heated before ?

I mean, the last time things got really heated was the Vietnam War era, and that was 56 years ago.


We also have to take into account the rise of social media, the overall political polarization,

[Brittain33]

Joe Biden has condemned these protests

The emperor has no clothes. Pro-Israel Democrats are the last people in America to realize this.

Help me understand. I’m more supportive of Biden than ever.

The grassroots and future of the Dems are not pro Israel anymore, biden is a figurehead and dos not truly lead the party, his support is good for now due to military aid but the future of Dems and Israel is fraught

Got it. Well, he doesn’t feel like a figurehead to me and the bulk of the Dem party is behind him. When this future arrives for the Dems (and maybe it will), I’ll make up my mind then but for now the Republicans are completely unacceptable on most issues INCLUDING Israel where I prefer Biden’s approach.

[Brittain33]

BTW, I disagree that the grassroots are with Rashida Tlaib and the tent cities on this but I can read the cards on generational change.

I’m pretty old but am still younger than the median voter who is in their 50s.

[Horus]

Joe Biden has condemned these protests

The emperor has no clothes. Pro-Israel Democrats are the last people in America to realize this.

Help me understand. I’m more supportive of Biden than ever.

The grassroots and future of the Dems are not pro Israel anymore, biden is a figurehead and dos not truly lead the party, his support is good for now due to military aid but the future of Dems and Israel is fraught

Got it. Well, he doesn’t feel like a figurehead to me and the bulk of the Dem party is behind him. When this future arrives for the Dems (and maybe it will), I’ll make up my mind then but for now the Republicans are completely unacceptable on most issues INCLUDING Israel where I prefer Biden’s approach.

Why does Israel play such a large role in your decision making process? Biden could go the Fetterman route and I'd still back him, because the GOP is just that bad. You'd really be willing to throw away stuff like universal healthcare over a candidate's position on Israel?

[Brittain33]

Joe Biden has condemned these protests

The emperor has no clothes. Pro-Israel Democrats are the last people in America to realize this.

Help me understand. I’m more supportive of Biden than ever.

The grassroots and future of the Dems are not pro Israel anymore, biden is a figurehead and dos not truly lead the party, his support is good for now due to military aid but the future of Dems and Israel is fraught

Got it. Well, he doesn’t feel like a figurehead to me and the bulk of the Dem party is behind him. When this future arrives for the Dems (and maybe it will), I’ll make up my mind then but for now the Republicans are completely unacceptable on most issues INCLUDING Israel where I prefer Biden’s approach.

Why does Israel play such a large role in your decision making process? Biden could go the Fetterman route and I'd still back him, because the GOP is just that bad. You'd really be willing to throw away stuff like universal healthcare over a candidate's position on Israel?

You’re reading something into my post I didn’t say and I’m not even sure what it is. If Biden said “everyone in Israel should go back to Brooklyn and Poland, Free, Free Palestine” I’d be confused as f*** but I’d probably still vote for him while being really confused because that’s not who Biden is. I don’t know what hypothetical you’re envisioning. If Biden started viciously attacking Netanyahu and cut off all aid until he stopped the war as of now I’d probably be applauding because Netanyahu is an enemy of peace. I’ve hated him since he decided to campaign against Obama.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This brings up a question I have seen come up occasionally on this forum, and seems especially timely: where do Jewish voters go now?  On pretty much any other issue, they can be counted on to be stalwart Democrats, but with the party likely to become more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause as newer generations replace their elders (and perhaps with a greater Muslim influence), where does that leave the Jewish electorate?

We stay in the Democratic Party.  The grown ups basically run the show there and the lunatics are largely confined to the fringes.  The Republican Party is a cryptofascist pro-dictatorship cult that has forsaken God in favor of worshiping at the alter of a fire-breathing anti-Semite who things Neo-Nazi thugs are “very fine people.”  Moreover, even before the Trump takeover the Republican Party was largely antithetical to the values of Reform Judaism (and has only become more so in the years since).

[heatcharger]

Joe Biden has condemned these protests

The emperor has no clothes. Pro-Israel Democrats are the last people in America to realize this.

Help me understand. I’m more supportive of Biden than ever.

Biden is an invisible president. What he says has such little impact it’s hardly worth talking about. In a way this is the fault of his voters, who elected him as an anti-TRUMP. Sadly when you aren’t elected on your merits and elected as a reaction to the previous administration you get the situation we have now.

He’s an 81 year old man with practically nothing left in the tank. If he’s personally doing anything to alleviate the Conflict it sure doesn’t seem like it. Everywhere around the world tensions are rising and disagreements are turning into armed conflicts. 6 months after October 7th and Biden has nothing to show for progress. And since he’s so old he’s outsourced foreign policy to people below him. But not even Democrats could say Blinken has handled the Middle East well.

His official statements are obvious attempts at triangulation. His actions in the Middle East have done nothing to make pro-Palestine activists at home think about something else.

[Storr]

Joe Biden has condemned these protests

The emperor has no clothes. Pro-Israel Democrats are the last people in America to realize this.

Help me understand. I’m more supportive of Biden than ever.

Biden is an invisible president. What he says has such little impact it’s hardly worth talking about. In a way this is the fault of his voters, who elected him as an anti-TRUMP. Sadly when you aren’t elected on your merits and elected as a reaction to the previous administration you get the situation we have now.

He’s an 81 year old man with practically nothing left in the tank. If he’s personally doing anything to alleviate the Conflict it sure doesn’t seem like it. Everywhere around the world tensions are rising and disagreements are turning into armed conflicts. 6 months after October 7th and Biden has nothing to show for progress. And since he’s so old he’s outsourced foreign policy to people below him. But not even Democrats could say Blinken has handled the Middle East well.

His official statements are obvious attempts at triangulation. His actions in the Middle East have done nothing to make pro-Palestine activists at home think about something else.

I'd much rather Biden's mixed bag Israel-Gaza policy to Trump's "Netanyahu needs to finish the job" policy.

[Brittain33]

Joe Biden has condemned these protests

The emperor has no clothes. Pro-Israel Democrats are the last people in America to realize this.

Help me understand. I’m more supportive of Biden than ever.

Biden is an invisible president. What he says has such little impact it’s hardly worth talking about. In a way this is the fault of his voters, who elected him as an anti-TRUMP. Sadly when you aren’t elected on your merits and elected as a reaction to the previous administration you get the situation we have now.

He’s an 81 year old man with practically nothing left in the tank. If he’s personally doing anything to alleviate the Conflict it sure doesn’t seem like it. Everywhere around the world tensions are rising and disagreements are turning into armed conflicts. 6 months after October 7th and Biden has nothing to show for progress. And since he’s so old he’s outsourced foreign policy to people below him. But not even Democrats could say Blinken has handled the Middle East well.

His official statements are obvious attempts at triangulation. His actions in the Middle East have done nothing to make pro-Palestine activists at home think about something else.

That’s a lot of words but the fact remains the federal government’s policies on Israel look a lot closer to what Biden has been saying than to what even the moderate members of the Squad have been saying. If my supporting Biden means I’m really supporting words the secret powers make him say, ok, well I’m fine with that too.

[heatcharger]

Joe Biden has condemned these protests

The emperor has no clothes. Pro-Israel Democrats are the last people in America to realize this.

Help me understand. I’m more supportive of Biden than ever.

Biden is an invisible president. What he says has such little impact it’s hardly worth talking about. In a way this is the fault of his voters, who elected him as an anti-TRUMP. Sadly when you aren’t elected on your merits and elected as a reaction to the previous administration you get the situation we have now.

He’s an 81 year old man with practically nothing left in the tank. If he’s personally doing anything to alleviate the Conflict it sure doesn’t seem like it. Everywhere around the world tensions are rising and disagreements are turning into armed conflicts. 6 months after October 7th and Biden has nothing to show for progress. And since he’s so old he’s outsourced foreign policy to people below him. But not even Democrats could say Blinken has handled the Middle East well.

His official statements are obvious attempts at triangulation. His actions in the Middle East have done nothing to make pro-Palestine activists at home think about something else.

I'd much rather Biden's mixed bag Israel-Gaza policy to Trump's "Netanyahu needs to finish the job" policy.

Deep down a lot of liberals would prefer Netanyahu “finish the job”. They’re just too afraid to say it.

Nobody can really define what Biden’s Israel policy is because it’s not really Biden’s Israel policy. A few weeks ago he “called for a ceasefire” — meanwhile, Netanyahu is saying America is Germany in 1938.

Nobody thinks we’re gonna see a long-lasting ceasefire before the election.

[quesaisje]

I am a Zionist, and deeply disagree with these protesters.  That said, does it not bother anyone outside the protest movement that the police and government officials are being a bit heavy-handed with them?  They have been overwhelmingly peaceful so far, so there is no reason for the gestapo-approach unless intimidation is the intention.  

I talked with someone who was active in Occupy about this, and they blamed the protestors for not sticking to the passive resistance playbook. We watched clips of a few confrontations and they called out details like protesters shoving cops or throwing objects at them instead of sticking to tactics like going limp and using their body mass as weight.

They viewed this as less an organizational problem and more a reflection of the typical protestor's state of mind. They said they could see a different level of anger in their eyes. I think I know what they mean by that, and, in some cases (Texas is the one that I'm thinking of), I see it in how the cops are behaving as well. I can't say that I've seen any videos of the NYPD getting to that level, but they're the top department in the country. I would expect everyone else to be worse.

I mention all of this because it frightens me. This isn't like the chaos that we saw in the summer if 2020. It just looks like people who have realized that they are not, in any meaningful sense, on the same side. Where can we possibly go from here?

[heatcharger]

Joe Biden has condemned these protests

The emperor has no clothes. Pro-Israel Democrats are the last people in America to realize this.

Help me understand. I’m more supportive of Biden than ever.

Biden is an invisible president. What he says has such little impact it’s hardly worth talking about. In a way this is the fault of his voters, who elected him as an anti-TRUMP. Sadly when you aren’t elected on your merits and elected as a reaction to the previous administration you get the situation we have now.

He’s an 81 year old man with practically nothing left in the tank. If he’s personally doing anything to alleviate the Conflict it sure doesn’t seem like it. Everywhere around the world tensions are rising and disagreements are turning into armed conflicts. 6 months after October 7th and Biden has nothing to show for progress. And since he’s so old he’s outsourced foreign policy to people below him. But not even Democrats could say Blinken has handled the Middle East well.

His official statements are obvious attempts at triangulation. His actions in the Middle East have done nothing to make pro-Palestine activists at home think about something else.

That’s a lot of words but the fact remains the federal government’s policies on Israel look a lot closer to what Biden has been saying than to what even the moderate members of the Squad have been saying. If my supporting Biden means I’m really supporting words the secret powers make him say, ok, well I’m fine with that too.

Understandable. The flip side is most people at home think Biden isn’t leading the country at all. That’s a quality people want when choosing a president.

[Brittain33]

Joe Biden has condemned these protests

The emperor has no clothes. Pro-Israel Democrats are the last people in America to realize this.

Help me understand. I’m more supportive of Biden than ever.

Biden is an invisible president. What he says has such little impact it’s hardly worth talking about. In a way this is the fault of his voters, who elected him as an anti-TRUMP. Sadly when you aren’t elected on your merits and elected as a reaction to the previous administration you get the situation we have now.

He’s an 81 year old man with practically nothing left in the tank. If he’s personally doing anything to alleviate the Conflict it sure doesn’t seem like it. Everywhere around the world tensions are rising and disagreements are turning into armed conflicts. 6 months after October 7th and Biden has nothing to show for progress. And since he’s so old he’s outsourced foreign policy to people below him. But not even Democrats could say Blinken has handled the Middle East well.

His official statements are obvious attempts at triangulation. His actions in the Middle East have done nothing to make pro-Palestine activists at home think about something else.

That’s a lot of words but the fact remains the federal government’s policies on Israel look a lot closer to what Biden has been saying than to what even the moderate members of the Squad have been saying. If my supporting Biden means I’m really supporting words the secret powers make him say, ok, well I’m fine with that too.

Understandable. The flip side is most people at home think Biden isn’t leading the country at all. That’s a quality people want when choosing a president.

I don’t think that’s “most people”, I think that’s a common belief among Republicans and that Democrats who express reservations about Biden’s age aren’t buying into that particular story.

[Dan the Roman]

I am a Zionist, and deeply disagree with these protesters.  That said, does it not bother anyone outside the protest movement that the police and government officials are being a bit heavy-handed with them?  They have been overwhelmingly peaceful so far, so there is no reason for the gestapo-approach unless intimidation is the intention.  

I talked with someone who was active in Occupy about this, and they blamed the protestors for not sticking to the passive resistance playbook. We watched clips of a few confrontations and they called out details like protesters shoving cops or throwing objects at them instead of sticking to tactics like going limp and using their body mass as weight.

They viewed this as less an organizational problem and more a reflection of the typical protestor's state of mind. They said they could see a different level of anger in their eyes. I think I know what they mean by that, and, in some cases (Texas is the one that I'm thinking of), I see it in how the cops are behaving as well. I can't say that I've seen any videos of the NYPD getting to that level, but they're the top department in the country. I would expect everyone else to be worse.

I mention all of this because it frightens me. This isn't like the chaos that we saw in the summer if 2020. It just looks like people who have realized that they are not, in any meaningful sense, on the same side. Where can we possibly go from here?

 There is a class element. These kids at Columbia and elsewhere cannot help but give the impression they sneer and look down at the uneducated,  dumb, police officers who are now subject to abusive language and interpersonal violence from rich brats who will end expecting the police to their personal praetorian guard once they start at BCG next year.

These aren't community College kids. It's no coincidence the most brutal clashes have been at Emerson, USC and Columbia.

The police don't want to be there doing the jobs of rich administrators who will go back to calling them racist pigs after.

Actually surprised they haven't refused to go in. Let the university admins stew.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Taking A Toddler From The Playground

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6RnhuGJwO8/

Public relations nightmare for Palestinians.

[ingemann]

Taking A Toddler From The Playground

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6RnhuGJwO8/

Public relations nightmare for Palestinians.

Write what the link is about, when it link to a video clip.

[MyLifeIsYours]

This brings up a question I have seen come up occasionally on this forum, and seems especially timely: where do Jewish voters go now?  On pretty much any other issue, they can be counted on to be stalwart Democrats, but with the party likely to become more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause as newer generations replace their elders (and perhaps with a greater Muslim influence), where does that leave the Jewish electorate?

It will continue to be a strong constituency of the Democratic Party base. Younger Jewish people are the same as other ethnicities, being more in favor of Palestinians than Israelias. Groups such as Jewish Voices for Peace have shown there's a great resistance towards Israel that has been fostered upon them by others in the Jewish community. The type of Jewish person who would switch to Republicans because of Israel/Palestine have likely switch party afillation years back.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This brings up a question I have seen come up occasionally on this forum, and seems especially timely: where do Jewish voters go now?  On pretty much any other issue, they can be counted on to be stalwart Democrats, but with the party likely to become more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause as newer generations replace their elders (and perhaps with a greater Muslim influence), where does that leave the Jewish electorate?

It will continue to be a strong constituency of the Democratic Party base. Younger Jewish people are the same as other ethnicities, being more in favor of Palestinians than Israelias. Groups such as Jewish Voices for Peace have shown there's a great resistance towards Israel that has been fostered upon them by others in the Jewish community.The type of Jewish person who would switch to Republicans because of Israel/Palestine have likely switch party afillation years back.

Re: the bolded bit: Imagine actually believing this

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

This brings up a question I have seen come up occasionally on this forum, and seems especially timely: where do Jewish voters go now?  On pretty much any other issue, they can be counted on to be stalwart Democrats, but with the party likely to become more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause as newer generations replace their elders (and perhaps with a greater Muslim influence), where does that leave the Jewish electorate?

It will continue to be a strong constituency of the Democratic Party base. Younger Jewish people are the same as other ethnicities, being more in favor of Palestinians than Israelias. Groups such as Jewish Voices for Peace have shown there's a great resistance towards Israel that has been fostered upon them by others in the Jewish community.The type of Jewish person who would switch to Republicans because of Israel/Palestine have likely switch party afillation years back.

Re: the bolded bit: Imagine actually believing this

Most people don't even know what JVP stands for, which is probably why they chose that name. It's fantastic bait for liberal Jews who are in fact very much for peace! Most likely have no idea that it's an eliminationist group that celebrated the 10/7 genocide, rejects a two-state solution, and is largely run by non-Jews.

[Brittain33]

Deep down a lot of liberals would prefer Netanyahu “finish the job”. They’re just too afraid to say it.

Not going to let this go by. I was appalled by Netanyahu before October 7, and that event has made me reevaluate my relationship with Israel but NOT to the extent that I think Netanyahu has any clue what he’s doing other than throwing a lot of bombs at the situation, nor have I lost my moral compass and sunk to Hamas’s level when it comes to how the people of Gaza should be treated. People with a “kill them all” mentality don’t become liberals in the first place.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Deep down a lot of liberals would prefer Netanyahu “finish the job”. They’re just too afraid to say it.

Not going to let this go by. I was appalled by Netanyahu before October 7, and that event has made me reevaluate my relationship with Israel but NOT to the extent that I think Netanyahu has any clue what he’s doing other than throwing a lot of bombs at the situation, nor have I lost my moral compass and sunk to Hamas’s level when it comes to how the people of Gaza should be treated. People with a “kill them all” mentality don’t become liberals in the first place.

 heatcharger is a troll.

[Brittain33]

Deep down a lot of liberals would prefer Netanyahu “finish the job”. They’re just too afraid to say it.

Not going to let this go by. I was appalled by Netanyahu before October 7, and that event has made me reevaluate my relationship with Israel but NOT to the extent that I think Netanyahu has any clue what he’s doing other than throwing a lot of bombs at the situation, nor have I lost my moral compass and sunk to Hamas’s level when it comes to how the people of Gaza should be treated. People with a “kill them all” mentality don’t become liberals in the first place.

 heatcharger is a troll.

Oh, thank you. I don’t read the forum reliably enough to pick up on these things but I see I’ve been trolled multiple times now.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Deep down a lot of liberals would prefer Netanyahu “finish the job”. They’re just too afraid to say it.

Not going to let this go by. I was appalled by Netanyahu before October 7, and that event has made me reevaluate my relationship with Israel but NOT to the extent that I think Netanyahu has any clue what he’s doing other than throwing a lot of bombs at the situation, nor have I lost my moral compass and sunk to Hamas’s level when it comes to how the people of Gaza should be treated. People with a “kill them all” mentality don’t become liberals in the first place.

 heatcharger is a troll.

Oh, thank you. I don’t read the forum reliably enough to pick up on these things but I see I’ve been trolled multiple times now.

Well being a troll and being sincere aren’t mutually exclusive. Generally the trolling is an expression of contempt.

[Horus]

This brings up a question I have seen come up occasionally on this forum, and seems especially timely: where do Jewish voters go now?  On pretty much any other issue, they can be counted on to be stalwart Democrats, but with the party likely to become more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause as newer generations replace their elders (and perhaps with a greater Muslim influence), where does that leave the Jewish electorate?

It will continue to be a strong constituency of the Democratic Party base. Younger Jewish people are the same as other ethnicities, being more in favor of Palestinians than Israelias. Groups such as Jewish Voices for Peace have shown there's a great resistance towards Israel that has been fostered upon them by others in the Jewish community.The type of Jewish person who would switch to Republicans because of Israel/Palestine have likely switch party afillation years back.

Re: the bolded bit: Imagine actually believing this

JVP can be a bit cringe. IfNotNow is excellent.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I am a Zionist, and deeply disagree with these protesters.  That said, does it not bother anyone outside the protest movement that the police and government officials are being a bit heavy-handed with them?  They have been overwhelmingly peaceful so far, so there is no reason for the gestapo-approach unless intimidation is the intention.  

> heavy handed

> gestapo style approach

Do you really think that arresting people for occupying private property is heavy handed?