What happened to the salience of feminism?

[darklordoftech]

An underrated aspect of 2020 is how Hollywood lost credibility in terms of leading social movements. Whether it was #MeToo, BLM or the general anti-Trump fervor the public no longer looks to Hollywood for moral leadership.

I don't see how opposition to Trump lost credibility.

[jojoju1998]

An underrated aspect of 2020 is how Hollywood lost credibility in terms of leading social movements. Whether it was #MeToo, BLM or the general anti-Trump fervor the public no longer looks to Hollywood for moral leadership.

I don't see how opposition to Trump lost credibility.

To some, not all, but some, it's the image of the rich wine track hollywood superstars, claiming all of these social rights while, hiding these secrets, as in the case of me too.

I disagree with parts of Beet’s post but overall he gave a decent synopsis of the feminist movement over the past 10 years.

An underrated aspect of 2020 is how Hollywood lost credibility in terms of leading social movements. Whether it was #MeToo, BLM or the general anti-Trump fervor the public no longer looks to Hollywood for moral leadership.

Pay attention to how few celebrities endorse for president this year.

I would argue that institutions as a whole are losing their credibility. Academia. Education. The Military. And even religion.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Nothing quite like a bunch of men having a good old chat about what went wrong with feminism is there, chaps?

Nothing like a pretentious Al post to remind you what topics you are and aren’t allowed to talk about.

Really hard for me to imagine how someone could post something like "men can't talk about feminism" unless you believe that men can't be feminists, which, lmao

[heatcharger]

I disagree with parts of Beet’s post but overall he gave a decent synopsis of the feminist movement over the past 10 years.

An underrated aspect of 2020 is how Hollywood lost credibility in terms of leading social movements. Whether it was #MeToo, BLM or the general anti-Trump fervor the public no longer looks to Hollywood for moral leadership.

Pay attention to how few celebrities endorse for president this year.

If Hollywood had any credibility in leading social movements, Trump wouldn't have been elected in the first place. Hollywood's been variably on the social back foot since the Fatty Arbuckle scandal.

Hollywood was much more organized in 2017-2020.

They flexed their media muscle pushing #MeToo into the mainstream. They got Time Person of the Year. They made a big impact on the discourse around Brett Kavanaugh, let alone Trump.

They turned BLM from a few small protests into a nationwide movement. Practically all of your favorite celebrities endorsed that. The Black Square movement was turbocharged by Hollywood.

In 2018 and 2020 they were huge donors and supporters of the Democratic Party. They helped focus the party on college-educated women, which is clearly paying dividends.

It’s hard not to see how activist Hollywood was 5 years ago. But backlash was coming. DeSantis is persona non-grata on this forum due to LGBT but the pushback to Disney didn’t come out of nowhere. And Hollywood has clearly toned it down.

[heatcharger]

Nothing quite like a bunch of men having a good old chat about what went wrong with feminism is there, chaps?

Nothing like a pretentious Al post to remind you what topics you are and aren’t allowed to talk about.

Really hard for me to imagine how someone could post something like "men can't talk about feminism" unless you believe that men can't be feminists, which, lmao

It’s actually this brand of liberalism that’s gone out of style.

You don’t hear much about “white male privilege” anymore. It turns out you can’t alienate everyone outside your demographic and expect to earn their support.

[heatcharger]

Public opinion going 100-to-1 for Johnny Depp in his defamation trial proved that #MeToo was dead.

This didn’t happen in a vacuum. After some high-profile activist failures (2006 Duke, 2013 Columbia, 2014 UVA) people were itching to flip the tables on them.

Amber Heard isn’t exactly a sympathetic figure either.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

I sidestepped the specifics of "overreaches" of feminism at first because I actually don't think there has been that much overreach from the movement.

But as long as Beet wants to cite the Depp-Heard trial, it's worth pointing out there was some pretty startling overreach in response to that specific trial. Not overreach by "feminism" (Crumpets is right - not really sure you can treat "feminism" as a singular united movement anymore) but certainly an overreach by feminists, including, yes, many male feminists. It was pretty gross seeing so many people treat it as a disaster for the movement that Heard be found responsible for abusive behavior - a pretty clear indication that either "power dynamics" made it impossible for Heard to be capable of inflicting abuse, or that her specific abusive behavior needed to be given a pass for the sake of the entire movement (or some thoughtless combination of both). It was an uncommon perspective, but definitely one I heard from multiple of my (highly academic/nonprofit progressive) friends make, as well as slants used by major news outlets who reported on the story.

So I wouldn't call it an "overreach of feminism" but it certainly showed some adherents in the movement were much more interested in strategy and maintenance of power than it was in any form of principle or justice.

[Devout Centrist]

An underrated aspect of 2020 is how Hollywood lost credibility in terms of leading social movements. Whether it was #MeToo, BLM or the general anti-Trump fervor the public no longer looks to Hollywood for moral leadership.

People have been saying this for decades, this is hardly new.

[heatcharger]

An underrated aspect of 2020 is how Hollywood lost credibility in terms of leading social movements. Whether it was #MeToo, BLM or the general anti-Trump fervor the public no longer looks to Hollywood for moral leadership.

People have been saying this for decades, this is hardly new.

It’s cyclical. Sounds like you don’t deny the influence Hollywood has on liberal politics though.

[Devout Centrist]

An underrated aspect of 2020 is how Hollywood lost credibility in terms of leading social movements. Whether it was #MeToo, BLM or the general anti-Trump fervor the public no longer looks to Hollywood for moral leadership.

People have been saying this for decades, this is hardly new.

It’s cyclical. Sounds like you don’t deny the influence Hollywood has on liberal politics though.

I think wealthy people in Hollywood *can* impact how much visibility and attention their pet causes get. From my perspective, this is most apparent in the vast nonprofit and NGO ecosystem that raises awareness for what we might call liberal political causes.

In terms of “moral leadership”, I’m not quite sure what you’re referring to. Hollywood has always been hit or miss when it comes to consensus for progressive or liberal ideas. For example, while many figures in Hollywood were strong proponents of rights for gay couples, there was little obvious opposition to the 2003 War in Iraq (Michael Moore famously received a frosty reception when he won an Oscar for Bowling for Columbine).

[Devout Centrist]

Just saw this, so I figured I should respond:

Hollywood was much more organized in 2017-2020.

How are we measuring this? I imagine Biden’s election lowered the salience of Hollywood’s most outspoken actors’ pet causes rather than any actual decline in Hollywood’s political organization, whatever that means.

They flexed their media muscle pushing #MeToo into the mainstream.

This issue was (and remains) very contentious. There were certainly Hollywood stars that advocated vociferously for Me Too, but recall that the foremost opponents or “enemies” of that movement came from within Hollywood, particularly at the executive level.

They got Time Person of the Year.

I was Time’s Person of the Year in 2006. And besides, I don’t particularly trust their editorial board to make sound judgements about America’s political economy.

They made a big impact on the discourse around Brett Kavanaugh, let alone Trump.

This is true, insofar as interest groups or individual actors are concerned; the same could be said for most other professional interest groups and associations that seek to influence political debate.

They turned BLM from a few small protests into a nationwide movement. Practically all of your favorite celebrities endorsed that. The Black Square movement was turbocharged by Hollywood.

Disagree. That was the work of activists on the ground (for better or worse) between 2014 and 2020. Hollywood was only marginally attached to these decentralized  and sporadic protests. The “black square movement” was a *reaction* to the salience of BLM in May 2020, not a forerunner.

In 2018 and 2020 they were huge donors and supporters of the Democratic Party.

These sums sound large, but other interest groups have consistently matched or exceeded the contributions of various Hollywood personalities or executives. Car dealerships and their interest groups, for example.

They helped focus the party on college-educated women, which is clearly paying dividends.

How so? This has been an ongoing trend since the late 80s and has little correlation with political advocacy from Hollywood.

It’s hard not to see how activist Hollywood was 5 years ago. But backlash was coming. DeSantis is persona non-grata on this forum due to LGBT but the pushback to Disney didn’t come out of nowhere. And Hollywood has clearly toned it down.

I really don’t see how DeSantis’ quixotic battle with Disney (and hilarious campaign for the Presidency) is all that relevant to a discussion about Hollywood.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1-Trump hasn't been in office for three years now, and Biden is probably the worst possible President for this type of activism, he neither urges it on and promotes it but also doesn't inspire a backlash fueling it like Trump did either.

2-Most people seem to agree that the state of feminist activism 2015-2020 was a complete mess and should probably be forgotten. I actually saw a meme a couple months ago on a local riot grrl band's Facebook page they crossposted from some "Leftbook" community that was clearly aimed at mocking how frustrating leftist activism was from 2015-2021 in the dates, and it included pretty much all the stuff that made people shake their heads and not take it seriously, including by the way a certain word that starts with "L" and ends with "x". I followed the link to the original community...and all the comments were supportive of the spirit of the meme. Basically even the original target audience for that stuff has mostly realized how silly and counterproductive it is and moved on. This doesn't mean of an abandoning of feminism, but moving back to a more third-wave style which is less in your face and recognizable and seemingly pretty normal now.

3-Elon Musk scared a lot of the influencers pushing all that stuff on Twitter and there hasn't been a replacement for them to congregate at. (TikTok perhaps has to some extent but no one over 30 pays attention to it.) Mind you this was going to happen anyway and Musk just expedited the process, Twitter was already in a slow decline and things like the online shunning of Lindsay Ellis on it was already causing a serious backlash from more mainstream feminists to this sort of thing.

I have no doubt we'll see a revival in the coming years, especially in a post-Roe world, but it'll more resemble the sort of thing we saw during the Obama years than the last couple years. The Everyday Feminism/Teen Vogue "bodies and spaces" era is being left in the rearview.

[darklordoftech]

1-Trump hasn't been in office for three years now, and Biden is probably the worst possible President for this type of activism, he neither urges it on and promotes it but also doesn't inspire a backlash fueling it like Trump did either.

Would you that Obama was different than Biden in that regard?

I have no doubt we'll see a revival in the coming years, especially in a post-Roe world, but it'll more resemble the sort of thing we saw during the Obama years than the last couple years. The Everyday Feminism/Teen Vogue "bodies and spaces" era is being left in the rearview.

Which Obama years? First term? 2014? 2015? 2016?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I honestly think the "white feminist" label really damaged its salience amongst non-whites and made it vulnerable to the likes of Andrew Tate etc.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1-Trump hasn't been in office for three years now, and Biden is probably the worst possible President for this type of activism, he neither urges it on and promotes it but also doesn't inspire a backlash fueling it like Trump did either.

Would you that Obama was different than Biden in that regard?

I have no doubt we'll see a revival in the coming years, especially in a post-Roe world, but it'll more resemble the sort of thing we saw during the Obama years than the last couple years. The Everyday Feminism/Teen Vogue "bodies and spaces" era is being left in the rearview.

Which Obama years? First term? 2014? 2015? 2016?

Generally yes that was true of Obama. Worth noting: why did you never hear of him after his election called the first "person of color President" or first "BIPOC President"?

Referring mostly to his first term here. Yes that stuff did start to materialize near the end of his presidency. But without Trump it would have faded a lot quicker.

[Devout Centrist]

I honestly think the "white feminist" label really damaged its salience amongst non-whites and made it vulnerable to the likes of Andrew Tate etc.

This is absolutely true. The move to specifically single out white women is a “progressive” way for people to engage in vulgar sexism.

[Dan the Roman]

I disagree with parts of Beet’s post but overall he gave a decent synopsis of the feminist movement over the past 10 years.

An underrated aspect of 2020 is how Hollywood lost credibility in terms of leading social movements. Whether it was #MeToo, BLM or the general anti-Trump fervor the public no longer looks to Hollywood for moral leadership.

Pay attention to how few celebrities endorse for president this year.

Part of this is a consequence of the reduced independence of Hollywood talent. The old Disney Channel model of indentured servitude has not been adopted whole scale, but agencies/studios have adopted an approach of grabbing young talent early from foreign markets, while the rise of streaming means the talent pipeline is closer to the network model.

The younger actors/actresses are products, not major figures in their own right, and when corporate lost interest in having them in effect do progressive product placement it largely ceased. But it won't matter much because a lot of what ceased was counterproductive because it was so self-evidently progressive product placement.

[heatcharger]

It was notable for DeSantis to go to war with Disney. You didn't see that in a Florida politician before -- for the first time the special relationship between Disney and the state was under serious scrutiny.

Once Disney got put on notice they explicitly toned down the messaging in their content. Bob Iger said as much:

“Infusing messaging as the sort of number-one priority in our films and TV shows is not what we’re up to. They need to be entertaining,” Iger said. “And look, where the Disney company can have a positive impact on the world — whether it’s fostering acceptance and understanding of people of all different types — great. But, generally speaking, we need to be an entertainment-first company, and I’ve worked really hard to do that.”

Important to note Iger stepped down as CEO in February 2020 only to return in November 2022. Interesting timing.

Disagree. That was the work of activists on the ground (for better or worse) between 2014 and 2020. Hollywood was only marginally attached to these decentralized  and sporadic protests. The “black square movement” was a *reaction* to the salience of BLM in May 2020, not a forerunner.

The Black Squares were everywhere. Even if you believe celebrity BLM support was a lagging indicator it was important for big names to express allyship and show their millions of followers it was socially acceptable to support BLM. That mattered. It did.

This forum regularly denigrates swing voters as idiots but then acts like celebrities can't influence their decisions.

[heatcharger]

"Female representation" in media has been put on the back burner. Media conglomerates felt the consequences and that's the reason you're seeing less feminism in your media.