Arizona Supreme Court rules to uphold 1864 near total abortion ban

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/jeremyduda/status/1778116791887339527

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So Hobbs has the power to call a special session, but does she have any power over what is addressed in that session? Could the Speaker just waste all the time on things like naming memorial benches in parks?

[mjba257]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Arizona Republicans Thwart Attempts to Repeal 1864 Abortion Ban

Republican leaders in the Senate removed one bill from the day’s agenda on Wednesday, legislative aides said. In the other chamber, a Republican House member who has done a political about-face and called for striking down the law made a motion to vote on a Democratic repeal bill that has sat stalled for months. But Republican leaders quickly put the House into recess before any vote could be held.

Democrats on the Senate floor jeered as their Republican colleagues filed out of the chamber.

[wbrocks67]

Well look what we have here…

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/10/arizona-republicans-against-state-abortion-ban

That's already one Republican in each chamber publicly opposed to the total ban.  This is clearly getting modified before the election.

This aged like milk. Maybe you should stop trying to give credit to Republicans time and time again.

[7,052,770]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

[mjba257]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

You are describing an evangelicon and not every Republican is one of them. Many Republicans support compromise laws like 15-weeks and don't think of this as "the Holocaust".

[Arizona Iced Tea]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

I think Dems are going to start becoming anti-referendum in swing states. A referendum can only give them a boost once, holding the issue hostage lets you run on it for decades.

[Ferguson97]

I think Dems are going to start becoming anti-referendum in swing states. A referendum can only give them a boost once, holding the issue hostage lets you run on it for decades.

Of course you think that. The notion that Democrats might actually care about the issues they advocate for is completely alien to you.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

You are describing an evangelicon and not every Republican is one of them. Many Republicans support compromise laws like 15-weeks and don't think of this as "the Holocaust".

Without Evangelicals the GOP is dead. They have to keep them in the fold or they have no electoral future.

[mjba257]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

You are describing an evangelicon and not every Republican is one of them. Many Republicans support compromise laws like 15-weeks and don't think of this as "the Holocaust".

Without Evangelicals the GOP is dead. They have to keep them in the fold or they have no electoral future.

If the GOP loses evangelicals, then that would finally give them the go ahead to drop the wedge issues that no one cares about. There are countless number of center to center-right voters who agree with most GOP policies but get turned away by the evangelicals. May cause short term pain but long term gain. Only question is where do the evangelicals ultimately go?

[MasterJedi]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

You are describing an evangelicon and not every Republican is one of them. Many Republicans support compromise laws like 15-weeks and don't think of this as "the Holocaust".

Without Evangelicals the GOP is dead. They have to keep them in the fold or they have no electoral future.

If the GOP loses evangelicals, then that would finally give them the go ahead to drop the wedge issues that no one cares about. There are countless number of center to center-right voters who agree with most GOP policies but get turned away by the evangelicals. May cause short term pain but long term gain. Only question is where do the evangelicals ultimately go?

The problem is they don’t moderate it would be back to hard “healthcare is not a right, protections are not a right, elimination of SS” that will still turn off those voters.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

You are describing an evangelicon and not every Republican is one of them. Many Republicans support compromise laws like 15-weeks and don't think of this as "the Holocaust".

Without Evangelicals the GOP is dead. They have to keep them in the fold or they have no electoral future.

If the GOP loses evangelicals, then that would finally give them the go ahead to drop the wedge issues that no one cares about. There are countless number of center to center-right voters who agree with most GOP policies but get turned away by the evangelicals. May cause short term pain but long term gain. Only question is where do the evangelicals ultimately go?

You seem to misunderstand the relationship. Evangelicals aren’t republicans, republicans are evangelicals. In much of the south, Midwest and plains the republican party is majority evangelical. They quite literally would cease to exist in any meaningful way if they loose those states.

[politicallefty]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

I think Dems are going to start becoming anti-referendum in swing states. A referendum can only give them a boost once, holding the issue hostage lets you run on it for decades.

That's projection once again. The Democratic Party is more unified than ever since Roe was overturned. It's the Republican Party that is running from its policies.

This is the first real opportunity for ballot initiatives since Dobbs. Michigan was the only state where a voter-initiated amendment made the ballot in time in 2022. California and Vermont approved amendments referred by the state legislatures. Ohio approved a voter-initiated amendment in 2023, the earliest it could be approved (and among the states that allow for statewide ballot measures in odd years). There were those that argued for postponing the Ohio initiative until 2024. That's crass and without consideration of the people of the state or those that need to go a state like Ohio for reproductive services (and Ohio does seem to be an important location for those in several other states seeking to exercise their right to bodily autonomy).

[mjba257]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

You are describing an evangelicon and not every Republican is one of them. Many Republicans support compromise laws like 15-weeks and don't think of this as "the Holocaust".

Without Evangelicals the GOP is dead. They have to keep them in the fold or they have no electoral future.

If the GOP loses evangelicals, then that would finally give them the go ahead to drop the wedge issues that no one cares about. There are countless number of center to center-right voters who agree with most GOP policies but get turned away by the evangelicals. May cause short term pain but long term gain. Only question is where do the evangelicals ultimately go?

You seem to misunderstand the relationship. Evangelicals aren’t republicans, republicans are evangelicals. In much of the south, Midwest and plains the republican party is majority evangelical. They quite literally would cease to exist in any meaningful way if they loose those states.

Evangelicals weren't a political force until the mid-70s when they were an important part of the Carter Coalition. It was during the 80s that the evangelicals started to migrate to the GOP. The evangelical-dominated plains region had been voting Republican long before then. There was a farm recession in the 1940s under FDR than caused the Plains to flip to the GOP.

Party coalitions do change and evangelicals leaving the GOP would be a massive shift in American politics. But there are plenty of demographics of people that could fill in that gap. The Northeast, for example, was once a GOP stronghold. It was the evangelical swing of the GOP that cost them the region. But even to this day, there is a fiscally conservative bent in these states. Why do you think people like Chris Sununu, Phil Scott, Charlie Baker, Larry Hogan, etc are popular in their respective states? None of them are running on abortion bans or Christian nationalism. They focus on broadly popular kitchen table issues that appeal to everyone.

So that would be the clear path forward for a secularized GOP. And I think it be much better for healing our national divisions if the parties focused solely on the economic and not the cultural issues.

[Damocles]

Clown show.

[Vice President Christian Man]

Well look what we have here…

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/10/arizona-republicans-against-state-abortion-ban

That's already one Republican in each chamber publicly opposed to the total ban.  This is clearly getting modified before the election.

This aged like milk. Maybe you should stop trying to give credit to Republicans time and time again.

I prefer to think of myself as an equal opportunity wildcard of sorts. I've praised Democrats and criticized Republicans on multiple occasions.

[Dan the Roman]

One of the major shifts is the absence of genuinely Pro-Choice Republicans. There are Pro-IVF Republicans, Republicans who not care and would be happy to settle for 12/15 weeks if the politics were right, and a few who genuinely, deeply care about life of the mother exceptions. As far as I can tell, federally, the latter is the only truly principally committed opposition to the fetal person-hood folks. Many of them are skeptical that 6-weeks is enough to allow effective life/health of the mother care, and absolutely certain anything more restrictive will fail to do so in practice, but there is almost no one making a bodily autonomy argument federally. And that has filtered down to Sununu, Baker, Hogan being anachronisms from another era.

[Person Man]

[MasterJedi]

The AZ House has voted to repeal it, now to see if the Senate wants to kill Republican electoral chances.

[GeorgiaModerate]

The AZ House has voted to repeal it, now to see if the Senate wants to kill Republican electoral chances.

The bill is likely to pass the Senate.  The House was the big stumbling block.

[emailking]

Is the decision still stayed?

[jojoju1998]

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

You are describing an evangelicon and not every Republican is one of them. Many Republicans support compromise laws like 15-weeks and don't think of this as "the Holocaust".

Without Evangelicals the GOP is dead. They have to keep them in the fold or they have no electoral future.

If the GOP loses evangelicals, then that would finally give them the go ahead to drop the wedge issues that no one cares about. There are countless number of center to center-right voters who agree with most GOP policies but get turned away by the evangelicals. May cause short term pain but long term gain. Only question is where do the evangelicals ultimately go?

You seem to misunderstand the relationship. Evangelicals aren’t republicans, republicans are evangelicals. In much of the south, Midwest and plains the republican party is majority evangelical. They quite literally would cease to exist in any meaningful way if they loose those states.

Ehh. White Evangelicals; sure. But Evangelicals as a whole ( if we hold to the classic definition of evangelical christianity ) are getting more diverse, and they're less liekly to vote Republican, if at all.


https://theconversation.com/evangelical-christians-are-racially-diverse-and-hold-diverse-views-on-immigration-102329

How long before Ben Toma is in Trump's crosshairs? I've said many times Trump isn't gonna cede a critical battleground state, and if he sees these as an electoral obstacle, he will fight tooth and nail to get rid of it. And god be damned to anyone that gets in his way.

I don't think you are grasping how anti-abortion people think about this issue. Ben Toma literally thinks the Holocaust just ended and it's up to him not to restart it. He won't care if Trump insults him for it.

If Arizonans want legal abortion, they will have to vote in Democratic governors, legislators, and judges forever. There's no more Roe safety net. Any time Republicans take power in most states, abortion is going to become illegal, because to them it's literally a life and death issue and they don't care about the long term electoral consequences.

You are describing an evangelicon and not every Republican is one of them. Many Republicans support compromise laws like 15-weeks and don't think of this as "the Holocaust".

Without Evangelicals the GOP is dead. They have to keep them in the fold or they have no electoral future.

If the GOP loses evangelicals, then that would finally give them the go ahead to drop the wedge issues that no one cares about. There are countless number of center to center-right voters who agree with most GOP policies but get turned away by the evangelicals. May cause short term pain but long term gain. Only question is where do the evangelicals ultimately go?

You seem to misunderstand the relationship. Evangelicals aren’t republicans, republicans are evangelicals. In much of the south, Midwest and plains the republican party is majority evangelical. They quite literally would cease to exist in any meaningful way if they loose those states.

Evangelicals weren't a political force until the mid-70s when they were an important part of the Carter Coalition. It was during the 80s that the evangelicals started to migrate to the GOP. The evangelical-dominated plains region had been voting Republican long before then. There was a farm recession in the 1940s under FDR than caused the Plains to flip to the GOP.

Party coalitions do change and evangelicals leaving the GOP would be a massive shift in American politics. But there are plenty of demographics of people that could fill in that gap. The Northeast, for example, was once a GOP stronghold. It was the evangelical swing of the GOP that cost them the region. But even to this day, there is a fiscally conservative bent in these states. Why do you think people like Chris Sununu, Phil Scott, Charlie Baker, Larry Hogan, etc are popular in their respective states? None of them are running on abortion bans or Christian nationalism. They focus on broadly popular kitchen table issues that appeal to everyone.

So that would be the clear path forward for a secularized GOP. And I think it be much better for healing our national divisions if the parties focused solely on the economic and not the cultural issues.

I would argue that the GOP is already quite secularized, and it is more akin to the secular far right populists in Europe.

https://www.lsu.edu/research/news/2020/1109-unchurched.php

"Christian nationalism is thought to have been an important factor in the election of Donald Trump as President of the United States in 2016—and likely drove many of his supporters to the polls in 2020. Now, new research shows Christian nationalist support of Trump isn’t tied to religious institutions or attending church on a regular basis. Instead, it’s tied to not attending church."




We have seen meanwhile a inverse in the Democratic Party with figures such as Senator Raphael Warnock, the Rev. William Barber opining a more religous progressive world view.

[henster]

Dems are giving away the store here and basically bailing out the GOP. The constitutional initiative was guaranteed to pass and the unenforced ban was going to be a great motivator for Dems. But of course they were fine completely taking it off the table.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Dems are giving away the store here and basically bailing out the GOP. The constitutional initiative was guaranteed to pass and the unenforced ban was going to be a great motivator for Dems. But of course they were fine completely taking it off the table.

Democrats don’t want women to die