Unethical people alert

[Poirot]

I am very disappointed by the action of some people to invade a small political party, quickly change by-laws and designate a replacement Senator. Politicians have reached the low of the worst of Labor party (since they have done this move in the past).

Clearly these invaders do not share anything with the party. They joined and fled within minutes. The replacement Senator should have been chosen by people who are in the party. I don't know how much effort was put in contacting legitimate members of the party to fill the vacancy before usurping democracy.

I don't know if it's the party who should make the nomination or there should be a special election. laki deregistered before resigning from the senate. The party could be at two members and becomes not a major party so a special election.

The party must have had a chair (if there is no chair it's the longest running member who becomes chair) so self declaring as Chair in minutes is dubious.

What I find disturbing is people involved in this wrongdoing are people associated with the law and running elections. They lose credibility and trust to do what is right and fair. The White House nominated recently these people to important roles and in the game they go act like crooks. Maybe the White House agrees with unethical behavior. It should think of removing them from cabinet to keep the functions serious. I have lost faith in people and institutions.

[Sirius_]

I did it because its possible and I didn't want anyone else to. But I have also written an amendment that would do away with this sort of thing. Last time this happened, people complained, and then did nothing, which is frankly stupid, and I was stupid for doing that too. So if someone in the senate actually wants to stop it, they can take up my amendment.

[OBD]

The Atlasian Left has rediscovered their balls. Glorious News!

[Continential]

I did it because its possible and I didn't want anyone else to. But I have also written an amendment that would do away with this sort of thing. Last time this happened, people complained, and then did nothing, which is frankly stupid, and I was stupid for doing that too. So if someone in the senate actually wants to stop it, they can take up my amendment.

Or alternatively you could have waited for ReallySuper to fill the seat and nobody would have any issues. Stop acting two faced.

I commend Poirot for being a responsible citizen and calling out these two faced scoundrels.

[Continential]

I did it because its possible and I didn't want anyone else to. But I have also written an amendment that would do away with this sort of thing. Last time this happened, people complained, and then did nothing, which is frankly stupid, and I was stupid for doing that too. So if someone in the senate actually wants to stop it, they can take up my amendment.

Or alternatively you could have waited for ReallySuper to fill the seat and nobody would have any issues. Stop acting two faced.

I commend Poirot for being a responsible citizen and calling out these two faced scoundrels.

ReallySuper held no legitimate authority to fill the seat

ReallySuper is the founder of the Hui Liliʻuokalani Party. Don't act smart.

[Sirius_]

Look, if it was not legal file suit in court, or if it was legal and you don't like it amend the constitution. I'm not going to fight either, and I'm not going to argue about it forever because that doesn't accomplish anything.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

A workable solution going forward would be to pass the proposed constitutional amendment closing the loophole, and have Wulfric switch to independent and then resign so we have a special election.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

A workable solution going forward would be to pass the proposed constitutional amendment closing the loophole, and have Wulfric switch to independent and then resign so we have a special election.

The seat I was appointed to is up for re-election in April anyways, if people want someone else in the seat they can vote for that then.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

This was a highly irresponsible move from a norms POV. This is the flat-out replacement of one political tendency's seat, elected by a particular set of voters, with a representative of a very different one and a distinctly different group of voters. Moving to "well it's legal" obscures this point. HL23 would rightly occupy that seat.
If Wulfric doesn't resign as Senator by midnight, I will fire at least one of either him or Sirius from the Cabinet, effective immediately. To be clear, that's in Central Time, which is in force in my home state of Texas.

[Adam Griffin]

Here's the thing: a party that has no adopted by-laws and no elected officers is not a real party. Obviously the game has been littered with hundreds of minor and even major parties established as memes over the many years, but if and when you and/or your party members hold political office(s), the bare minimum is to have at least a paragraph or two governing the most basic of procedures adopted by your membership.

Also and from a moral standpoint, let's remember that HLP did not elect the former Senator nor was the former Senator a member of said party at the time of their initial election, so a spiritual claim of "that's our/their seat" is completely moot. (also, would the current law require a special since HLP only had 2 members?) It'd be a bit different otherwise. This has even less cause for outrage than the OG panty raid. All that remains in the absence of such is the law.

I would thought more people would've learned after the Great Green Panty Raid! It's doubly hilarious because it's literally the same guy who made the same erratic decisions that led to this once again. Oh well: people can't say I didn't warn them.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I do think either a clarifying amendment or a lawsuit is a good thing so we actually get some clear law in this area.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Here's the thing: a party that has no adopted by-laws and no elected officers is not a real party. Obviously the game has been littered with hundreds of minor and even major parties established as memes over the many years, but if and when you and/or your party members hold political office(s), the bare minimum is to have at least a paragraph or two governing the most basic of procedures adopted by your membership.

Also and from a moral standpoint, let's remember that HLP did not elect the former Senator nor was the former Senator a member of said party at the time of their initial election, so a spiritual claim of "that's our/their seat" is completely moot. (also, would the current law require a special since HLP only had 2 members?) It'd be a bit different otherwise. This has even less cause for outrage than the OG panty raid. All that remains in the absence of such is the law.

I would thought more people would've learned after the Great Green Panty Raid! It's doubly hilarious because it's literally the same guy who made the same erratic decisions that led to this once again. Oh well: people can't say I didn't warn them.

This. I'd like to make it abundantly clear that there was no bylaws and no chair at the time of the move beginning. ReallySuper's "rights as founder" are not acknowledged by law, Laki's "last wish" was improperly worded, and HL23's brief running of a convention the other week was equal in legitimacy to our move, and we worked faster.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

If there is a lawsuit, I will not submit a brief in my capacity as Attorney General due to the obvious conflict of interest.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Here's the thing: a party that has no adopted by-laws and no elected officers is not a real party. Obviously the game has been littered with hundreds of minor and even major parties established as memes over the many years, but if and when you and/or your party members hold political office(s), the bare minimum is to have at least a paragraph or two governing the most basic of procedures adopted by your membership.

Also and from a moral standpoint, let's remember that HLP did not elect the former Senator nor was the former Senator a member of said party at the time of their initial election, so a spiritual claim of "that's our/their seat" is completely moot. (also, would the current law require a special since HLP only had 2 members?) It'd be a bit different otherwise. This has even less cause for outrage than the OG panty raid. All that remains in the absence of such is the law.

I would thought more people would've learned after the Great Green Panty Raid! It's doubly hilarious because it's literally the same guy who made the same erratic decisions that led to this once again. Oh well: people can't say I didn't warn them.

Well the Great Green Party Panty Raid had the case that the Greens were part of the Labor umbrella.
This is multiple steps more distant.
What you said is legitimate from a party management POV but this is as clear a perversion as can be found regardless.
As such I hope it is rectified. I went to sleep at around 10 in the morning and I wake up with this on hand. Not good!
Y'all should have let HL23 take the senate seat instead!

[Adam Griffin]

Here's the thing: a party that has no adopted by-laws and no elected officers is not a real party. Obviously the game has been littered with hundreds of minor and even major parties established as memes over the many years, but if and when you and/or your party members hold political office(s), the bare minimum is to have at least a paragraph or two governing the most basic of procedures adopted by your membership.

Also and from a moral standpoint, let's remember that HLP did not elect the former Senator nor was the former Senator a member of said party at the time of their initial election, so a spiritual claim of "that's our/their seat" is completely moot. (also, would the current law require a special since HLP only had 2 members?) It'd be a bit different otherwise. This has even less cause for outrage than the OG panty raid. All that remains in the absence of such is the law.

I would thought more people would've learned after the Great Green Panty Raid! It's doubly hilarious because it's literally the same guy who made the same erratic decisions that led to this once again. Oh well: people can't say I didn't warn them.

Well the Great Green Party Panty Raid had the case that the Greens were part of the Labor umbrella.
This is multiple steps more distant.
What you said is legitimate from a party management POV but this is as clear a perversion as can be found regardless.
As such I hope it is rectified. I went to sleep at around 10 in the morning and I wake up with this on hand. Not good!
Y'all should have let HL23 take the senate seat instead!

I would say that the former Senator - however true it was - advertised himself as a left-of-center individual with various quirks in his leaning, so this would fall within the broader left-of-center coalition's umbrella as well (Peace and Greens were not allied in 2020, for what it's worth).

Likewise, the former Senator was the progenitor and architect of the modern-day Peace Party, via which his seat now lies.

Furthermore, in terms of net partisan balance averaged across all issues on the socioeconomic axes, Wulfric is probably as good of an ideological fit as any for the former Senator (albeit it falling more toward the middle on most things, rather than being insane left or insane right at any given time & having that average out).

[Liminal Trans Girl]

It was either this or Senator Yellowhammer

[Lumine]

Just as an increasingly detached citizen, I just would like to state that raiding another party to grab a Senate seat is pretty close to a moral low. And boy have I seen some wild stuff in twelve years.

Doing it just to "fix" it later is still immoral, btw.

[Poirot]

Reading comments it seems other people maybe also planned to do a similar hijack. There are sharks everywhere.

If someone has good memory, was there a rule put in place to protect parties, like the election for party chair must be at least 48 hours. When the in and out takeover operation happened before maybe there was something to protect against this. To avoid a group come in and change the name of the party, or vote dissolution, or change/ suspend the by-laws in a few minutes. Maybe there is protection for dissolution votes.

I remember if the chair position becomes vacant the longest serving member becomes acting chair to at least have a party official. (if the party has no replacement mechanism I guess)

I find the takeover moves anti-game. It's not even tiny parties that can be targets. What could stop a dozen peace party members to invade democratic alliance and take control of it for a few hours.

[reagente]

Reading comments it seems other people maybe also planned to do a similar hijack. There are sharks everywhere.

If someone has good memory, was there a rule put in place to protect parties, like the election for party chair must be at least 48 hours. When the in and out takeover operation happened before maybe there was something to protect against this. To avoid a group come in and change the name of the party, or vote dissolution, or change/ suspend the by-laws in a few minutes. Maybe there is protection for dissolution votes.

I remember if the chair position becomes vacant the longest serving member becomes acting chair to at least have a party official. (if the party has no replacement mechanism I guess)

I find the takeover moves anti-game. It's not even tiny parties that can be targets. What could stop a dozen peace party members to invade democratic alliance and take control of it for a few hours.

There were no plans to do a similar hijack. Statements that there were such plans are just an attempt to save face and justify these unjustifiable actions on the basis of "if we didn't act badly, someone else would surely would have."

[cherry mandarin]

It’s pretty incredible that they’re now trying to spin it and act as though I’m the one who’s attempting to steal an election here. How dumb do they think we are?

it seems other people maybe also planned to do a similar hijack. There are sharks everywhere.

I will say, I have very strong reason to believe Wulfric & co. were the only ones who hatched any sort of plan to take over the party (and Senate seat) whatsoever.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Actions speak louder than words.

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

I thought this was established as a normal thing that happens in Atlasia, a number of years ago now. It even happened to my party, and we purged those folks from our ranks eventually. Something actually interesting finally happens in Atlasia this year, and it's met with finger-wagging... Typical!

[cherry mandarin]

I thought this was established as a normal thing that happens in Atlasia, a number of years ago now.

Something actually interesting finally happens in Atlasia this year, and it's met with finger-wagging... Typical!

I think it says a lot about the state of this “game” when people dismiss the hostile invasion of a rival party (and rigging its Senate appointment process in broad daylight) as a supposedly “normal” occurrence …

[Liminal Trans Girl]

I made a lapse in judgement

[YE]

There is an old saying that people who whine about ethics are the least ethical.