Hot take: Biden should pull a Fetterman and go all in on supporting Israel.

[mjba257]

Honestly, at this point, the Pro-Hamas wing of the Democrat base is a lost cause. I'm talking about the "Uncommitted", heckling, protesting variety of voters. They think Biden is committing a genocide and there really is no way to win someone over who thinks that (after all, what's worse than a genocide?).

But, this also is a fringe minority of the electorate. They are loud, yes, but far from a majority. The vast majority of Americans, particularly moderates and independents, think October 7 was horrific and unjustified. They believe Israel has a right to defend itself and to exist. And they certainly do not support Hamas or have any sympathy for that cause.

As I said, Biden has nothing to lose at this point. But he has a way to lock up moderates and even some disaffected conservatives that will more than make up for the loss of the radical base. Case in point, John Fetterman's approval numbers have gone UP since he came out strongly in support of Israel.

[GoTfan]

There is no 'pro-Hamas wing'. It's a figment of this forum's imagination, born from a reflexive hatred of young people.

[Sir Mohamed]

"All in" is not a good approach unless the conflict is clearly right vs. wrong, like Ukraine vs. Russia. Sure, Hamas is much worse than the Israeli govt, of whom I'm no fan. Still, we shouldn't give Israel's govt and military a blanket check and spare of criticism where necessary. The numbers of civilian losses are too high and Israel hasn't done enough to prevent suffering (granted, Hamas uses them as human shields, so it's not it's solely on Israel).

Truth Israel also needs to change for establishing a permanent solution and peace. We should use our leverage to drastically move from their settlements policies, which are torpedoing any progress. That and existence of Hamas are the biggest obstacle imho.

[Umengus]

"All in" is not a good approach unless the conflict is clearly right vs. wrong, like Ukraine vs. Russia. Sure, Hamas is much worse than the Israeli govt, of whom I'm no fan. Still, we shouldn't give Israel's govt and military a blanket check and spare of criticism where necessary. The numbers of civilian losses are too high and Israel hasn't done enough to prevent suffering (granted, Hamas uses them as human shields, so it's not it's solely on Israel).

Truth Israel also needs to change for establishing a permanent solution and peace. We should use our leverage to drastically move from their settlements policies, which are torpedoing any progress. That and existence of Hamas are the biggest obstacle imho.

conflict is clearly right vs wrong.

[Umengus]

Honestly, at this point, the Pro-Hamas wing of the Democrat base is a lost cause. I'm talking about the "Uncommitted", heckling, protesting variety of voters. They think Biden is committing a genocide and there really is no way to win someone over who thinks that (after all, what's worse than a genocide?).

But, this also is a fringe minority of the electorate. They are loud, yes, but far from a majority. The vast majority of Americans, particularly moderates and independents, think October 7 was horrific and unjustified. They believe Israel has a right to defend itself and to exist. And they certainly do not support Hamas or have any sympathy for that cause.

As I said, Biden has nothing to lose at this point. But he has a way to lock up moderates and even some disaffected conservatives that will more than make up for the loss of the radical base. Case in point, John Fetterman's approval numbers have gone UP since he came out strongly in support of Israel.

you are right.

[BlueSwan]

No, this is a misframing. The Israel-Palestine conflict is not in any way comparable to the Russia-Ukraine conflict where the blame lies solely on one part (Russia). Yes, Hamas are worse than the Israeli government, but Netanyahu is a TERRIBLE leader who has only exacerbated the conflict. Biden should definitely BOTH support Israels right to protect themselves but also criticize Natanyahus way of going about that. This is really the only sensible option.

[Electric Circus]

Fetterman is a shtick artist worthy of the Vaudeville stage, and it's going to catch up to him someday.

Not only would Biden look terrible ("old man screams at a bunch of dumb college students"), there's also the fact that he's actually president. His actions have some influence over how events unfold. He can't just default to unconditionally backing Israel when even someone like Chuck Schumer is pushing for more nuance.

[mjba257]

Fetterman is a shtick artist worthy of the Vaudeville stage, and it's going to catch up to him someday.

Not only would Biden look terrible ("old man screams at a bunch of dumb college students"), there's also the fact that he's actually president. His actions have some influence over how events unfold. He can't just default to unconditionally backing Israel when even someone like Chuck Schumer is pushing for more nuance.

You ever heard of a Sista Soulja moment? It worked wonders for Bill Clinton. One of Biden's biggest flaws has been his unwillingness to call out the left flank of his party. It's plagued his entire administration from day one and now it's caught up to him. Far left politics are not popular and trying to placate to that fringe group has no upside to it.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Fetterman is a shtick artist worthy of the Vaudeville stage, and it's going to catch up to him someday.

Not only would Biden look terrible ("old man screams at a bunch of dumb college students"), there's also the fact that he's actually president. His actions have some influence over how events unfold. He can't just default to unconditionally backing Israel when even someone like Chuck Schumer is pushing for more nuance.

You ever heard of a Sista Soulja moment? It worked wonders for Bill Clinton. One of Biden's biggest flaws has been his unwillingness to call out the left flank of his party. It's plagued his entire administration from day one and now it's caught up to him. Far left politics are not popular and trying to placate to that fringe group has no upside to it.

The biggest problem these days is the amount of far left people who work in the administrative state and that’s what’s plagued the administration.

[2016]

Fetterman is a shtick artist worthy of the Vaudeville stage, and it's going to catch up to him someday.

Not only would Biden look terrible ("old man screams at a bunch of dumb college students"), there's also the fact that he's actually president. His actions have some influence over how events unfold. He can't just default to unconditionally backing Israel when even someone like Chuck Schumer is pushing for more nuance.

You ever heard of a Sista Soulja moment? It worked wonders for Bill Clinton. One of Biden's biggest flaws has been his unwillingness to call out the left flank of his party. It's plagued his entire administration from day one and now it's caught up to him. Far left politics are not popular and trying to placate to that fringe group has no upside to it.

The biggest problem these days is the amount of far left people who work in the administrative state and that’s what’s plagued the administration.

Biden is just listening too much to Kamala Harris & her big Donors.
Do you really believe Pres Biden is pulling the strings in the WH? Nope mate! Kamala Harris is basically a Shadow President and Nikki Haley may have a Point when she said that a Biden Win means a Harris Presidency. I still believe that Biden won't serve out his Term but I am supporting him to get rid of Trump and his lunatics.

2028 will be fun mate with Harris being the Democratic Version of Donald Trump by being so unpopular.

[Gass3268]

Biden's position on Israel/Palestine is basically that of the median Democratic voter. So yeah, no.

[DS0816]

Re: Hot take: Biden should pull a Fetterman and go all in on supporting Israel.

Biden already does.

[mjba257]

Fetterman is a shtick artist worthy of the Vaudeville stage, and it's going to catch up to him someday.

Not only would Biden look terrible ("old man screams at a bunch of dumb college students"), there's also the fact that he's actually president. His actions have some influence over how events unfold. He can't just default to unconditionally backing Israel when even someone like Chuck Schumer is pushing for more nuance.

You ever heard of a Sista Soulja moment? It worked wonders for Bill Clinton. One of Biden's biggest flaws has been his unwillingness to call out the left flank of his party. It's plagued his entire administration from day one and now it's caught up to him. Far left politics are not popular and trying to placate to that fringe group has no upside to it.

The biggest problem these days is the amount of far left people who work in the administrative state and that’s what’s plagued the administration.

Biden is just listening too much to Kamala Harris & her big Donors.
Do you really believe Pres Biden is pulling the strings in the WH? Nope mate! Kamala Harris is basically a Shadow President and Nikki Haley may have a Point when she said that a Biden Win means a Harris Presidency. I still believe that Biden won't serve out his Term but I am supporting him to get rid of Trump and his lunatics.

2028 will be fun mate with Harris being the Democratic Version of Donald Trump by being so unpopular.

I've gone record and stated clearly that which ever party looses this election will be better off in the long run.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Yes, most Americans despise Hamas. Most Americans also don’t want to see the US dragged into another war, certainly not one in that part of the world. And most Americans don’t support the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians or the displacement of far more, certainly not with American weapons paid for by American tax dollars.

In a close race against a demagogue with savant-like abilities to manipulate the media to his advantage, Biden needs every vote he can get. And with the way the current Democratic coalition is constituted, alienating young voters, Arab and Muslim voters—frankly, “people of color” in general—is not good politics for Democratic candidates. I also seriously doubt that swing voters are particularly committed to Israel, especially compared to Republicans. 

Which brings me to my final point: it’s been decades since Democrats could outflank Republicans on support for Israel. That’s been made all the more implausible in the age of Netanyahu and the parties who keep him in power. Like it or not, support for Israel has become a liability for Biden, and that’s only more true the further away from October 7th we get, the more Palestinians die, and the more unstable the Middle East becomes.

[Electric Circus]

Fetterman is a shtick artist worthy of the Vaudeville stage, and it's going to catch up to him someday.

Not only would Biden look terrible ("old man screams at a bunch of dumb college students"), there's also the fact that he's actually president. His actions have some influence over how events unfold. He can't just default to unconditionally backing Israel when even someone like Chuck Schumer is pushing for more nuance.

You ever heard of a Sista Soulja moment? It worked wonders for Bill Clinton. One of Biden's biggest flaws has been his unwillingness to call out the left flank of his party. It's plagued his entire administration from day one and now it's caught up to him. Far left politics are not popular and trying to placate to that fringe group has no upside to it.

I disagree. One of Biden's strengths is that he has a strong instinct for where the median voter is and doesn't pander to activists. That also means not letting activists dictate the terms of the conversation.

On this issue, Biden has been absolutely clear in his condemnation of Hamas and those who treat it with sympathy. He hasn't done anything to placate the people on the fringe who are calling him "genocide Joe." I don't know why you're writing about the subject as if he were equivocating on this.

[FT-02 Senator A.F.E. 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

hell no

[DS0816]

…

On this issue, Biden … hasn't done anything to placate the people on the fringe who are calling him "genocide Joe."…

People are calling U.S. president Biden Genocide Joe, because he has continued to fund Israel, which is committing genocide.

[Beet]

It looks like Biden is moving in the other direction and is considering abandoning Israel. If he does, his hawk supporters on here (and the ridiculous Fetterman) will be in an awkward position of either being to the right of Their Guy, or admitting that the people who said we should stop giving military aid to Israel, e.g. a "far left fringe" were right all along.

If he doesn't, and Bibi goes ahead and completes the genocide in Rafah, then he's genocide Joe.

Either way, it was a huge missed opportunity for Trump as there were a lot more voters to scoop up on Biden's left here, but he dropped the ball by positioning himself to Bidens right. He still getting bad advice from Kushner? Or is it his billionaire donors?

[MyLifeIsYours]

It looks like Biden is moving in the other direction and is considering abandoning Israel. If he does, his hawk supporters on here (and the ridiculous Fetterman) will be in an awkward position of either being to the right of Their Guy, or admitting that the people who said we should stop giving military aid to Israel, e.g. a "far left fringe" were right all along.

If he doesn't, and Bibi goes ahead and completes the genocide in Rafah, then he's genocide Joe.

Either way, it was a huge missed opportunity for Trump as there were a lot more voters to scoop up on Biden's left here, but he dropped the ball by positioning himself to Bidens right.

Trump tried playing the anti-interventionist card in 2016,  bringing up Clinton Iraq War vote, so he could've done the same this time with the Israel-Gaza conflic if he wants a chancfe of winning more votes.The big obstacle is Christian Zionism is far too prominent of a faction in the Republican Party to gain traction from dove-ish independents who are upset with Biden handling of the conflict. The Evangelicals would stay out of the election, which costs Trump the election in this hypothesis.

[Devils30]

Fetterman is a shtick artist worthy of the Vaudeville stage, and it's going to catch up to him someday.

Not only would Biden look terrible ("old man screams at a bunch of dumb college students"), there's also the fact that he's actually president. His actions have some influence over how events unfold. He can't just default to unconditionally backing Israel when even someone like Chuck Schumer is pushing for more nuance.

You ever heard of a Sista Soulja moment? It worked wonders for Bill Clinton. One of Biden's biggest flaws has been his unwillingness to call out the left flank of his party. It's plagued his entire administration from day one and now it's caught up to him. Far left politics are not popular and trying to placate to that fringe group has no upside to it.

The biggest problem these days is the amount of far left people who work in the administrative state and that’s what’s plagued the administration.

Biden is just listening too much to Kamala Harris & her big Donors.
Do you really believe Pres Biden is pulling the strings in the WH? Nope mate! Kamala Harris is basically a Shadow President and Nikki Haley may have a Point when she said that a Biden Win means a Harris Presidency. I still believe that Biden won't serve out his Term but I am supporting him to get rid of Trump and his lunatics.

2028 will be fun mate with Harris being the Democratic Version of Donald Trump by being so unpopular.

His decision to pick her over Whitmer will be lamented by historians.

[Bush did 311]

Fetterman is a shtick artist worthy of the Vaudeville stage, and it's going to catch up to him someday.

Not only would Biden look terrible ("old man screams at a bunch of dumb college students"), there's also the fact that he's actually president. His actions have some influence over how events unfold. He can't just default to unconditionally backing Israel when even someone like Chuck Schumer is pushing for more nuance.

You ever heard of a Sista Soulja moment? It worked wonders for Bill Clinton. One of Biden's biggest flaws has been his unwillingness to call out the left flank of his party. It's plagued his entire administration from day one and now it's caught up to him. Far left politics are not popular and trying to placate to that fringe group has no upside to it.

The biggest problem these days is the amount of far left people who work in the administrative state and that’s what’s plagued the administration.

Biden is just listening too much to Kamala Harris & her big Donors.
Do you really believe Pres Biden is pulling the strings in the WH? Nope mate! Kamala Harris is basically a Shadow President and Nikki Haley may have a Point when she said that a Biden Win means a Harris Presidency. I still believe that Biden won't serve out his Term but I am supporting him to get rid of Trump and his lunatics.

2028 will be fun mate with Harris being the Democratic Version of Donald Trump by being so unpopular.

She won't clear the primary even if she's a sitting president.

[wnwnwn]

On track
Stay the course.
A millon points of light.
The best strategery in this issue.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Going all in on a train controlled by Netanyahu, who wants Trump to win, is a bad idea.

If Biden says "I will stand with Israel no matter what" then Netanyahu will take that as carte blanche to do what he likes, which probably means pursuing a strategy that will cause Joe Biden maximum electoral damage on the left.

I wouldn't put it past Netanyahu to intentionally commit an atrocious war crime right before the Democratic National Convention just to spark massive protests and completely undermine the Democratic Party's case to their base for supporting Israel.

The Hamas Left is a complete lost cause but there are a lot of young voters out there who don't actually support Hamas, they are just being bombarded day and night with pro-Hamas messaging about genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide genocide.  These are more winnable voters for Biden, especially if the war can wind down and allow for Israeli-American humanitarian cooperative efforts to take the forefront in the news.