Uber & Lyft to halt operations in Minneapolis from May 1st

[oldtimer]

Seattle is relearning an old lesson too
link-local?

Uber published new data Thursday showing a 30% decrease in order volume over the past six weeks in Seattle. DoorDash said earlier this week that it saw 30,000 fewer orders in a two-week period since the law was implemented.

Some drivers who spoke at a City Council meeting this week said they’re making less money per hour and fewer tips.

Meanwhile, restaurant owners — particularly those that generate substantial revenue from the delivery apps — are concerned about how the new fees are impacting their businesses.

And consumers, many who have come to rely on these services, are complaining about the higher cost.

Nelson said she’s determined to find a solution soon to help drivers, restaurants, and customers.

“I’m very worried,” Nelson said.

Nelson said she’s supported a minimum wage standard for gig workers, dating back to when the ordinance was crafted and passed unanimously in 2022.

But she also was concerned about the potential higher prices on consumers — and the impact on drivers.

It’s still unclear how the legislation is impacting overall income for drivers, given the drop in demand.

One driver who spoke at the City Council meeting this week said he was consistently making around $20 per hour before the ordinance went into effect — and now his earnings have been cut by more than half.

Another driver we spoke with this week said she’s earning more per hour, but is getting fewer work opportunities.

DoorDash said the new law requires the company to pay drivers in Seattle at least $26.40, before tips and pay for mileage — well above the city’s $19.97 minimum wage.

If any drivers are losing money, it is the ones doing this for only a few hours a week. That is, students and professionals who really can't drive and don't even need the job. The wages I am seeing here makes sense given that these apps give barely any benefits to the drivers in terms of maintenance and gas mileage perks with the drivers holding basically all of the risks. Meanwhile people are out there driving for hours trying to catch a willing participant to order or to drive and that time in the car really is wasted gas and time that takes its toll. While I am not a fan of people picturing a false reality of high crime and the ills of the inhabitants of America's urban areas, all that goes out the window when you get a weapon pointed at you or your catalytic converter gets taken (ugh). Friends and family have told me these stories after all.

Obviously the pro-inflationary policies of the capitalist duopoly in the past decade have taken massive tolls on many people atlas doesn't care about, among other things, but otherwise this is the fault of businesses price gouging and paying s••• wages.

The simple summary is:

Those Corporations where competitive as long as they undercut the minimum wage.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

I don't know where OP believes that most ride-share drivers make '15-20' an hour, and even if that is true then he must mean before the companies take their cut and you're paying for gas and maintenance of your own vehicle, so yeah. Maybe in the Bay? I've heard of people making 30+ there, admittedly.

This whole 'industry' needs drastic reform cause the current model is simply unsustainable and exploitative, and it even feels that way when I (don't, anymore) order these days thru them, so I just stopped even though I always made sure to tip based on mileage, with a base rate, etc.

Simply not worth it. And I did my fair-share of delivery work and dabbled in ride share when it was actually lucrative circa 2020-2021.

It's become a free-labor trap for desperate people (often times immigrants, wage laborers, etc) who are getting paid like $7-8 an hour in some cases now. Terrible. And a lot of them aren't technologically savvy enough to game the gig companies back and just take whatever is thrown their way.

Never done Uber or Lyft, but with DoorDash I clear $25/hour. I only do it at most like 8 hours a week though, it's a side gig.

On a weekend, if you chose a spot near some liquor stores & Applebees type restaurants, yes that was doable. But again, you are choosing to do it for spending / side money which puts less strain on your vehicle than doing it as a full-time gig would and probably (hopefully) are being picky about the orders you can choose to take, because you aren't dependent on the company.

So yeah, cherry-picking any stats like that doesn't really mean much.

All the 3$, 7mi Waffle House orders get taken usually, too.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

All the 3$, 7mi Waffle House orders get taken usually, too.

Haha, those are notorious for sitting around for a long time. Drivers can choose to decline them and most do. DoorDash increases the pay by a quarter for every decline, but even that takes awhile to get to worth it. Typically what causes them to get taken are people using the "Earn By Time" option, which pays a flat hourly rate plus tips, which isn't really a great deal because even in Minneapolis it's only $15.25/hour* probably due to the city minimum wage and I've seen it as low as $12/hour in places like Bismarck, and you only get it while you're on an actual order and not waiting for one, and you're limited in declining orders, if you decline two orders in an hour you're booted off it and put on earn by order, but obviously much better for stuff like this.

However I rarely even get offered orders like that. Why? Because my stats are so good they qualify me to get offered the "high pay" orders first. I think Uber and Lyft do the same, so if drivers are making peanuts, it's because they're the lower quality ones and have low star ratings/acceptance rates/on time/etc. It's not the good drivers who are complaining.

*Although it increases during peak times, by twice the per order rate, so if there's a $1 bonus per order in south Minneapolis you get $17.25/hour, and if there's the top bonus of $3 per order you can get $21.25/hour. But again only on the actual order.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

All the 3$, 7mi Waffle House orders get taken usually, too.

Haha, those are notorious for sitting around for a long time. Drivers can choose to decline them and most do. DoorDash increases the pay by a quarter for every decline, but even that takes awhile to get to worth it. Typically what causes them to get taken are people using the "Earn By Time" option, which pays a flat hourly rate plus tips, which isn't really a great deal because even in Minneapolis it's only $15.25/hour* probably due to the city minimum wage and I've seen it as low as $12/hour in places like Bismarck, and you only get it while you're on an actual order and not waiting for one, and you're limited in declining orders, if you decline two orders in an hour you're booted off it and put on earn by order, but obviously much better for stuff like this.

However I rarely even get offered orders like that. Why? Because my stats are so good they qualify me to get offered the "high pay" orders first. I think Uber and Lyft do the same, so if drivers are making peanuts, it's because they're the lower quality ones and have low star ratings/acceptance rates/on time/etc. It's not the good drivers who are complaining.

*Although it increases during peak times, by twice the per order rate, so if there's a $1 bonus per order in south Minneapolis you get $17.25/hour, and if there's the top bonus of $3 per order you can get $21.25/hour. But again only on the actual order.

I'll be honest, I haven't done DD since 2020 and I mostly ditched it for Instacart and occasionally Ubereats, I'm vaguely aware of the new 'higher paying orders' for having something like a 60-70% acceptance rate system works just through the different communities I still follow occasionally, though.

I don't know what to tell you BRTD, sometimes I find you contrarian just for contrarians sake if I'm being honest and may just give up.

I've had conversations with multiple people, usually those who speak pretty rough English but also just a lot of regular-joe looking drivers, who admit that they literally take every single order DD (or whatever platform, it's irrelevant, they all operate the same) throws at them, they need the money for rent, or necessities, or car repairs, which the latter is a self-defeating goal already, etc... And I had MANY of these conversations when I did gig work while waiting for higher paying orders since, like you, I was doing it primarily as a side gig.

Those are the people that make up, in my experience, the bulk of the drivers that the gig companies take advantage of.

You and me sitting around, waiting for a $20-30 tipped order for some side money isn't the same thing.

And you could be a 5.0 driver in terms of deliveries with a 0% acceptance rate, which is what most of the drivers who were doing DD were for a hot minute in the 2022's cause the bulk of orders were 6-7$, 10mi range orders, or at least that's what almost every screenshot of peoples statistics showed that I saw on places like /DD, Insta, Uber, GigWorkers, etc. I myself was hanging around 4.9 as a rating, with 20-30% acceptance in my market.

Maybe it's just our markets differing, idk. But long story short: These companies are shady, full stop, and need to be regulated in some fashion. People are slipping through the cracks and these companies are benefitting from that.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

All the 3$, 7mi Waffle House orders get taken usually, too.

Haha, those are notorious for sitting around for a long time. Drivers can choose to decline them and most do. DoorDash increases the pay by a quarter for every decline, but even that takes awhile to get to worth it. Typically what causes them to get taken are people using the "Earn By Time" option, which pays a flat hourly rate plus tips, which isn't really a great deal because even in Minneapolis it's only $15.25/hour* probably due to the city minimum wage and I've seen it as low as $12/hour in places like Bismarck, and you only get it while you're on an actual order and not waiting for one, and you're limited in declining orders, if you decline two orders in an hour you're booted off it and put on earn by order, but obviously much better for stuff like this.

However I rarely even get offered orders like that. Why? Because my stats are so good they qualify me to get offered the "high pay" orders first. I think Uber and Lyft do the same, so if drivers are making peanuts, it's because they're the lower quality ones and have low star ratings/acceptance rates/on time/etc. It's not the good drivers who are complaining.

*Although it increases during peak times, by twice the per order rate, so if there's a $1 bonus per order in south Minneapolis you get $17.25/hour, and if there's the top bonus of $3 per order you can get $21.25/hour. But again only on the actual order.

I'll be honest, I haven't done DD since 2020 and I mostly ditched it for Instacart and occasionally Ubereats, I'm vaguely aware of the new 'higher paying orders' for having something like a 60-70% acceptance rate system works just through the different communities I still follow occasionally, though.

I don't know what to tell you BRTD, sometimes I find you contrarian just for contrarians sake if I'm being honest and may just give up.

I've had conversations with multiple people, usually those who speak pretty rough English but also just a lot of regular-joe looking drivers, who admit that they literally take every single order DD (or whatever platform, it's irrelevant, they all operate the same) throws at them, they need the money for rent, or necessities, or car repairs, which the latter is a self-defeating goal already, etc... And I had MANY of these conversations when I did gig work while waiting for higher paying orders since, like you, I was doing it primarily as a side gig.

Those are the people that make up, in my experience, the bulk of the drivers that the gig companies take advantage of.

You and me sitting around, waiting for a $20-30 tipped order for some side money isn't the same thing.

And you could be a 5.0 driver in terms of deliveries with a 0% acceptance rate, which is what most of the drivers who were doing DD were for a hot minute in the 2022's cause the bulk of orders were 6-7$, 10mi range orders, or at least that's what almost every screenshot of peoples statistics showed that I saw on places like /DD, Insta, Uber, GigWorkers, etc. I myself was hanging around 4.9 as a rating, with 20-30% acceptance in my market.

Maybe it's just our markets differing, idk. But long story short: These companies are shady, full stop, and need to be regulated in some fashion. People are slipping through the cracks and these companies are benefitting from that.

Yeah that's because it's easier to just whine online than actually do good work to get good stats.




Looks like it's possible.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

You are literally showing me proof of exactly what I said, thanks. Sitting around all day, cherry-picking one order a day isn't the person these laws are being made for.

Getting off this merry-go-round now.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You are literally showing me proof of exactly what I said, thanks. Sitting around all day, cherry-picking one order a day isn't the person these laws are being made for.

You must've missed the 80% acceptance rate then, that is obviously hardly what I'm doing, LOL.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

You are literally showing me proof of exactly what I said, thanks. Sitting around all day, cherry-picking one order a day isn't the person these laws are being made for.

You must've missed the 80% acceptance rate then, that is obviously hardly what I'm doing, LOL.

THAT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING. What are you smoking dude? Get your Delta 8 carts checked cause I think the gas station sold you some bad stuff.

You could sit around for months and have a 0% or 100% acceptance rate by taking or not taking one order Jesus. People would game that rate and have it go up and down by 60 points within a week.

You have a special ability to turn what should be a policy discussion into a dick-waving match with your selective edits and responses, I'll give you that BRTD.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You are literally showing me proof of exactly what I said, thanks. Sitting around all day, cherry-picking one order a day isn't the person these laws are being made for.

You must've missed the 80% acceptance rate then, that is obviously hardly what I'm doing, LOL.

THAT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING. What are you smoking dude? Get your Delta 8 carts checked cause I think the gas station sold you some bad stuff.

You could sit around for months and have a 0% or 100% acceptance rate by taking or not taking one order Jesus. People would game that rate and have it go up and down by 60 points within a week.

Which I'm clearly not doing with 26 orders last week.

I'm not sure how this would be possible. The acceptance rate is based on your past 100 orders offered, so that means I took 80 out of the last 100 offered. If it was based on some weekly thing prior, that no longer is the case and it's not relevant.

I have never smoked anything in well over a decade or vaped anything in my life.

[AlterEgo]

You are literally showing me proof of exactly what I said, thanks. Sitting around all day, cherry-picking one order a day isn't the person these laws are being made for.

You must've missed the 80% acceptance rate then, that is obviously hardly what I'm doing, LOL.

THAT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING. What are you smoking dude? Get your Delta 8 carts checked cause I think the gas station sold you some bad stuff.

You could sit around for months and have a 0% or 100% acceptance rate by taking or not taking one order Jesus. People would game that rate and have it go up and down by 60 points within a week.

Which I'm clearly not doing with 26 orders last week.

I'm not sure how this would be possible. The acceptance rate is based on your past 100 orders offered, so that means I took 80 out of the last 100 offered. If it was based on some weekly thing prior, that no longer is the case and it's not relevant.

I have never smoked anything in well over a decade or vaped anything in my life.

Except, as you've mentioned, you only work about 8 hours. I'm going to imagine that you're only working the most optimum hours. If you were putting in a full-time 40 hour week, things would undoubtedly look different.

If you wanted all your time worked at peak hours, you could work 6-7 days, but: 1) who wants to do that; and 2) if you wanted to work a straight-8 as opposed to a split shift, you'd still likely be working some less optimal hours. You could work a split shift where you work lunch rush, take an extended break, and then go back out for dinner rush. That sucks up a lot of extra time, especially if you have to drive a bit to get to the best commercial areas in your zone. And even then, if you're working lunch and dinner rush only, you're still putting in more than 5 days a week, unless, again, you're working at least some suboptimal hours.

[dead0man]

Except, as you've mentioned, you only work about 8 hours. I'm going to imagine that you're only working the most optimum hours. If you were putting in a full-time 40 hour week, things would undoubtedly look different.

If you wanted all your time worked at peak hours, you could work 6-7 days, but: 1) who wants to do that; and 2) if you wanted to work a straight-8 as opposed to a split shift, you'd still likely be working some less optimal hours. You could work a split shift where you work lunch rush, take an extended break, and then go back out for dinner rush. That sucks up a lot of extra time, especially if you have to drive a bit to get to the best commercial areas in your zone. And even then, if you're working lunch and dinner rush only, you're still putting in more than 5 days a week, unless, again, you're working at least some suboptimal hours.

and if these people wanted an 8 hour a day job, they could easily go get one.  But they don't.  They don't want one of those kind of jobs.  Why are so many people trying to force them to take a type of job that they very clearly do NOT want to take?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Except, as you've mentioned, you only work about 8 hours. I'm going to imagine that you're only working the most optimum hours. If you were putting in a full-time 40 hour week, things would undoubtedly look different.

If you wanted all your time worked at peak hours, you could work 6-7 days, but: 1) who wants to do that; and 2) if you wanted to work a straight-8 as opposed to a split shift, you'd still likely be working some less optimal hours. You could work a split shift where you work lunch rush, take an extended break, and then go back out for dinner rush. That sucks up a lot of extra time, especially if you have to drive a bit to get to the best commercial areas in your zone. And even then, if you're working lunch and dinner rush only, you're still putting in more than 5 days a week, unless, again, you're working at least some suboptimal hours.

and if these people wanted an 8 hour a day job, they could easily go get one.  But they don't.  They don't want one of those kind of jobs.  Why are so many people trying to force them to take a type of job that they very clearly do NOT want to take?

Also if I took an 8 hour a week job I'd have an actual schedule I'd have to adhere to. It's not something I could just do while getting from point A to point B.

I regularly do this coming back from Costco in St. Louis Park, get a delivery near it and deliver it in south Minneapolis. Or coming back from church, same thing St. Paul->Minneapolis. And sometimes after going to emo/hardcore/etc. shows although obviously not when I've been drinking.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

We got an extension: https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/11/business/uber-lyft-minneapolis-date-change/index.html

Lyft offered a sort of compromise and if they stay Uber probably does too. The City Council now still has until July 1 to implement that compromise. I bet it goes through, although lunatics like Robin Wonsley will no doubt will complain and oppose it.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

This would be far more effective at the state level than the local levels where municipal governments are easy to bully and blackmail by corporations.

I hope the city council stands firm.

[Devout Centrist]

Good. They cost almost as much as a regular cab anyway, now that interest rates have been jacked up and as they try desperately to achieve profitability.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Crisis likely averted! https://minnesotareformer.com/2024/05/18/uber-and-lyft-agree-to-deal-with-state-lawmakers-on-minimum-pay-rates-for-drivers/

And this law would also preempt any local ones thus invalidating anything the Minneapolis City Council did and thus also meaning they can not impede on my ability to get back from hardcore and emo shows after drinking!

Walz is absolutely BASED!

[HisGrace]

Looks like they figured something out, so good, but good lord a lot of the reactions in this thread were basically "let's make people's lives worse so we can feel good about ourselves"

[Farmlands]

Looks like they figured something out, so good, but good lord a lot of the reactions in this thread were basically "let's make people's lives worse so we can feel good about ourselves"

Uber and Lyft workers: we don't want this, we're fine with choosing our own hours.
Restaurant workers: we don't support this, we're losing a ton of money with this in place.
Night goers: we don't want this, it helps a lot to be able to easily get home after drinking.
Atlas: they're doing for the working class, now be quiet, workers and regular people!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What's also amusing is the dunces on Twitter and Reddit who are acting like this is another EPIC victory over Jacob Frey even though the standards that are being passed are pretty close to what he proposed and much closer to him than what the City Council passed (and was preempted.) Frey pretty much got what he wanted while a few City Council clowns are sulking on Twitter.

Really Walz and the legislature saved the Minneapolis City Council from some serious embarrassment. Had they not preempted it then either Uber and Lyft would pull out and they'd look stupid and the voters would be furious, or they'd be forced to humiliate themselves in passing a repeal.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Looks like they figured something out, so good, but good lord a lot of the reactions in this thread were basically "let's make people's lives worse so we can feel good about ourselves"

Uber and Lyft workers: we don't want this, we're fine with choosing our own hours.
Restaurant workers: we don't support this, we're losing a ton of money with this in place.
Night goers: we don't want this, it helps a lot to be able to easily get home after drinking.
Atlas: they're doing for the working class, now be quiet, workers and regular people!

A gig worker in this thread was talking about how it wasn't enough to live off of citing his own experiences and the experiences of other people who've done it, and the guy who opposes the bill does it as a side thing during the best hours and makes a bit more than 200 dollars in a week from it. This is hardly an accurate summation.

[Yoda]

https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-lyft-doordash-drivers-earn-below-minimum-wage-tips-study-2024-5

Confirms what was already known. Uber and Lyft (especially Uber) are horrible companies run by even more horrible people. No one who defends these s***hole companies has ever actually driven for them before - I have. They misclassify you as an "independent contractor" when you have no control over what rides you choose to accept. If you decline a ride b/c the pickup is so far away from you and the trip is so short that you won't make any money, they put you in a "time out", essentially forcing you to accept any and all rides and you actually lose money. Uber is a massive welfare queen - they're the Walmart/McDonald's of the taxi industry. The only thing they "innovated" is how to legally pay their workers below minimum wage. A company that pays their employees below minimum wage and no benefits is a leech on the local community. Minneapolis was 100% in the right to do what they did and more cities and states should do the same.

[dead0man]

Glassdoor suggests Uber is a better company to work for than Business Insider.