Uber & Lyft to halt operations in Minneapolis from May 1st

[prag_prog]

So looks like city mayor vetoed the move to lift minimum wage for Uber/Lyft drivers but the city council overrode the veto and passed the law. And now Uber/Lyft announced that they will pull out starting from May 1st onwards. Even Walz seems to have been against this.

What I really don't understand about passing these minimum wage laws for Uber/Lyft is that pretty much almost all the Lyft/Uber drivers in cities makes more than $15-20 per hour...enacting them for restaurant jobs, retail jobs makes sense but I am not a fan of enacting minimum wage for a gig job like Uber/Lyft.


https://twitter.com/StockMKTNewz/status/1768626738160980156

https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1768358188716585204

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

What I really don't understand about passing these minimum wage laws for Uber/Lyft is that pretty much almost all the Lyft/Uber drivers in cities makes more than $15-20 per hour...enacting them for restaurant jobs, retail jobs makes sense but I am not a fan of enacting minimum wage for a gig job like Uber/Lyft.

My takeaway from the fact that these people already tend to make more than is being called for is to wonder what, exactly, gets the executives of these rideshare app companies so het up about laws that mandate things they're already doing. Call me an old economy dinosaur, I guess.

[prag_prog]

What I really don't understand about passing these minimum wage laws for Uber/Lyft is that pretty much almost all the Lyft/Uber drivers in cities makes more than $15-20 per hour...enacting them for restaurant jobs, retail jobs makes sense but I am not a fan of enacting minimum wage for a gig job like Uber/Lyft.

My takeaway from the fact that these people already tend to make more than is being called for is to wonder what, exactly, gets the executives of these rideshare app companies so het up about laws that mandate things they're already doing. Call me an old economy dinosaur, I guess.

I think it's because implementation of minimum wage for a gig job like Uber is little bit different and complicated than implementing it for a retail job. They currently take a specific % share of every ride, whether it's 5 mins or 30 mins. How are you gonna implement minimum wage for a job like this ? In the new system, what if a driver just does 1 ride per hour for 10-15 mins and then does something else for remaining time or just simply rests ? Would Uber/Lyft still pay them for the entire hour ? Also under current system, I have rarely come across any Uber/Lyft driver in cities that makes <$15 per hr.

Also I don't think every Uber/Lyft driver even wants to have a minimum wage implemented. Some just do it for part time whenever they want

[dead0man]

I did a poll on this last Summer and Atlas wants fewer, more expensive rides.  As always, Atlas (rich kids) hates poor people.

[jojoju1998]

I did a poll on this last Summer and Atlas wants fewer, more expensive rides.  As always, Atlas (rich kids) hates poor people.

Also Governor Walz pointed out last year, that Uber/Lyft for better or worse, positively impacts people with disabilities, so that's why he vetoed that bill. He implies that without adequate public transporation, the whole bill could have backfired.

[Crumpets]

I did a poll on this last Summer and Atlas wants fewer, more expensive rides.  As always, Atlas (rich kids) hates poor people.

I feel like I've had this conversation on here before - don't remember if it was with you or not - but rideshares are not something I think of as a working-class or even lower-middle-class good, but already something that is used mostly by upper-middle-class and upper-class clients. The biggest reason I almost never use ride shares is because they are already ridiculously expensive and either using transit or just straight-up buying a car is a cheaper alternative. The people I know who do take ride shares are people like the senior leadership at work who use them to get to business lunches and government meetings faster. (There's a reason Uber helicopters are a thing.) Alternately, when I was working minimum wage, zero people got to work or got around town using ride shares except maybe in an emergency or for a special occasion.

EDIT: For some additional context, it costs about $5 for me to get to work via transit ($2 for the bus portion and $3 for the metro portion). I just looked how much an Uber would cost, and it's upwards of $20 unless I want to do the "share" option, which brings it down to $14.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yeah, see our city council sucks. I've complained about them before.

Although a lot are pointing out they've threatened this before and haven't done so, so it's likely they won't...but we'll probably get some absurd fee tacked on our rides.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Yeah, see our city council sucks. I've complained about them before.

Although a lot are pointing out they've threatened this before and haven't done so, so it's likely they won't...but we'll probably get some absurd fee tacked on our rides.

I know Biden’s made noise, but I really hope he follows through and cracks down on fees like what you’re talking about — trying to pass costs on to the consumer so that line goes up forever

[prag_prog]

I did a poll on this last Summer and Atlas wants fewer, more expensive rides.  As always, Atlas (rich kids) hates poor people.

I feel like I've had this conversation on here before - don't remember if it was with you or not - but rideshares are not something I think of as a working-class or even lower-middle-class good, but already something that is used mostly by upper-middle-class and upper-class clients. The biggest reason I almost never use ride shares is because they are already ridiculously expensive and either using transit or just straight-up buying a car is a cheaper alternative. The people I know who do take ride shares are people like the senior leadership at work who use them to get to business lunches and government meetings faster. (There's a reason Uber helicopters are a thing.) Alternately, when I was working minimum wage, zero people got to work or got around town using ride shares except maybe in an emergency or for a special occasion.

imo it depends on the place. I have stayed in Jersey for a while recently and noticed that rideshare was pretty reasonable option even for lower-middle-class. 15 min trip would cost me $10-12 on Uber/Lyft whereas it would have cost around $6-7 for 2 of us and around 35-40 mins on public transport. But I have also seen it to be ridiculously expensive in some places where middle class can't afford it. Seattle I think had the most expensive rideshare prices I can remember. A 15 min trip cost me like $35 the last time I was there

[PSOL]

lmao good f••• Uber and Lyft.

What I really don't understand about passing these minimum wage laws for Uber/Lyft is that pretty much almost all the Lyft/Uber drivers in cities makes more than $15-20 per hour...enacting them for restaurant jobs, retail jobs makes sense but I am not a fan of enacting minimum wage for a gig job like Uber/Lyft.

My takeaway from the fact that these people already tend to make more than is being called for is to wonder what, exactly, gets the executives of these rideshare app companies so het up about laws that mandate things they're already doing. Call me an old economy dinosaur, I guess.

I think it's because implementation of minimum wage for a gig job like Uber is little bit different and complicated than implementing it for a retail job. They currently take a specific % share of every ride, whether it's 5 mins or 30 mins. How are you gonna implement minimum wage for a job like this ? In the new system, what if a driver just does 1 ride per hour for 10-15 mins and then does something else for remaining time or just simply rests ? Would Uber/Lyft still pay them for the entire hour ? Also under current system, I have rarely come across any Uber/Lyft driver in cities that makes <$15 per hr.

Also I don't think every Uber/Lyft driver even wants to have a minimum wage implemented. Some just do it for part time whenever they want

A significant amount of their drivers, and all the drivers worth a damn, are working Uber full time and are former taxi drivers working for less since these apps bullied their way into the market. A good amount of part-timers do their work for 3-4 hours because that's where you make a good penny when the apps take their share.

These apps aren't even cheap anymore and were not since they swung their d•••s since 2017; without improving services, making the app better for their driving employees or customers, or expanding to new markets. Glad someone is standing with the working people against these robber barons.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

what am I going to do if I get completely sh!tfaced at an emo show now?! I guess spend about an hour dealing with annoying public transportation.

[dead0man]

what am I going to do if I get completely sh!tfaced at an emo show now?! I guess spend about an hour dealing with annoying public transportation.

you increasing your chances of getting shot by 250% is you just doing your small part for the progressive movement.  Get with the program.  Also, you could not drink and (maybe?) pay more than the cost of an uber to park or, you know, have your car broken into.  All this AND putting someone out of an easy to do part time job without a schedule that you 100% can tell they'd rather have than a "real" job.  All in defense of the notoriously shady cabby industry and filthy cars.  And a little complaining about the drivers making too much money.


It's amazing how horrible some modern progressives are.


edit-to be clear, I'm knocking the posters above you, not you

[GoTfan]

what am I going to do if I get completely sh!tfaced at an emo show now?! I guess spend about an hour dealing with annoying public transportation.

The great failure of Australia and the US has not been in developing modern public transportation. That's what's landed both of our nations in predicaments like this.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

what am I going to do if I get completely sh!tfaced at an emo show now?! I guess spend about an hour dealing with annoying public transportation.

you increasing your chances of getting shot by 250% is you just doing your small part for the progressive movement.  Get with the program.  Also, you could not drink and (maybe?) pay more than the cost of an uber to park or, you know, have your car broken into.  All this AND putting someone out of an easy to do part time job without a schedule that you 100% can tell they'd rather have than a "real" job.  All in defense of the notoriously shady cabby industry and filthy cars.  And a little complaining about the drivers making too much money.


It's amazing how horrible some modern progressives are.


edit-to be clear, I'm knocking the posters above you, not you

Even if I were straight edge, I'm not going to drive to most shows. If it's downtown where it seems most venues are now there's nowhere to park without paying the cost of an Uber/Lyft anyway.

One cool option to get there in Minneapolis and St. Paul is Evie, short term rentable electric cars that you can park almost anywhere as long as they're in the zone, and only cost about $10/hour, much cheaper than Uber/Lyft. I often use them to get to shows in St. Paul. But...as you can see, they're not reliable because there's no way to ensure one is near you, even if you're not drunk. I didn't have a car at all for about 4 months last summer and used them as my primary mode of transportation but if there wasn't one near me then I would have to...call an Uber/Lyft to get to one.

[prag_prog]

what am I going to do if I get completely sh!tfaced at an emo show now?! I guess spend about an hour dealing with annoying public transportation.

you increasing your chances of getting shot by 250% is you just doing your small part for the progressive movement.  Get with the program.  Also, you could not drink and (maybe?) pay more than the cost of an uber to park or, you know, have your car broken into.  All this AND putting someone out of an easy to do part time job without a schedule that you 100% can tell they'd rather have than a "real" job.  All in defense of the notoriously shady cabby industry and filthy cars.  And a little complaining about the drivers making too much money.


It's amazing how horrible some modern progressives are.


edit-to be clear, I'm knocking the posters above you, not you

Even if I were straight edge, I'm not going to drive to most shows. If it's downtown where it seems most venues are now there's nowhere to park without paying the cost of an Uber/Lyft anyway.

One cool option to get there in Minneapolis and St. Paul is Evie, short term rentable electric cars that you can park almost anywhere as long as they're in the zone, and only cost about $10/hour, much cheaper than Uber/Lyft. I often use them to get to shows in St. Paul. But...as you can see, they're not reliable because there's no way to ensure one is near you, even if you're not drunk. I didn't have a car at all for about 4 months last summer and used them as my primary mode of transportation but if there wasn't one near me then I would have to...call an Uber/Lyft to get to one.

yeah...evie was a good option. It's lot more reasonably priced than a typical rental car. Used it few times when I was in Minneapolis

[Santander]

what am I going to do if I get completely sh!tfaced at an emo show now?! I guess spend about an hour dealing with annoying public transportation.

The great failure of Australia and the US has not been in developing modern public transportation. That's what's landed both of our nations in predicaments like this.

Even in European or Asian cities with decent public transportation, it is extremely common to take a cab or rideshare home after a night out if you can afford it. The time/convenience equation shifts heavily to cars at night because public transit runs less frequently and traffic is lighter. You also don't want fall asleep on the train or injure yourself.

Taxis and rideshares are effectively the outer ring of a public transportation system.

[Crumpets]

Personally, my solution for making individual transit more affordable in lieu of better public transportation is to legalize the tuk-tuk on the streets of American cities!

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

I did a poll on this last Summer and Atlas wants fewer, more expensive rides.  As always, Atlas (rich kids) hates poor people.

1.It became much more clear since then that Uber (if not Lyft) was operating with massive losses to drive out (pun intended) the taxi competition. Since then, Uber and Lyft have raised prices significantly especially for peak hours (surge pricing). I'm still disappointed that Uber wasn't charged with uncompetitive practices for operating at such massive losses.

These losses, especially for Uber, went well beyond what would be expected for a startup.

The only competitive advantage Uber has left for any hours is paying drivers below minimum wage.

Uber and Lyft did a good thing in opening up competition against the taxi monopoly cartel where those existed, but as if often the case, the companies that break the law in order to do that tend to be run by absolutely horrible people (especially Uber.)

I think the original Uber executives anyway should be compared to pimps and drug pushers and I'm not sure the current ones are much better.

2.I agree with you that there are always 'snobs' to be aware of. For instance, to the degree that housing prices are based on the cost of the construction of the house rather than the value of the land, prefab housing and other standardized housing blocks significantly lower the cost of construction, but the snobs whine about the 'esthetics' of the neighborhood.

However, concerns with Uber (and Lyft) are not related to snobbish concerns.

3.Finally, a brief economics lesson related to the second point. Prefab and standardized housing blocks take about 3 weeks to put up on site whereas normal housing takes about 3 months to build. I appreciate that houses don't always sell right away, but this adds two months to the developers' time in which they own the land and receive nothing for it, and, obviously, that imputed interest cost is going to be added on to the cost for the buyer as well.

It might even be longer than that since prefab and standardized housing blocks can/do receive preapproval from city development authorities whereas a 'unique' home construction needs its own approval.

Prefab and standardized housing blocks significantly lower costs (except where the land values determine the sales price) but the housing snobs don't like them.

[dead0man]

Seattle is relearning an old lesson too
link-local?

Uber published new data Thursday showing a 30% decrease in order volume over the past six weeks in Seattle. DoorDash said earlier this week that it saw 30,000 fewer orders in a two-week period since the law was implemented.

Some drivers who spoke at a City Council meeting this week said they’re making less money per hour and fewer tips.

Meanwhile, restaurant owners — particularly those that generate substantial revenue from the delivery apps — are concerned about how the new fees are impacting their businesses.

And consumers, many who have come to rely on these services, are complaining about the higher cost.

Nelson said she’s determined to find a solution soon to help drivers, restaurants, and customers.

“I’m very worried,” Nelson said.

Nelson said she’s supported a minimum wage standard for gig workers, dating back to when the ordinance was crafted and passed unanimously in 2022.

But she also was concerned about the potential higher prices on consumers — and the impact on drivers.

It’s still unclear how the legislation is impacting overall income for drivers, given the drop in demand.

One driver who spoke at the City Council meeting this week said he was consistently making around $20 per hour before the ordinance went into effect — and now his earnings have been cut by more than half.

Another driver we spoke with this week said she’s earning more per hour, but is getting fewer work opportunities.

DoorDash said the new law requires the company to pay drivers in Seattle at least $26.40, before tips and pay for mileage — well above the city’s $19.97 minimum wage.

[PSOL]

Seattle is relearning an old lesson too
link-local?

Uber published new data Thursday showing a 30% decrease in order volume over the past six weeks in Seattle. DoorDash said earlier this week that it saw 30,000 fewer orders in a two-week period since the law was implemented.

Some drivers who spoke at a City Council meeting this week said they’re making less money per hour and fewer tips.

Meanwhile, restaurant owners — particularly those that generate substantial revenue from the delivery apps — are concerned about how the new fees are impacting their businesses.

And consumers, many who have come to rely on these services, are complaining about the higher cost.

Nelson said she’s determined to find a solution soon to help drivers, restaurants, and customers.

“I’m very worried,” Nelson said.

Nelson said she’s supported a minimum wage standard for gig workers, dating back to when the ordinance was crafted and passed unanimously in 2022.

But she also was concerned about the potential higher prices on consumers — and the impact on drivers.

It’s still unclear how the legislation is impacting overall income for drivers, given the drop in demand.

One driver who spoke at the City Council meeting this week said he was consistently making around $20 per hour before the ordinance went into effect — and now his earnings have been cut by more than half.

Another driver we spoke with this week said she’s earning more per hour, but is getting fewer work opportunities.

DoorDash said the new law requires the company to pay drivers in Seattle at least $26.40, before tips and pay for mileage — well above the city’s $19.97 minimum wage.

If any drivers are losing money, it is the ones doing this for only a few hours a week. That is, students and professionals who really can't drive and don't even need the job. The wages I am seeing here makes sense given that these apps give barely any benefits to the drivers in terms of maintenance and gas mileage perks with the drivers holding basically all of the risks. Meanwhile people are out there driving for hours trying to catch a willing participant to order or to drive and that time in the car really is wasted gas and time that takes its toll. While I am not a fan of people picturing a false reality of high crime and the ills of the inhabitants of America's urban areas, all that goes out the window when you get a weapon pointed at you or your catalytic converter gets taken (ugh). Friends and family have told me these stories after all.

Obviously the pro-inflationary policies of the capitalist duopoly in the past decade have taken massive tolls on many people atlas doesn't care about, among other things, but otherwise this is the fault of businesses price gouging and paying s••• wages.

[prag_prog]

Pretty crazy

https://twitter.com/Austen/status/1769414028546502733

[PSOL]

Pretty crazy

https://twitter.com/Austen/status/1769414028546502733

Well, actions have consequences, and Democrats thinking they can f••• with cabbies have consequences. It was the Obama coalition that promoted these gig monopolies to f••• over drivers and leave them with less money, more stress, but the same risk dealing with Uber or Lyft than with the Medallion monopoly. Either pay up or get out of the industry and let the yellow and black take their rightful place.

lmao, only students, drunkards, and liberals too poor for a personal limousine are getting affected. Back when Taxicabs ruled the streets, any poor shmuck could ride a taxi to make a living to support a family in middle class areas all by themselves, with little work needed. Back when the system worked, many working class drivers and immigrants hoping to catch the American dream could fall back on driving to get their family through life and succeed their children with a better life. Thanks to Uber and Lyft and these apps, people are poorer and often have to work out their longer driving around the block and leading to health complications and decreased living standards.

Using woke identity politics isn't going to work, the nature of capitalism is self-evident that it won't produce societal gain at all. Nonsense about using the disabled and PoC as a wedge to drive people's wages down isn't going to work as a. With disability-accessible vehicles being way outside the price range of many drivers and most cars with these apps being regular cars and b. Black and Brown people were making way more money under the medallion system legally or otherwise in their own communities with their being no impoverished drivers being on their turf. It isn't right, as the medallion companies and the state had a duty to maximize societal good, but it was better than now where everyone is getting f•••ed outside of lazy bums working a few hours a week if that to get some pocket change and UMC f•••s and wannabe poseurs.

If Democrats are smart, they would realize that in these policies of getting Uber to pay up to their employees or go back to a more efficient system of the 2000s where the black and yellow made America run would be wise politics. Many disaffected immigrants angered by actions done by Genocide Joe could be handwaived if they promoted workers instead of large corporations, and many Arab Christians and Eastern Europeans who have shifted right could be won with promoting these policies. But instead, siding with elitists like Republicans and Libertarians declaring themselves the party of Uber after the Dems took the major legwork to make that saying a reality and elitist media like South Park who uses identity politics to look down on cab drivers.

[dead0man]

so many wrong things AND free insults?  How are you not more liked?

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

I don't know where OP believes that most ride-share drivers make '15-20' an hour, and even if that is true then he must mean before the companies take their cut and you're paying for gas and maintenance of your own vehicle, so yeah. Maybe in the Bay? I've heard of people making 30+ there, admittedly.

This whole 'industry' needs drastic reform cause the current model is simply unsustainable and exploitative, and it even feels that way when I (don't, anymore) order these days thru them, so I just stopped even though I always made sure to tip based on mileage, with a base rate, etc.

Simply not worth it. And I did my fair-share of delivery work and dabbled in ride share when it was actually lucrative circa 2020-2021.

It's become a free-labor trap for desperate people (often times immigrants, wage laborers, etc) who are getting paid like $7-8 an hour in some cases now. Terrible. And a lot of them aren't technologically savvy enough to game the gig companies back and just take whatever is thrown their way.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't know where OP believes that most ride-share drivers make '15-20' an hour, and even if that is true then he must mean before the companies take their cut and you're paying for gas and maintenance of your own vehicle, so yeah. Maybe in the Bay? I've heard of people making 30+ there, admittedly.

This whole 'industry' needs drastic reform cause the current model is simply unsustainable and exploitative, and it even feels that way when I (don't, anymore) order these days thru them, so I just stopped even though I always made sure to tip based on mileage, with a base rate, etc.

Simply not worth it. And I did my fair-share of delivery work and dabbled in ride share when it was actually lucrative circa 2020-2021.

It's become a free-labor trap for desperate people (often times immigrants, wage laborers, etc) who are getting paid like $7-8 an hour in some cases now. Terrible. And a lot of them aren't technologically savvy enough to game the gig companies back and just take whatever is thrown their way.

Never done Uber or Lyft, but with DoorDash I clear $25/hour. I only do it at most like 8 hours a week though, it's a side gig.