Apple Valley, CA: Police fatally shoot black, autistic boy with garden tool“running toward” officers

[TDAS04]

Sad news.

LOS ANGELES, March 12 (Reuters) - Relatives of an autistic boy fatally shot by police while holding a garden tool outside his home are calling for greater transparency by California authorities investigating the incident, the family's lawyer said on Tuesday.

[T'Chenka]

Oh wow...

[jojoju1998]

Who the heck called the police in to begin with ?

"He was shot by at least one of two San Bernardino County sheriff's deputies dispatched to his home after relatives called 911 seeking help for what civil rights attorney DeWitt Lacy, representing the family, described as a mental health crisis.
In a recording of the 911 call released by the sheriff's office, screaming can be heard in the background as the caller says her brother is hitting another sister and carrying a piece of broken glass that he at one point had held to his own neck."

"The caller also describes the youth as committing "assault and battery" and pleads with the dispatcher to send police to "take him in."

This does not compute at all. What a tragedy all around.

[It’s so Joever]

He was charging at police officers…

[DrScholl]

Not surprised that an incident like this happened in Apple Valley.

[dead0man]

yeah, this sucks, but what the hell where the cops supposed to do?  Get beaten with a trowel?

[Horus]

yeah, this sucks, but what the hell where the cops supposed to do?  Get beaten with a trowel?

No one here said that. But celebrating this terrible incident and wanting the cops to be rewarded is disgusting too. No one should read this story and feel anything but sadness.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Only two (2) deputies on scene?  Given the situation, if I were a cop and in charge there, I would have ordered up to ten (10) deputies there.

People tsk tsk when large numbers of police are dispatched to resolve a situation involving a single individual.  In fact, such an approach saves lives.  Somebody being a jackass in one form or another against one or two people are more likely to stand down when it comes to ten people.  The seeming overmatch saves lives and minimizes the likelihood of the need to resort to firearms, particularly against a person that is armed, but not with a firearm.

I will say this:  I have had to call police on various occasions back in the 1990s due to mental health and substance abuse issues with my oldest son.  I will tell you that, in most cases, law enforcement have been poorly trained with regard to Mental Health issues, and they would rather arrest a person for an offense they may cause than initiate an involuntary commitment (in Florida, it's called a Baker Act for Mental Health or a Marchman Act for Substance Abuse) because it's less paperwork.

There are alternatives to a criminal arrest when someone is mentally ill and (arguably) not responsible for their actions in the legal sense.  Unfortunately, invoking these measures often involve either (A) the disturbed person going along with a voluntary intervention, or (B) getting a Court Order from a Judge, which requires those seeking the intervention to have to wait for the Courts to be open.  Most of our emergencies occurred at night and on weekends, and people in that situation need help then and there. 

I'm not going to make a judgement in this situation.  I do believe that Law Enforcement's first job, however, is to quell the disturbance.  I will say that a mere two officers doesn't offer a lot of promise to do that without resort to firearms.

[lfromnj]

Only two (2) deputies on scene?  Given the situation, if I were a cop and in charge there, I would have ordered up to ten (10) deputies there.

People tsk tsk when large numbers of police are dispatched to resolve a situation involving a single individual.  In fact, such an approach saves lives.  Somebody being a jackass in one form or another against one or two people are more likely to stand down when it comes to ten people.  The seeming overmatch saves lives and minimizes the likelihood of the need to resort to firearms, particularly against a person that is armed, but not with a firearm.

I will say this:  I have had to call police on various occasions back in the 1990s due to mental health and substance abuse issues with my oldest son.  I will tell you that, in most cases, law enforcement have been poorly trained with regard to Mental Health issues, and they would rather arrest a person for an offense they may cause than initiate an involuntary commitment (in Florida, it's called a Baker Act for Mental Health or a Marchman Act for Substance Abuse) because it's less paperwork.

There are alternatives to a criminal arrest when someone is mentally ill and (arguably) not responsible for their actions in the legal sense.  Unfortunately, invoking these measures often involve either (A) the disturbed person going along with a voluntary intervention, or (B) getting a Court Order from a Judge, which requires those seeking the intervention to have to wait for the Courts to be open.  Most of our emergencies occurred at night and on weekends, and people in that situation need help then and there. 

I'm not going to make a judgement in this situation.  I do believe that Law Enforcement's first job, however, is to quell the disturbance.  I will say that a mere two officers doesn't offer a lot of promise to do that without resort to firearms.

The article states this was the 6th time the family called the cops.

[kwabbit]

yeah, this sucks, but what the hell where the cops supposed to do?  Get beaten with a trowel?

No one here said that. But celebrating this terrible incident and wanting the cops to be rewarded is disgusting too. No one should read this story and feel anything but sadness.

Who is saying the cops should be rewarded? People are responding to a misleading title that spins this as police brutality. Every story of police using potentially lethal force is depicted as another example of police brutality when it’s justified almost every time.

[lfromnj]

yeah, this sucks, but what the hell where the cops supposed to do?  Get beaten with a trowel?

No one here said that. But celebrating this terrible incident and wanting the cops to be rewarded is disgusting too. No one should read this story and feel anything but sadness.

Who is saying the cops should be rewarded? People are responding to a misleading title that spins this as police brutality. Every story of police using potentially lethal force is depicted as another example of police brutality when it’s justified almost every time.

VitaNova did, I assume it was deleted by the mods.

[TDAS04]

He was charging at police officers…

Added that to thread title.

[GeneralMacArthur]

There's a lot of things that need to be added to the thread title.

Sadly, even if the thread title gave complete context, Atlas is an audience of maybe a couple hundred people at most.  Tens of millions of Americans will get a version of this story that's basically just the thread title with none of the other important context.  Such is society in the age where social media has completely supplanted responsible journalism as the means by which most people get their information.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Only two (2) deputies on scene?  Given the situation, if I were a cop and in charge there, I would have ordered up to ten (10) deputies there.

People tsk tsk when large numbers of police are dispatched to resolve a situation involving a single individual.  In fact, such an approach saves lives.  Somebody being a jackass in one form or another against one or two people are more likely to stand down when it comes to ten people.  The seeming overmatch saves lives and minimizes the likelihood of the need to resort to firearms, particularly against a person that is armed, but not with a firearm.

I will say this:  I have had to call police on various occasions back in the 1990s due to mental health and substance abuse issues with my oldest son.  I will tell you that, in most cases, law enforcement have been poorly trained with regard to Mental Health issues, and they would rather arrest a person for an offense they may cause than initiate an involuntary commitment (in Florida, it's called a Baker Act for Mental Health or a Marchman Act for Substance Abuse) because it's less paperwork.

There are alternatives to a criminal arrest when someone is mentally ill and (arguably) not responsible for their actions in the legal sense.  Unfortunately, invoking these measures often involve either (A) the disturbed person going along with a voluntary intervention, or (B) getting a Court Order from a Judge, which requires those seeking the intervention to have to wait for the Courts to be open.  Most of our emergencies occurred at night and on weekends, and people in that situation need help then and there. 

I'm not going to make a judgement in this situation.  I do believe that Law Enforcement's first job, however, is to quell the disturbance.  I will say that a mere two officers doesn't offer a lot of promise to do that without resort to firearms.

The article states this was the 6th time the family called the cops.

Given the situation, that's hardly unusual.

[Vice President Christian Man]

I don't want to jump to any conclusions until all of the evidence is released, but this was the 6th time the cops were called.  It's a sad situation all around, but I believe that he was acting out of anxiety rather than malice. Had the cops tried to deescalate and calm him down rather than shoot first, I believe he'd still be alive today.

[Horus]

yeah, this sucks, but what the hell where the cops supposed to do?  Get beaten with a trowel?

No one here said that. But celebrating this terrible incident and wanting the cops to be rewarded is disgusting too. No one should read this story and feel anything but sadness.

Who is saying the cops should be rewarded? People are responding to a misleading title that spins this as police brutality. Every story of police using potentially lethal force is depicted as another example of police brutality when it’s justified almost every time.

The post was removed.

[ProudModerate2]

I don't want to jump to any conclusions until all of the evidence is released, but this was the 6th time the cops were called.  It's a sad situation all around, but I believe that he was acting out of anxiety rather than malice. Had the cops tried to deescalate and calm him down rather than shoot first, I believe he'd still be alive today.

From the video it seems that with the door open, the cops may have tried to talk to him at first. But then, suddenly, he comes running at them with a large tool of some kind. That tool could have injured or even killed one of the police officers, had the suspect swung-down on the officer using the tool (regardless if he swung "out of anxiety rather than malice"). It's an unfortunate situation and very sad, but I believe the cops were justified with the action they took to protect themselves.

[Ferguson97]

yeah, this sucks, but what the hell where the cops supposed to do?  Get beaten with a trowel?

There's a reason that they have tasers and mace. "Shoot" and "get beaten by the suspect" are not their only options.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

My youngest brother is autistic and non verbal for the most part. It doesn’t take long to figure out that a person with a severe intellectual impairment has a severe intellectual impairment. Without seeing the video (if there is any), my bias is against the cops in this particular tragedy.

[dead0man]

yeah, this sucks, but what the hell where the cops supposed to do?  Get beaten with a trowel?

There's a reason that they have tasers and mace. "Shoot" and "get beaten by the suspect" are not their only options.

tasers are great, when they work, and they work about 58% of the time.  I certainly wouldn't put my life on the line with one and I would hope cops wouldn't either.  Mace/pepper spray is better, but nowhere near 100% and it gets EVERYbody.  Have you seen the video?