TikTok ban?

[wbrocks67]

Biden won’t win reelection at all if he signs this

Most people who use it can't vote anyway. Who cares

The youth that can vote will care. I think Americans will also question why congress can pass a Tik Tok ban so quickly and then ignore every other issue and pass the fewest laws in decades. It really makes me not want to vote at all.

Maybe you should take that up with the Republican speaker of the house

[EastwoodS]

Biden won’t win reelection at all if he signs this

Most people who use it can't vote anyway. Who cares

The youth that can vote will care. I think Americans will also question why congress can pass a Tik Tok ban so quickly and then ignore every other issue and pass the fewest laws in decades. It really makes me not want to vote at all.

Triggered WBrocks again! W!!!
Maybe you should take that up with the Republican speaker of the house

[Steve from Lambeth]

I'm a big supporter of this policy, not because I care about Chinese influence, data privacy or anything but soley because it will rid the literary world of the cancer that is booktok.

Average 2014 novel: "When We Were Lovers" (author is a former Starbucks barista who learned everything she needed to know about the English language through reading other novels)

Average 2024 novel: "Sunshine Beach: A Novel" (author is a multiple-published novelist who has never written a single work of non-fiction more substantiative than the biography on her website)

[Associate Justice PiT]

It's amazing that a forum that skews towards young people is so supportive of a TikTok ban. Just remember, that by supporting the TikTok ban you

1. Don't believe in the First Amendment and freedom of speech. "The CCP" you like to demonize is responsible for exactly none of the viral content on TikTok, your fellow citizens are
2. Are carrying water for Mark Zuckerberg, who is one of the hidden hands behind this legislation as the main beneficiary.
3. Are carrying water for the FBI and NSA to gain additional surveillance capabilities and authority. I've never heard of anyone going to jail over VPN use in China and Mark Warner wants to hand out 20 year prison sentences for that.

Looks like blind anti-China hate and jingoism has corrupted your minds. Maybe one day you'll wake up and realize that and regret that you supported policies that are in total opposition to your ideals.

Edit: No, Bytedance will not divest from TikTok. We won't let it happen. You won't pry TikTok out of our cold dead hands, you'll have to ban it and suffer the consequences.

     The CCP doesn't put the content on there, but it blesses the algorithm that promotes it and rots the brains of American youth, and it's not a secret that the TikTok equivalent that is used in China shows very different content. While there are important free expression concerns that need to be addressed, TikTok is an information warfare vector that the Chinese government is using to inflict severe long-term damage on the United States. If we cannot effectively answer this, then our defeat is a fait accompli. This goes far deeper than TikTok, but that is a basic litmus test that we need to pass if the survival of the nation is to be a realistic outcome.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Every social media platform can be and has been used for information warfare.

But TikTok is disproportionately the annoying Zoomer app, and the US government as of January 20th, 2017, has decided that we must have a new Cold War, so…

[GeneralMacArthur]

Every social media platform can be and has been used for information warfare.

But TikTok is disproportionately the annoying Zoomer app, and the US government as of January 20th, 2017, has decided that we must have a new Cold War, so…

The difference with TikTok is that it is owned by a hostile power that wants to engage in information warfare against us.

For all the faults of Facebook, I do not believe that Facebook is, or is answerable to, a hostile entity that wants to unleash information warfare against the American people.  But if it was, thank God that it's an American company that is subject to Congressional oversight, compliance legislation and audits from various institutions within the federal government.

I do think Facebook is a tool that is utilized by those hostile entities, who use its power to unleash information warfare.  But that is a very different thing.

[pikachu]

I'm a big supporter of this policy, not because I care about Chinese influence, data privacy or anything but soley because it will rid the literary world of the cancer that is booktok.

Get hyped for the return of bookstagram!

(Going by the Indian example, the most likely result from a ban is Google and Meta cornering the short video market and its ad $$$. Would be a disappointing result from an administration that’s talked a lot about increasing competition within markets and tech companies being too big.)

[AGA]

As much as I hate TikTok, I don't think that the president should have the power to ban websites. If it does get banned though, I will still enjoy the tears of TikTok users.

[Ferguson97]

I think this is unlikely to move the needle either way.

A new poll by The Associated Press and NORC Center for Public Affairs Research finds a three-way split when it comes to banning the app, with 31% of U.S. adults saying they would favor a nationwide ban on TikTok use, while 35% say they would oppose that type of action. An additional 31% of adults say they neither favor nor oppose a ban on the social media platform.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The thing I hate most about TikTok is it's directly responsible for YouTube creating that "shorts" feature which is an obvious answer to it...and it sucks so much. Prior to it if people wanted to make a less than a minute video on YouTube they would just...upload a video less than a minute long. Now with that stupid short thing you get videos where you can't move to different time stamps in it, you can't embed them here, they don't play on my TV and they're inferior in every way. It's a pretty bizarre feature, putting out a new feature that's the same as what the product already offers but just worse...but it's obviously there because of TikTok.

[LostFellow]

LOL!

https://twitter.com/SizweLo/status/1753033896822800411

Tom Cotton is the worst.

[GoTfan]

Elon Musk does the same with Twitter. Ban that too. Oh, and seeing as there's question to be asked about Trump, ban Truth Social as well. Oh, and maybe look at banning Facebook too, seeing as that Russian bots are active on there as well.

[DK_Mo82]

My under standing is this bill would not survive court as it is failure to meet least restrictive means test. See Montana case, they passed substantive similar law

[darklordoftech]

I won't miss seeing "unalive".

[Dan the Roman]

My under standing is this bill would not survive court as it is failure to meet least restrictive means test. See Montana case, they passed substantive similar law

Because it relies on executive enforcement + it is aimed not at the app but the ownership structure that would be a major break with precedent.

It dosent ban TikTok. It prohibits companies from four countries from operating platforms with more than a million users in the United States
If it falls so do most telecom regulations.

Bytedance can't challenge the ban

1. Without admitting Tiktok is effectively a subsidiary
2. Until the executive tries to execute the ban after 180 days

Also if you read the law it limits challenges to the DC Circuit.

[SteveRogers]

If Congress is determined to fix the internet, they should start by banning those fake movie trailer spammers on YouTube.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Every social media platform can be and has been used for information warfare.

But TikTok is disproportionately the annoying Zoomer app, and the US government as of January 20th, 2017, has decided that we must have a new Cold War, so…

the CCP started the new cold war, the US just has decided to fight back which is good.

[It’s so Joever]

If y’all don’t think the government arbitrarily banning an app which millions of Biden’s base use fervently as per of their daily life and as a basic means of entertainment to get through the day will have a significant electoral impact, I don’t know what to say. This has literally been known for centuries in politics. Its the circuses part of bread and circuses, and the “bread” pet of that equation is also not so great due to inflation perceptions. Even Congressional Democrats are smart enough to know this which is why the bill offers six months (which in practice will be longer due to court litigation and basic enforcement logistics)

For all Atlas makes fun of political pundits for being “out of touch”, especially some of the worst offenders on this topic, I think the thread proves we have zero ground to stand on in this regard.

[It’s so Joever]

Honestly I think Biden should veto if it passes the senate. Normally I wouldn't go this route, but voters are very dumb and simple about things like this, and I can easily see this turning into a BIDEN WANTS TO BAN TIKTOK, TRUMP WANTS TO SAVE IT type nonsense thing even though the truth is much more complex than that

Yeah, as I've said I don't care at all about the app, it takes the parts of Instagram and Snapchat I dislike, combining them into mindlessness. Still, really not worth banning if it's gonna hurt him that much with low info voters.

I'm against the ban - how else am I gonna post outfit reels and show off my avocado toast???

But I would support getting rid of that "Oh No" song, that stock female narrator, and the tag #fyp.  If I never have to see or hear those things again, I'd be a happy PQG.  

From somewhere in cyber-heaven, Vine is getting the last laugh. 

Musk has made noise of reviving it, but honestly a Musk run tik tok sounds like hell

He should call it MuskRAT. 

The #fyp tag probably isn’t all that helpful anyways for viewership. While I can’t reliably say for sure, I think it’s better to tailor tags to your niche for engagement. Even a more targeting modified fyp probably is better imo. For instance if you make cooking content, something like #cookingfyp at least.

[GeneralMacArthur]

If y’all don’t think the government arbitrarily banning an app

You guys really need to come up with a better way to argue if you're going to convince anyone.  It's not arbitrary.  The reasons for banning TikTok are extremely clear.  We've spent eight pages of this thread talking about them.  We've spent nearly six years talking about them.  We've had Congressional hearings on this subject.

The full text of the bill is here.  https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521/text

There are only four countries it applies to.  The bill specifically references Title 10, Section 4872(d)(2) which reads:

(A)the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea;
(B)the People’s Republic of China;
(C)the Russian Federation; and
(D)the Islamic Republic of Iran.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/4872

can we all agree that if Iran or North Korea were to make an app that became wildly popular in America, and they used it to harvest data on Americans that they could then use to manipulate American public opinion, that would be a really bad thing and it should be banned?

The main app I could see also getting banned under this bill is VKontakte, the social media app controlled by the Russian government.  But it is not popular at all in America so the president probably wouldn't bother deeming it a national security risk.

[It’s so Joever]

If y’all don’t think the government arbitrarily banning an app

You guys really need to come up with a better way to argue if you're going to convince anyone.  It's not arbitrary.  The reasons for banning TikTok are extremely clear.  We've spent eight pages of this thread talking about them.  We've spent nearly six years talking about them.  We've had Congressional hearings on this subject.

The full text of the bill is here.  https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521/text

There are only four countries it applies to.  The bill specifically references Title 10, Section 4872(d)(2) which reads:

(A)the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea;
(B)the People’s Republic of China;
(C)the Russian Federation; and
(D)the Islamic Republic of Iran.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/4872

can we all agree that if Iran or North Korea were to make an app that became wildly popular in America, and they used it to harvest data on Americans that they could then use to manipulate American public opinion, that would be a really bad thing and it should be banned?

The main app I could see also getting banned under this bill is VKontakte, the social media app controlled by the Russian government.  But it is not popular at all in America so the president probably wouldn't bother deeming it a national security risk.

And yet no actual hard evidence to support the claims. The logic is “it might be possible” and no matter how much you try to spin, that’s not going to make voters hate your policy any less.
Electric Circus and others have already responded well to you on why your demands are unrealistic (which you have ignored because you know you don’t have a good response) I’m not even going to bother on that. All I will say is, I hope you don’t complain and blame Bernie Sanders or whoever your new scapegoat is when your own bills cause you to lose in November.

And even your first sentence, “y’all are going to have to try hard to convince” no, we don’t. We don’t need to convince anyone. Millions of people will wake up to a major part of their daily life stripped away because of direct action by Biden (and for once they would be right to fault the president) Its up to your side to convince the voters why this is needed. You make the unpopular change, you must be the ones to convince. Your arrogance is concerning.

[It’s so Joever]

Anyways if GMac, DaleCooper, and BRTD want to go on a tiktok is bad and all the users are sheeple brainwashed by China circlejerk, that’s totally fine. Whatever makes them feel superior. However I do hope they are at least intelligent enough to realize why that’s not going to convince anyone nor why their ideas would backfire electorally. The only good news for Atlas Dems is that the writers of this bill had enough brain cells to make the most damaging parts of it only happen after the election in practice.

[Beet]

It's amazing that a forum that skews towards young people is so supportive of a TikTok ban. Just remember, that by supporting the TikTok ban you

1. Don't believe in the First Amendment and freedom of speech. "The CCP" you like to demonize is responsible for exactly none of the viral content on TikTok, your fellow citizens are
2. Are carrying water for Mark Zuckerberg, who is one of the hidden hands behind this legislation as the main beneficiary.
3. Are carrying water for the FBI and NSA to gain additional surveillance capabilities and authority. I've never heard of anyone going to jail over VPN use in China and Mark Warner wants to hand out 20 year prison sentences for that.

Looks like blind anti-China hate and jingoism has corrupted your minds. Maybe one day you'll wake up and realize that and regret that you supported policies that are in total opposition to your ideals.

Edit: No, Bytedance will not divest from TikTok. We won't let it happen. You won't pry TikTok out of our cold dead hands, you'll have to ban it and suffer the consequences.

     The CCP doesn't put the content on there, but it blesses the algorithm that promotes it and rots the brains of American youth, and it's not a secret that the TikTok equivalent that is used in China shows very different content. While there are important free expression concerns that need to be addressed, TikTok is an information warfare vector that the Chinese government is using to inflict severe long-term damage on the United States. If we cannot effectively answer this, then our defeat is a fait accompli. This goes far deeper than TikTok, but that is a basic litmus test that we need to pass if the survival of the nation is to be a realistic outcome.

The correct answer is to regulate the algorithim and the content. The Chinese version of TikTok, Douyin, shows much the same content, but a little different not because of some weird conspiracy, but because the Chinese government enacted regulations, on what kind of content the app could promote, also putting in a 40 minute time limit for minors. By the way, those regulations apply to all apps in China, not just one. TikTok has a parent mode in the US that does largely the same thing.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/03/08/1069527/china-tiktok-douyin-teens-privacy/

Essentially, all the supposed harms of this app could be addressed by regulation that gives auditing and oversight of the algorithm, data, to US officials and third parties, as well as adding data privacy requirements and encouraging use of features like parent mode that are within First Amendment allowances. There is no need to remove literally billions of videos, likes, comments, and so on, generated by Americans, in the biggest government takedown of free speech in US history. This would be an ideological victory for the CCP, which is not to be underestimated. After all, the reason we won the original Cold War was because ideologically, freedom and capitalism came to be seen as more appealing systems by the world at large from the 1960s to the 1980s. Similarly, if we want to survive as a free nation and one more appealing to the world, we need to hold tighter to our ideals and not give them up.

Further, on the same day the House Energy & Commerce Committee passes this bill 50-0, they tabled a bill that would have stopped data brokers from selling Americans' data. If they are s concerned about protecting our data, why would they do that? Not to speak of the fact that while they are adamant about the equivalent of the death penalty for TikTok, they have zero concern for enacting any regulation that would address the harms of social media in general.

So none of their supposed concerns require a ban or divestment to solve and there's no evidence any privacy or data concerns would even be solved by a ban. But whenever critics of this bill point that out, the supporters keep going back to ignoring it and repeating the same talking points "blah blah CCP threat". Almost as if there are other motives out there for the ban/divestment besides what's stated. The supporters can't even get straight whether it's a ban or not, one moment they say it's not a ban and the next moment they say "the ban" can't be challenged. But the text of the bill clearly contains language that would prohibit the app, as well as give the government power to ban foreign hosted websites.

[All Along The Watchtower]

The correct answer is to regulate the algorithim and the content.

snip:

Essentially, all the supposed harms of this app could be addressed by regulation that gives auditing and oversight of the algorithm, data, to US officials and third parties, as well as adding data privacy requirements and encouraging use of features like parent mode that are within First Amendment allowances.

I’m sure this would be enthusiastically welcomed by American social media companies.

Further, on the same day the House Energy & Commerce Committee passes this bill 50-0, they tabled a bill that would have stopped data brokers from selling Americans' data. If they are s concerned about protecting our data, why would they do that? Not to speak of the fact that while they are adamant about the equivalent of the death penalty for TikTok, they have zero concern for enacting any regulation that would address the harms of social media in general.

oh

[OSR stands with Israel]

Given China bans our tech companies , why should any tech company of theirs be allowed in our country . There is absolutely nothing wrong with engaging in Tit for Tat practices